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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / June 2006

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Diesel Secret?

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MB - 07 Jun 2006 01:13 GMT
I found this website for a fuel additive call Diesel Secret
(www.dieselsecret.com) The company claims that you just add the additive to
the vegetable oil and it produces usable fuel. Has anybody had experience
with this working?
jdoe - 07 Jun 2006 04:01 GMT
>I found this website for a fuel additive call Diesel Secret
>(www.dieselsecret.com) The company claims that you just add the additive to
>the vegetable oil and it produces usable fuel. Has anybody had experience
>with this working?

you don't need an additive, you can just run the veggie oil

WARNING: NEVER USE 1800FLOWERS.COM
They can't deliver as promised
MB - 07 Jun 2006 14:42 GMT
Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip over
switch...bringing the cost to around $1000. Diesel Secret claims you can
just mix in their additive to a batch of veg oil and in 5 minutes, you have
a usable diesel batch.

>>I found this website for a fuel additive call Diesel Secret
>>(www.dieselsecret.com) The company claims that you just add the additive
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> WARNING: NEVER USE 1800FLOWERS.COM
> They can't deliver as promised
trader4@optonline.net - 07 Jun 2006 15:15 GMT
> Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
> into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip over
> switch...bringing the cost to around $1000. Diesel Secret claims you can
> just mix in their additive to a batch of veg oil and in 5 minutes, you have
> a usable diesel batch.

The need for the switch over system is at lower temps at which WVO will
start to gel, while normal diesel fuel is good down to around 0F.

If you look at the Q/A section of the companies website, it says the
fuel produced using their additive in the std concentration (46Cents
gallon)  works down to just below freezing.  I'm not sure how much
lower this is than just straight WVO.   They do say that more of the
additive can be added to get to the lower temp range of regular diesel,
but it's curious that they don't say how much has to be added or what
the cost becomes.  If it takes 46c to get to just below freezing, it's
possible it could cost a whole lot more to make this fuel practical in
many parts of the country.

I guess what is most disturbing is they just avoid this whole
discussion, which would seem to be very critical to what the product
really can do.

Also, there seems to be widespread agreement that WVO will cause many
regular fuel hoses to dissolve and leak, requiring them to be replaced
with ones that are impervious to WVO.   I find it hard to believe that
their additive avoids that, yet they claim that absolutely no mods are
necessary.
Nihil - 07 Jun 2006 16:03 GMT
>>Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>>into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip over
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> their additive avoids that, yet they claim that absolutely no mods are
> necessary.

Having read their q/a section, it seems that one additive that is needed
is petroleum. I have a 320cdi engine and when the car was approximately
1 year old I accidentally put 1 litre of petroleum in with the diesel.
Some time afterwards the injector pump started to disintegrate and shed
metal particles into the injectors making the engine run rough. I had to
replace the tank, pump, injectors and fuel lines. Mercedes said it was a
consequence of the petroleum eating the lining of the pump. Of course it
is possible that Mercedes was covering for a faulty pump.
MB - 07 Jun 2006 17:28 GMT
Wow, that seems somewhat severe damage for just adding 1 litre of petro in
with diesel. If the injectors and pump shredded like that, I am surprised
you didn't have piston damage as well. Here in the U.S., the pump nozzle
sizes are different for petro vs. diesel with the diesel nozzle being bigger
so it is virtually impossible to put diesel in a petro tank but not so
impossible to petro in a diesel tank.

>>>Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>>>into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> consequence of the petroleum eating the lining of the pump. Of course it
> is possible that Mercedes was covering for a faulty pump.
Nihil - 07 Jun 2006 17:40 GMT
> Wow, that seems somewhat severe damage for just adding 1 litre of petro in
> with diesel. If the injectors and pump shredded like that, I am surprised
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
>>consequence of the petroleum eating the lining of the pump. Of course it
>>is possible that Mercedes was covering for a faulty pump.

I apologise for this becomming off thread topic but MB's contribution is
useful to me. I really think a Mercedes car should be more robust than
to break with such a small contaminant in the fuel. After all, I thought
nothing about it because my previous car *recommended* putting a small
amount of petrol in with the diesel in cold weather. I am really
suspicious of Mercedes trying to pin the blame other than on their
choice of fragile pump.

Going back to topic, I would like to know whether the petrol is actually
present in Dieselsecret's converted oil or whether it is removed. Has
somebody actually tried it and can tell of the process involved in
conversion?
cp - 09 Jun 2006 06:28 GMT
> I apologise for this becomming off thread topic but MB's contribution is
> useful to me. I really think a Mercedes car should be more robust than
> to break with such a small contaminant in the fuel. After all, I thought
> nothing about it because my previous car *recommended* putting a small
> amount of petrol in with the diesel in cold weather.

