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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / March 2006Great 1971 Mercedes 220.... need engine help..
Recently acquired a great 1971 220 stored in a barn for 17 years. Interior, exterior, underside... all perfect but with one little problem. The motor is shot, or at least thats what I was told. I want to get it back on its wheels again. Are there any other engine options I have that will fit in that car. Will a diesel fit? has anyone done an american swap? ford 289 or smaller V6? this car is wayy to cool and in to good a shape to let go on to the scrapyard. what are my options? jake >Recently acquired a great 1971 220 stored in a barn for 17 years. Interior, >exterior, underside... all perfect but with one little problem. The motor is >shot, or at least thats what I was told. I want to get it back on its wheels >again. Are there any other engine options I have that will fit in that car. >Will a diesel fit? has anyone done an american swap? ford 289 or smaller V6? Don't even think about it. A proper V8 conversion is amazingly complexz IF you plan on having everything work - the deatils, such as the speedo etc, will absolutley kill you. Figure 10K to do it right. That car is a 114 chassis. A 4 cyl 240D or 5 cyl 300D motor will however more or less "drop right in". In 1977 that chassis was sold as a one year only 5 cyl non-turbo diesel. In other years it was the 240D. 240D's are pretty sloooow.  SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net Bastardizing this otherwise good car will kill its resale value - so don't install anything but another 2.2L motor - or rebuild this one. M-B has a "classic parts department" for those items that you just can't find anywhere else. So don't give up on the original engine. You can also buy a short block and have essentially a new motor for a few thousand dollars. http://www.mercedesengines.net/products.asp?cat=12 So, determine the car's value as if it were running and deduct half the estimated cost of renewing the motor and that's what this dead car is truly worth - to you or the next guy who wants one of these 220s. (Half because you'll have a 100% motor that will be worth more than the average 220's motor.) At the end of the project you'll have a car with character that's powered by a reliable motor. You also might want to check Adsit.com ( a mercedes after market supplier) to see if they have a rebuilt 220 engine. Before jumping to another engine it would be prudent to KNOW what's wrong with the one in the car!! Start with the very basics like a compression test, then spark fuel etc. Well.. its been sitting for 17 years. I think that alone is a big problem but ill definately check. I hope its something as simple as the timing chain. How cool would that be. Is this car really worth spending the money on? Ive been seeing them, running, that arent worth much. Not like its a top of the line 280 or something, those look good and are worth the time and money.. jake > Well.. its been sitting for 17 years. I think that alone is a big problem > but ill definately check. I hope its something as simple as the timing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > running, that arent worth much. Not like its a top of the line 280 or > something, those look good and are worth the time and money.. It's not about money at that point. If you think the car is great and you would enjoy driving it, then go for it. Realize that you will be spending a bunch though. I like to say "Any a.shole with money can drive a new car. It takes a special kind of a.shole with money to drive an old one". Good Luck, Marty >Realize that you will be spending a bunch though. > >I like to say "Any a.shole with money can drive a new car. It takes a >special kind of a.shole with money to drive an old one". Some (mostely long long suffering wives of poeple with lots of semi running cars) might say "Special, as in special Olympics". SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >> Well.. its been sitting for 17 years. I think that alone is a big problem >> but ill definately check. I hope its something as simple as the timing [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I like to say "Any a.shole with money can drive a new car. It takes a > special kind of a.shole with money to drive an old one". Think you could shorten that one so it could fit on a bumper sticker? ;) Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html If everything is perfect, you should put a genuine mercedes engine in it, not a ford or chrysler or chev....You'll be happier, and the car will retain a better value if, by chance, you would ever want to sell it. By the way, you did check for mice, right? > Recently acquired a great 1971 220 stored in a barn for 17 years. > Interior, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > jake The more I think about it. Its just a 220. Not a real top of the line MB. Ive spent some time researching and it would cost lots of cash to replace the existing 2.2 and then all id have is a 4 cyl. What id like to do.... sounds crazy.... but replace the 4 with a ford 5.0 and tranny. The only gauges I care about working are ones I can add. Oil, temp, voltage. I could make the factory gas guage work and who cares how fast you are going anyway. As if i havent pissed off some purists