We've got a 1984 Mayfair auto which won't select 1st gear. To go anywhere
you need to put it in 2nd then move it up to 3rd and then Drive its okay
until you slow down again or stop and then its back to 2nd again etc.
We know from the previous owner that he went down a pothole and thinks he
may have knocked the tooth out of the 1st gear selector. Does anyone know
of someone who may do Mini boxes or is there some other trick to try
first?
Thanks in advance
> We've got a 1984 Mayfair auto which won't select 1st gear. To go anywhere
> you need to put it in 2nd then move it up to 3rd and then Drive its okay
> until you slow down again or stop and then its back to 2nd again etc.
Have you had a look at the (workshop) manual?
What happens if you manually select 1st gear, or if the car is
stationary and selects 1st by itself? From your description, I get the
impression it goes nowhere, and that manually selecting 2nd forces it to
2nd and allows you to get moving?
If so, we need to find the part of the gearbox which is unique to first
gear, the thing which can fail without affecting any other gear.
There are essentially 6 "bits" in the gearbox which hold or let go at
the right times to cause the right gears:
Two clutches:
1) Forward clutch.
No forward clutch, no forward movement. Very common failure, relatively
simple to fix.
2) Top and reverse clutch.
No T&R, no 4th, no reverse. Simple enough. Rarely fails and is a bastard
to get at.
Three bands:
3) Reverse band.
4) Third gear band.
5) Second gear band.
No prizes for guessing, if a band fails, the corresponding gear doesn't
work.
6) First gear one way clutch
What do you reckon?
If you actually consult the diagnostic procedure for the auto, basically
you'll get:
No drive in first gear, automatic or manual: 17, 18.
...
17) Check freewheel support dowel bolt sheared.
18) Check the one-way clutch unit.
Whilst it's not a job for the faint hearted, neither is it absolutely
beyond the competent home mechanic, but you WILL need the manual and
somewhere clean (no draughts and dust) to do it.
> We know from the previous owner that he went down a pothole and thinks he
> may have knocked the tooth out of the 1st gear selector. Does anyone know
> of someone who may do Mini boxes or is there some other trick to try
> first?
There is no "selector" as such. It's an epicyclic gearbox, completely
different to a manual, and it engaged gears by stopping various parts of
the gearbox.
When the forward clutch is engaged, you get first gear. By engaging the
2nd or 3rd bands, the freewheel clutch freewheels and instead you get
2nd or 3rd. The top and reverse clutch causes 4th. The ONLY component
which is unique to first is the "freewheel" or "one way clutch" (same
part, two names).
If it's the dowel bolt then you won't have to pull the gear train out of
the box and it is fairly straightforward (once you've got the converter
and it's housing off the motor and box!). It's probably no worse than
removing the flywheel and housing from a manual Mini.
I would think second hand MiniMatics should be cheap enough in the UK to
get a complete motor and box from somewhere else for less pain and expense?
Graham
Longshot - 07 Jun 2004 15:16 GMT
Graham, thanks for the post. In answer to your queries, you guessed
correctly that if 1st gear is selected the car just revs and goes nowhere
also does the same in drive, as I expect the box is trying to select first
gear and the problem perpetuates itself.
With regard to "Check freewheel support dowel bolt sheared" where would
this be on the gearbox. If its located underneath the car then presumably
its fairly straightforward to jack the car up and visually inspect the
bolt. This would also appear to be consistent with the thoght about the
damage being done by going down a hole in the road. Or am I going
off-course?
Thanks again
Graham W - 07 Jun 2004 16:46 GMT
> With regard to "Check freewheel support dowel bolt sheared" where would
> this be on the gearbox.
It's 2am here, so I'm not going to write a dissertation right now, but I
will tell you it involves removing the motor and box from the car,
removing the torque converter cover, torque converter and the housing.
If you're still interested and you don't have a manual I can scan the
relevant pages of my Aussie manual (it will be the same).
Graham.
Off to bed.
Longshot - 07 Jun 2004 17:29 GMT
Graham, thanks for responding so quickly. Don't worry about the manual I
think its worth the ?7 investment to get one of our own. Cheers for the
steer in the right direction.
Sleep well
Hello everybody from Italy!
I still have a little problem with my autobox (1992 rover 998cc):
slipping in upshift from 3rd to 4th, aleatory behavior of second gear.
All these problems (as Graham kindly said replying a my old post) are
caused by low oil pressure and/or defective forward clutch, i'm still
not completely sure about the cause, just because i couldn't execute
the oil pressure check: all the gauges i found, don't fit to the
threaded pressure port, and i did not found any suitable connector.
few days ago, after a carb cleaning, my mini started to make a new
horrible noise: "grrrr-skreek" during or after a quick downshift on
stopping after hard braking. (hmmm... I've set the idle speed very
very low because i don't like the car "crawling" at idle..) Anyway,
assuming the worse scenario, i would have to replace oil pump and
forward clutch, i have factory workshop manual. Where can i get
rebuilding kit for AP transmission and OE or aftermarket oil pump? At
rover prices are very high! Thanks in advance for replies and best
regards!
Ciao
emilio
Graham W - 08 Jun 2004 12:07 GMT
> Hello everybody from Italy!
> I still have a little problem with my autobox (1992 rover 998cc):
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> horrible noise: "grrrr-skreek" during or after a quick downshift on
> stopping after hard braking.
Check your oil level. This sounds like the forward clutch slipping again
under the relatively low oil pressure at idle. It's a really nasty noise
isn't it!
> (hmmm... I've set the idle speed very
> very low because i don't like the car "crawling" at idle..)
Might actually be worth your while to set the idle speed a little higher
to increase the idle oil pressure.
> ... Anyway,
> assuming the worse scenario, i would have to replace oil pump and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Ciao
> emilio
The oil pump is similar in design to an ordinary Mini oil pump, but
physically deeper. They have ample capacity usually. The only fault I've
seen is the pressure relief valve sticking, and it would stick wide open
when the car was turned off whilst hot.
I got new friction plates for my forward clutch from the UK by mail
order in 1990. I also know of a place here in Australia who sold them
around the same time. I would think Rover should still be stocking them
in Europe, or an auto specialist should be able to get them for you.
They're not very expensive.
I suspect when you get it open it will be apparent if there is a problem
with the forward clutch, in which case the oil pump is probably OK, but
you could replace it with a second hand one out of an accident damaged
Minimatic from the wreckers if you want.
Choose an accident damaged donor car because that way you know it was
running when it was wrecked, rather than being wrecked because the
gearbox had died!