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Car Forum / Mercedes-Benz Cars / July 2006300 diesel vs. 300 turbo diesel
Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. I have found a nice 300TD wagon in Germany with low km and in lovely shape. I was looking for the TDT. I don't want the car to be dangerously slow when merging or accelerating from a stop into traffic. An associate said the non-turbo models are less prone to blowing head gaskets. Is this also true? Any general comments regarding the service / repair requirements between the two configurations. Thanks >Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a >turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. Five cylinder. >I have found a nice 300TD wagon in Germany with low km and in lovely >shape. I was looking for the TDT. I don't want the car to be dangerously [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >gaskets. Is this also true? Any general comments regarding the service / >repair requirements between the two configurations. That the turbos are les reliable goes against conventinal wisdom. Mine had 500K miles on it. I did replace the turbo for $100 (ebay) about 3 years ago - it was getting a bit noisy (but still worked fine). I'd personally go for the turbo, but I'f also probably get the non-turbo right now. It could be a while till you find one, the 123 Wagons, in rust free state are getting hard to find and people don't let go of them lightly and they seldom make it into ads. Usually when one becomea available somebody who knows the car snaps it right up.  SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >> Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a >> turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > make it into ads. Usually when one becomea available somebody > who knows the car snaps it right up. Thanks for the response! I have not been able to locate a nice 300TDT but have found this 92 300TD (registered in 91) The 300TD I have found is the 6 cylinder diesel (not the 5) the car has less than 150K Km on the clock and is in excellent shape. I would prefer the turbo as I am concerned about the power while pulling into traffic here in Vancouver. Since the car is in Germany I won't be able to drive it before purchase (have an associate - mechanic looking at it). Was hoping to determine if the car is gutless without the turbo... Can one add a turbo onto the non turbo engine or is it more trouble than it would be worth? > The 300TD I have found is the 6 cylinder diesel (not the 5) the car has > less than 150K Km on the clock and is in excellent shape. I would prefer According to reliable sources at least 30 per cent of all used cars in Germany have manipulated odometers. > the turbo as I am concerned about the power while pulling into traffic > here in Vancouver. The worse the driver the more hp he needs. > Since the car is in Germany I won't be able to drive it before purchase > (have an associate - mechanic looking at it). Was hoping to determine if > the car is gutless without the turbo... What do you expect? What do you drive now? > Can one add a turbo onto the non turbo engine or is it more trouble than > it would be worth? The latter. Juergen >> The 300TD I have found is the 6 cylinder diesel (not the 5) the car has >> less than 150K Km on the clock and is in excellent shape. I would prefer [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Juergen I currently drive (and will be keeping) an 05 Toyota Tundra D/C 4x4 (~300hp). The car is for my wife to commute to work and for us to drive around town. I am not looking for a race car, rather a reliable, diesel, car that is safe and comfortable and reasonably efficient. I have had 2 diesel land cruisers in the past both were fine (not race cars). >>> The 300TD I have found is the 6 cylinder diesel (not the 5) the car has >>> less than 150K Km on the clock and is in excellent shape. I would prefer [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I have had 2 diesel land cruisers in the past both were fine (not race > cars). I have a 90HP 250D (non turbo) w124 and I think it does quite well in traffic. It's not fast but it keeps up well enough. Because of the automatic (rare in Holland) I beat most other cars and the green light without even tryin. The 300D should be a lot better even. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html For an American anything under 350 PS is gutless (in these car NGs anyway)... ;-). Many people drive cars with relatively modest power output and I drove a W123 200D for two years. 60 PS and a weight of 1400 kg. I don't recollect it ever being "dangerous" in traffic. Sure it's nice to have more power, but that is different to "danger". Just adjust your driving style and don't try to win the traffic lights grand prix. Defensive driving. It's much safer anyway. DAS For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling --- [...] > Thanks for the response! > I have not been able to locate a nice 300TDT but have found this 92 300TD [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Can one add a turbo onto the non turbo engine or is it more trouble than > it would be worth? >Thanks for the response! >I have not been able to locate a nice 300TDT but have found this 92 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >the turbo as I am concerned about the power while pulling into traffic >here in Vancouver. Oh, it's a 124. I don't think there were any non-turbo diesel wagons but you learn something new everyday. >Since the car is in Germany I won't be able to drive it before purchase >(have an associate - mechanic looking at it). Was hoping to determine if >the car is gutless without the turbo... Probably not but I really don't know. >Can one add a turbo onto the non turbo engine or is it more trouble than >it would be worth? Yes and yes. