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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / June 2006

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Premium or regular gasoline?

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James O'Riley - 29 Jun 2006 01:33 GMT
Premium being so high I'd like to use a lower grade.  Seems I read
somewhere that as long as you keep the revs and power level down you can
use regular.  Comments please.
jdoe - 29 Jun 2006 02:51 GMT
>Premium being so high I'd like to use a lower grade.  Seems I read
>somewhere that as long as you keep the revs and power level down you can
>use regular.  Comments please.
what year car? the newer ones have knock sensors that allow you to use
lower grades of fuel, but your performance and mpg will take a hit
James O'Riley - 29 Jun 2006 03:40 GMT
>> Premium being so high I'd like to use a lower grade.  Seems I read
>> somewhere that as long as you keep the revs and power level down you can
>> use regular.  Comments please.
> what year car? the newer ones have knock sensors that allow you to use
> lower grades of fuel, but your performance and mpg will take a hit

It's a 2002 E-320.  I ran about half a tank and made sure I stayed below
about 3500 RPM but occasionally by foot got heavy we went varrroommmm.
In town I got 18 mpg and 28 on the road.  If that's taking a hit I
wonder what it would be like with high test in the tank.  ;-)

Thanks for the reply...
T.G. Lambach - 29 Jun 2006 07:23 GMT
Premium fuel ignites at higher temperatures and so avoids preignition.

Try mid grade if your engine's compression ratio is less than 10:1.

Try mid grade when the ambient temperature is low.

Use premium in very hot weather and if the motor's compression ratio is
10:1 or higher.

Modern engines have knock sensors that retard the engine's ignition to
avoid knocking or pinging - that causes some performance loss and lower
mileage so the savings of cheaper fuel are not as great as you may believe.

IMHO high revs don't matter but lugging the motor will cause it to knock
- that's about the worst one can do.
James O'Riley - 29 Jun 2006 11:40 GMT
> Premium fuel ignites at higher temperatures and so avoids preignition.
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> IMHO high revs don't matter but lugging the motor will cause it to knock
> - that's about the worst one can do.

Thanks friend, that's very complete and easy to understand.  I've saved
a copy so I can refer to it again.
trader4@optonline.net - 29 Jun 2006 13:36 GMT
> > Premium fuel ignites at higher temperatures and so avoids preignition.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Thanks friend, that's very complete and easy to understand.  I've saved
> a copy so I can refer to it again.

While I agree with the theory behind the effects of different octane
fuel, personally, I'd RTFM and use the minimum octane the manufacturer
recommends, with or without knock sensors.
greek_philosophizer - 29 Jun 2006 15:41 GMT
> > > Premium fuel ignites at higher temperatures and so avoids preignition.
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> fuel, personally, I'd RTFM and use the minimum octane the manufacturer
> recommends, with or without knock sensors.

On the other hand, the percentage difference in cost between low and
high grade
has significantly diminished with the general price increases so you do
not really
pay that much more.

For example when gas was one dollar and premium was one dollar twenty
cents the premium was 20 percent. Now that it is 3 dollars and premium
is three dollars and
twenty cents the percentage increase is only about seven percent.

So where I live, premium is not that much more and so it is not that
bad a purchase.

.
James O'Riley - 29 Jun 2006 18:47 GMT
>>>> Premium fuel ignites at higher temperatures and so avoids preignition.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> So where I live, premium is not that much more and so it is not that
> bad a purchase.

I realized that after the last fillup.  I save $2.50 on 10 gallons of
mid-grade fuel.  That was really foolish!  ;-)

I also realize that it's not all that expensive either compared to the
cost in Calfornia in the '50s or even now.  And engines are much more
efficient.  In 1959 my Ford got 16 mpg on the highway, this 'old' 2002
MB gets 28!

I just found that Subaru is bragging about gas mileage being 28 and
costs $35,000, again this 'old' 2002 cost me $25,000 2 months ago and
gets the same mileage, and a MUCH better overall warrantee including
road assistance virtually FOREVER!  :-D
Dori A Schmetterling - 30 Jun 2006 15:48 GMT
Too much like common sense:
- RTFM
- follow manufacturer's advice.

Common sense does not get you far in usenet...

DAS
Signature

For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

[...]

> While I agree with the theory behind the effects of different octane
> fuel, personally, I'd RTFM and use the minimum octane the manufacturer
> recommends, with or without knock sensors.
Ernesto - 30 Jun 2006 05:06 GMT
> Premium fuel ignites at higher temperatures and so avoids preignition.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> IMHO high revs don't matter but lugging the motor will cause it to knock -
> that's about the worst one can do.

T.G. I almost always agree with your advice but knocking, or pre-ignition,
occurs because the air/fuel mixture does not burn quick enough. A low-tech
but brief explanation of what happens is this. Premium fuel has a lower
flash point, thus burns more rapidly. When a lower octane fuel is introduced
into a cylinder under certain conditions the air/fuel mixture burns slower
and can pre-ignite.

As the piston moves upward compressing the mixture the spark plug ignites
the mixture right at the plug itself, this actually occurring before the
piston reaches TDC. As the flame front begins moving spherically from the
point of ignition the expanding gases begin driving the piston down in the
cylinder. However, another process is also taking place, namely the
compression of the remaining air/fuel mixture which has yet to ignite and
help continue the downward force on the piston.

If this remaining air/fuel mixture is not of adequate octane the mixture
simply explodes from compression alone, exactly like that which occurs in a
diesel engine. This explosion creates tremendous pressures and the
resounding knock associated with the phenomena.

Two things normally can be done to reduce this effect. The first is to
retard the timing so that the ignition occurs later in the cycle, thus the
piston has moved further down in the cylinder as the flame front expands,
reducing or completely eliminating the pre-ignition event. The second is, of
course, to increase the ability of the flame front to move more rapidly by
increasing the octane rating of the fuel. Premium fuel or the addition of
octane booster will solve this problem.

A couple of additional points. First, pre-ignition creates a lot of unwanted
pressure and temperature in the cylinder. This can result in the softer
piston material wearing away rapidly. If you ever tear down an engine that
has undergone pre-ignition for a long period of time you will always note
that the damage portion of the top of the piston is furthest from the spark
plug gap. Second, the heat buildup in the cylinder because of pre-ignition
sometimes causes deposits on the top of the piston to glow red hot and
continue to provide ignition after the key has been turned off. This is
often called dieseling.

This is a somewhat lengthy explanation. Hope it was more educational than
boring. Again T.G., not to dismiss what you say but perhaps expand on it.
Tiger - 29 Jun 2006 16:27 GMT
When you said half tank... was the tank empty before you did that? If not,
your reserve premium gas raises the octane level.

Most of the time running on regular lowers the fuel mileage quite
dramatically. I had a BMW that runs on premium only... when I used 89, I
lost like 4 MPG.

Just shop for cheaper premium gas... in today's world, it makes no
difference what brand you use... they all have high detergent level and made
by same brand name company... Best cheap gas is the one that moves fast...
meaning fresh fuel.
Thom - 29 Jun 2006 18:29 GMT
> When you said half tank... was the tank empty before you did that? If not,
> your reserve premium gas raises the octane level.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> by same brand name company... Best cheap gas is the one that moves fast...
> meaning fresh fuel.

I have to agree.  I saw a dramatic increas in milage when I started
using Premium (it is 93 octane here).  My dad had the car for a year
(300E) and ran it on regular.  He complained it was sluggish and sucked
gas. (actually, it was my stepmom who complained).  I found out she was
putting in regular gas, I changed it to premium, and viola!!  Better
mileage, better power.

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