already..... I plan on either putting a sliding ragtop in it or removing the top alltogether. Maybe putting in a bikini top or safari top.... just to keep the sun out. Found this for sale on craigslist... sweet.. http://dallas.craigslist.org/car/123733251.html thoughts? jake >The more I think about it. Its just a 220. Not a real top of the line MB. >Ive spent some time researching and it would cost lots of cash to replace [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >thoughts? "Whud the fuuuuuuuck is THAT ?!?" Factory cabriolets have different structural makeup than sedans, the roof is structural. There are gas v6 and v8 MB's running around, they can be made to work but the roof removal is not the most sound of ideas. If you find and hang out with the Ponton people you can probably sweet talk somebody into an engine for peanuts. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net A garden ornament? DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > "Whud the fuuuuuuuck is THAT ?!?" [...] Who are the pontoon people... and where do start looking. If I can get a factory 2.2 then im more inclined to keep the whole thing stock or at the very least put in a sliding ragtop. If I have to go the route of a ford v8 then I might as well make it a fantasy island car out of it. remember those things with the canvas roof...... jaek >Who are the pontoon people... and where do start looking. If I can get a >factory 2.2 then im more inclined to keep the whole thing stock or at the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >fantasy island car out of it. remember those things with the canvas >roof...... I can't remebr whre they hang out or even if this car is ponton but I promise you someplace some guy has a yard full of engines that he'll giove you one cheap just to see a great car back together again. It's gonna take you some time and many phone calls but this is how the hard core (and very, uh frugal) MB hobbyists do it :-) Start googling 220s. Youi might try calling Drew at Heritage woodworks and tell him I sent you and tell him what you ant to do. he's one of tghe best connected guys in MB jalopy mafia. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net > The more I think about it. Its just a 220. Not a real top of the line MB. > Ive spent some time researching and it would cost lots of cash to replace [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > thoughts? The thing is, that if you take the time and effort to properly rebuild the car, in the end you will have a nice car. If you put a a 5L ford in it, when you are done you will have scrap. Marty Most of us purists don't consider anything less than the 300 class to be one to purchase, anyway. > The more I think about it. Its just a 220. Not a real top of the line MB. > Ive spent some time researching and it would cost lots of cash to replace [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > jake >Most of us purists don't consider anything less than the 300 class to be one >to purchase, anyway. Speak for yourself. Any great old Benz is a great old Benz. it is fair to say there is less of a market for less luxurious models though. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net Actually, I am speaking for most people that I know who own benzs'. I, and they, don't consider the "baby" benzs', the early 190s C class, to be up to the standards of mercedes. You can disagree if you want, that is your right, but the real reason those smaller and cheaper benzs came about was to take advantage of the market for young buyers who didn't have 50k or more to drop on a car. From my perspective, I didn't agree with that decision, but it wasn't my decision to make. Just as I don't agree with Jaquar and Porsche coming out with SUVs--it's just wrong, but, you may have your opinions on that as well. It's similar to Porsche. A purist would never consider any model but the 911. At least not the 928, 944, et al. Some years back, when Porsche wanted to update the look on the 911 and install square headlights in their new models, there was such an uproar from their customers (people who were dropping 80k and up on new ones) that they stayed with the round headlights. I'm not sure, but I think the 911's still have round lights. >>Most of us purists don't consider anything less than the 300 class to be >>one [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > say > there is less of a market for less luxurious models though. 1) 190s are not C-Class. 2) The 190 was developed in response to the sharp oil price hikes of the early/mid-seventies and a perceived view that many customers would want to trade 'down' to more fuel-economic and maybe even cheaper cars. By the time they were launched things had changed and they were in fact 'just' a lower-priced entry model to the Merc range. The late 190s (production ended autumn 1993 approx) had very little in common with the early models except looks. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- > Actually, I am speaking for most people that I know who own benzs'. I, > and they, don't consider the "baby" benzs', the early 190s C class, to be [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > or more to drop on a car. From my perspective, I didn't agree with that > decision, but it wasn't my decision to make. [...] >1) 190s are not C-Class. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >The late 190s (production ended autumn 1993 approx) had very little in >common with the early models except looks. The 190s were made in a different factory and there were, uh, issues. Can't say they're bad cars though. Jsut stock up on windows parts. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >>The late 190s (production ended autumn 1993 approx) had very little in >>common with the early models except looks. > >The 190s were made in a different factory and there were, uh, issues. > >Can't say they're bad cars though. Jsut stock up on windows parts. direct comparison between my '93 190e and '89 300e in short is: direct comparison betwen my '93 190e (220k km) and '89 300e (250k km): 190e - problems with driveshaft bearing & flexdisk windows cracked in two places not from rocks.... just on their own rear differential has lots of play ... clunking a/c hose shift bushing 300e - a/c evaporator cheers, guenter >> 1) 190s are not C-Class. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Can't say they're bad cars though. Jsut stock up on windows parts. ??? Hope I am not jinxing myself, but my windows work fine. 20 years old and 125K miles. > 1) 190s are not C-Class. They certainly appear to be quite similar to me... Especially the C230 ;~) Marty >> 1) 190s are not C-Class. > They certainly appear to be quite similar to me... Especially the C230 > ;~) > > Marty I actually seem to remember people referring to them as the C class. You had your E class, your S class, so it wasn't a stretch to call a 190 a C class. Perhaps it wasn't formal mercedes benz jargon, but there it is. Of course, to booste sales, the number 190 was enlarged to, I think, 220? 240? No matter, I wouldn't consider it as a viable purchase myself. Perhaps part of the reason they arent (weren't) as dependable was that they were not made in Germany. Call me a benz snob, but I only buy benzs made in Germany. >>> 1) 190s are not C-Class. >> They certainly appear to be quite similar to me... Especially the C230 ;~) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > dependable was that they were not made in Germany. Call me a benz > snob, but I only buy benzs made in Germany. They were made in germany you ignorant snob. >>>> 1) 190s are not C-Class. >>> They certainly appear to be quite similar to me... Especially the C230 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > They were made in germany you ignorant snob. No, I don't think the baby benzs, as we referred to them, were. Maybe some of the parts were, but I believe they were assembled in the States. But you are definitely the type who, when can't back up an argument with facts, resorts to name calling. So, since you set the ground rules, I'll fire one back....f.ck you too, a.shole. There, now don't we both feel all better now? Another reason small children should not be allowed around a computer. >>> Perhaps part of the reason they arent (weren't) as dependable was that >>> they were not made in Germany. Call me a benz snob, but I only buy benzs [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >back....f.ck you too, a.shole. There, now don't we both feel all better >now? Dude, they really were made in Germany. The first MB you could buy in the US that wasn't was US delivery MLs whihc were made in Alabama. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >>>> Perhaps part of the reason they arent (weren't) as dependable was that >>>> they were not made in Germany. Call me a benz snob, but I only buy [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > buy in the US that wasn't was US delivery MLs whihc were made in > Alabama. Well, that was a more reasonable response, and one I can appreciate. I don't respond well to insults. But, ok. I've read enough of your posts to believe that you've probably forgotten more than I know about benzs, and I am only on my third one now. And I remember that about the M's, too...look like a reebok sneaker. >> Dude, they really were made in Germany. The first MB you could >> buy in the US that wasn't was US delivery MLs whihc were made in [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >am only on my third one now. And I remember that about the M's, too...look >like a reebok sneaker. You're right in theroy but wrong on details. Real MB's were made in the, uh, Sindfelden (sp?) factoty by Germans. 190's were made at some other factory primarily by Turkish immigrnts. There were morale problems ande they didn't love the cars the way the Germans did, national pride and all. They suffered quality problems because of this and on top of being "built to cost" was a bit of an issue. This is what I've heard anyway, I don't really know how true it is but I keep hearing the same story. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts ? - http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home page: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >>> Dude, they really were made in Germany. The first MB you could >>> buy in the US that wasn't was US delivery MLs whihc were made in [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > This is what I've heard anyway, I don't really know how true it > is but I keep hearing the same story. I'd always heard that they were made somewhere other than Stuttgart, Germany, myself. |
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