Up to 30% gasoline in cold weather.

cp
Richard Sexton - 15 Jun 2006 17:48 GMT
>Wow, that seems somewhat severe damage for just adding 1 litre of petro in
>with diesel. If the injectors and pump shredded like that, I am surprised
>you didn't have piston damage as well. Here in the U.S., the pump nozzle
>sizes are different for petro vs. diesel with the diesel nozzle being bigger
>so it is virtually impossible to put diesel in a petro tank but not so
>impossible to petro in a diesel tank.

Doesn't sound right to me. Older MB diesel manuals state that in
extreme cold conditions you can run up to 50% gasoline mixed with
diesel fuel.

Signature

  Need Mercedes parts?   http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton       | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

Ernesto - 08 Jun 2006 03:41 GMT
>>>Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>>>into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
> consequence of the petroleum eating the lining of the pump. Of course it
> is possible that Mercedes was covering for a faulty pump.

Trust me, they lied to you. My wife put a half tank of gasoline into her '81
300D and drove it more than 50 miles before she suspected something was
wrong. In fact at that point the car simply wouldn't go much past idle. I
took my car carrier to the donut shop where it stopped, started it up and
drove it onto the trailer. Got home, pulled the fuel filter and noticed a
small problem....gasoline in the fuel!
After explaining to my wife that a green nozzle at the service station
doesn't necessarily mean diesel, i drained all the gasoline out, poured in
10 gallons of diesel, changed filters, pumped the hand primer pump for about
5 minutes, started it up and it has run perfect for more than two years now.
Also, I now burn altered veggie oil in both my 240D and 300D and they both
run perfect. I tried the formula sold by Diesel Secret but discovered all
the secret turned out to be was fuel stabilizer.
Here's what you do: To your filtered waste veggie oil add 10 percent low
octane gasoline, 5 percent kerosene, about 1-1/2 ounces per gallon of Diesel
Kleen (Wal-Mart) and about 1/4 ounce of fuel stabilizer (also Wal-Mart).
Make sure you let the veggie oil settle a couple of days to get water and
other debris to the bottom of your container(s). Draw off the good oil on
top and do your mixing. I have a 55-gallon drum with a large funnel-shaped
bottom which I made and welded into place with a valve at the bottom to
drain the junk.
After mixing your veggie oil and the additives pump it through three
filters, two of which are simply water filters you get at your local Lowes
or Home Depot. The first one needs to be about 15 microns, the second 3 to 5
microns and the final filter is a water trap. You can actually pump this
mixtire directly into your vehicle.
I know there are going to be people who say you need to go through the
lengthy process with lye and acid....and you can if you wish. That does
remove a lot of stuff that some think are less than good for your engine.
However, I hasten to remind the naysayers that Dr. Diesel designed his
engine to run on pure peanut oil, and that it works fine.
A couple of other things to take into consideration. Be prepared to change
your glow plugs after going through a tank or two of this mixture. Also, if
you live in a cold climate you might consider a two-tank system allowing you
to start and stop on regular petrol diesel. Whenever I face an early morning
cold start I just shoot a small amount of starter fluid into the intake of
the air filter. Some will think you crazy for doing this but I was raised on
a farm and we always used starter fluid to start our tractors in the dead of
winter even though we used nothing but petrol diesel.
Other than that recognize that veggie oil is a much better solvent than
standard diesel and will clean your fuel system like crazy. Keep spare fuel
filters on hand during the initial tank or two.
Been doing this for some time now and everything works fine. Good luck.
Nihil - 08 Jun 2006 15:58 GMT
>>>>Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>>>>into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> filters on hand during the initial tank or two.
> Been doing this for some time now and everything works fine. Good luck.

Just a note to Ernesto to say that I think the pump in the CDI engines
is very different to the older engines he describes and that it is quite
possible for the cdi engine's pump to be damaged by petroleum, or at
least that is what I have been told.
You smiled, you spoke, and I believed - 08 Jun 2006 16:37 GMT
>>>>>Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>>>>>into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip
[quoted text clipped - 84 lines]
> possible for the cdi engine's pump to be damaged by petroleum, or at
> least that is what I have been told.

well, I have a'79 MB 240d w 200k miles.

The distributer put gasoline in the diesel tank at the gas station.  I
filled my tank, about 1/2 gas and diesel, and drove about 70 miles
before it died and wouldn't start.