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net > >Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a > >turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. > Five cylinder. Note he wrote > I have found a nice 300TD wagon in Germany with low km and in lovely and > turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. so I think he talks about a W124 (ok, S124 to be precise...) with 6-cyl inline engine, OM 603, 109/113 PS for the non-Turbo and 143/147 PS for the Turbo. Both are no race-cars as of today, but the Turbo perfectly blending in today's traffic, the non-Turbo a slight bit slow in the eyes of some. Personally I'd avoid the Turbo: Added complexity to the system, so in the long run a non-Turbo is more troublefree, means more reliable and thus cheaper to run. Also in their time - which is 1986 to 1996 - the Turbo was one of the fastest Diesels available and there was a tendency that poeople choose the Turbo over a gasoline car only due to fuel cost, but avoided the non-Turbo because of - in their mind - insufficient power: That means Turbos tend to have been driven harder than non-Turbos. I _strongly_ advise to have the car checked prior to buying at e.g. German Automobile Club ADAC (or TUEV/DEKRA/GTUE used car check). The T-models do have electrical tailgate closing (often not working properly) as well as a hydropneumatic rear axle, also the tailgate may have rust; all other problems like ignition lock or windshield wiper system are the same as with the sedans. Juergen - W123 240D sedan auto Euro w/72 PS >Personally I'd avoid the Turbo: Added complexity to the system, >so in the long run a non-Turbo is more troublefree, means more >reliable and thus cheaper to run. Yes, the 6 is a whole diferent animal from the 5, the 5 cyl engine is purely mechanical. Disconnect the battery and alternator and it will still run. Not so the 6, it has electornics and they ar non-trivial and while, in a sense, any idiot can handle a turbo 5 the 6 turbo or non turbo doesn't really givethe shadetree mechnanic as much of a fighting chance as the 5 did. I would not sweat the lack of a turbo on this engine. SignatureNeed Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org 1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net 633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net >>Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a >>turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. > > Five cylinder. He's talking about a 1991 model. cp >> Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a >> turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 cyl) diesel. > > Five cylinder. The German (and Dutch) 300's are six cylinders AFAIK. Ximinez SignatureOur three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency... and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/paulfitz/spanish/t1.html > Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 > cyl) diesel. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > An associate said the non-turbo models are less prone to blowing head gaskets. Is this also true? Any general comments regarding > the service / repair requirements between the two configurations. Make sure you give it a thorough washing underneath, especially the wheel wells. US customs (assuming you're bringing it through Tacoma) can be very anal about this. If you don't know of anyone good to go for an inspection when you get back email me kp6b70 at gmail dot com and I'll give you a guy that my dad uses. Whatever you do don't bring it to a Canadian Tire or some franchise shop, unless you know the people. You shipping from Bremerhaven? Notice how the car drives on Euro diesel, you'll notice a difference in how it drives on our diesel here. cp >> Any opinions of the relative power / performance differences between a turbo model and a non turbo model. Both with the 300 (6 >> cyl) diesel. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > cp Thanks CP! I will likely be in touch when the car arrives. You mentioned you knew of a good local mechanic.. And yes the car will be shipped out of Bremerhaven. I am very impressed with the level of knowledge possessed by people who post in this group!! Thanks everyone! > Thanks CP! > I will likely be in touch when the car arrives. You mentioned you knew of a good local mechanic.. And yes the car will be shipped > out of Bremerhaven. Yes, the mech is quite good (he's a cop by profession though), works out of his back yard as it's more of a hobby for him, but he's really good. cp > I have found a nice 300TD wagon in Germany with low km and in lovely shape. I was looking for the TDT. I don't want the car to be > dangerously slow when merging or accelerating from a stop into traffic. Nothing to worry about. We had the same TD with non turbo (5spd though), more than enough power, unless you want to burn rubber while towing a houseboat up the Coquihalla pass. My mother drives the same car (sedan) with 5spd, 2L 4cyl engine, more than enough, pickup is very good in the 2L let alone the 3L. If 3L is enough to merge onto Autobahns it's enough to merge onto the joke we call the Trans Canada highway. cp |
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