The mechanic said the old pump saved the engine, since it would not pump
the gasoline, too thin.

Gas station paid for towing and all repairs.

Actually runs better w new filters etc.

j.
Ernesto - 10 Jun 2006 04:03 GMT
>>>>>Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil
>>>>>directly
[quoted text clipped - 103 lines]
> possible for the cdi engine's pump to be damaged by petroleum, or at
> least that is what I have been told.

You may very well be correct. I do have a friend who burns the same mixture
in his '87 6-cyl MB diesel and it runs fine but I'm not sure this is the
same pump of which you speak. However, I also have two other friends using
the same mixture, one in a new Chevy diesel truck and the other a 3-year-old
Ford Power Stroke diesel and, aside from the Chevy owner having to change
fuel filters after a half-tank of the veggie mixture, they both run fine.
Richard Sexton - 15 Jun 2006 17:52 GMT
>A couple of other things to take into consideration. Be prepared to change
>your glow plugs after going through a tank or two of this mixture. Also, if
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>a farm and we always used starter fluid to start our tractors in the dead of
>winter even though we used nothing but petrol diesel.

Yes, but that was a vehicle that was intended to be able to handle
starting fluid, many diesels are. MB diesels ARE NOT and one day you
or somebody will crack a pre-chamber by doing this. And when that gets
sucked into your engine or turbo it'll be one of the worst days of
your life, ever.

When MB says you can use ether, you can. To date, they never have
and warn VERY STRONGLY agaist it. Sure you're getting away with it
right now but you're doing just that. Sadly your luck will not last
forever.

Signature

  Need Mercedes parts?   http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton       | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

MB - 07 Jun 2006 17:31 GMT
Well I am here in Southern California where it is very rare to get below 40
F, although it is possible. I've read that even at room temperature, WVO is
too thick to run straight from the tank so that's why the heater is
necessary.  Diesel Secret seems to focus on "thinning" out the WVO to make
it capable of running straight from the tank without the heating...which if
true, would make it easier and cheaper for me.

>> Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>> into your tank. You have to put in a second tank with heater and flip
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> their additive avoids that, yet they claim that absolutely no mods are
> necessary.
JMThompson - 07 Jun 2006 18:48 GMT
Have a look at some of the discussions in the Citroen section. Veggie oil
is discussed at length. I have a friend with 1981 250d (i think) who uses
nothing but veg oil in all weathers (UK)but in Devon  so it doesnt often
drop below freezing point but if it does he just adds white spirit. The
biggest problem is not how well the car runs but what happens if ther
police/customs & excise find out! By the way DONT use veg in an HDi, the
"old style" diesels are much better
cp - 09 Jun 2006 06:26 GMT
> Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly into your tank.

Oh crap, and I been driving on straight canola oil from the supermarket. Works fine. Engine should have good compression as veg oil
flash point is higher

cp
Ernesto - 10 Jun 2006 04:06 GMT
>> Well, from all that I have read, you can't just pour the veg oil directly
>> into your tank.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> cp

I'm sure this works fine. However, in cold climates (not like here in S.
Cal), you might have to boost the cetane rating a little. If I lived in a
cold climate I'd simply hook up a second small tank with straight petro
diesel to start and stop the engine although a warm engine should start
fine.....like after a run to the grocery store, etc.
knucklebuster - 12 Jun 2006 23:31 GMT
I joined the secret society with no regrets.  While I'm not convinced
the "secret" additive is neccessary, I'm glad thw product got me
thinking of reactor/methanol/lye - free biodiesel.
The "Secret" looks like gasoline & smells like naptha.
Here's the receipe: Kerosene (10% of the amount of oil you're using)
                           Regular Unleaded gasoline (5%)
                           Diesel-Kleen+Cetane Boost(0.63%)
                           "Diesel Secret"(0.16%)

e.g: 5gals. filtered waste oil + 0.5gals. kerosene + 1quart unleaded
gasolene + 4oz Cetane + 0.8oz "secret.

That's right, less than an ounce "secret"  for 5 gals oil. Residing in
California, I stopped using the secret 10k miles ago, & don't watch
portions carefully.  Generally, I batch veggie oil to DinoDiesel about
5:1.  If batch is too thick, she chugs a bit, so I add diesel or cetane
& all's well.  No matter what anyone says,
handling/filtering/tansferring oil is messy, even under the best
conditions, but it's definitely worth it.

> I found this website for a fuel additive call Diesel Secret
> (www.dieselsecret.com) The company claims that you just add the additive to
> the vegetable oil and it produces usable fuel. Has anybody had experience
> with this working?
 
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