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Car Forum / MINI / August 2004Metro Engine Convertion
I have a 1 Litre mini and want to start to drive long distances, but I don't think it can handle motorway driving. I have a metro 1.3 engine in my shed and was wondering if it was worth the swop. Can anyone tell me if this is a good idea or not and if you have any experiences with this engine. Also what further things could I do with the engine in the future if I make the swap. Also whats the cost likey to be for a garage to do it (in ??? please). Cheers Stevie > I have a 1 Litre mini and want to start to drive long distances, but I > don't think it can handle motorway driving. I have a metro 1.3 engine [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cheers > Stevie Certainly worthwhile the swap, it's done often by Mini owners. It will give roughly 50% increase in power depending on the exact spec of the 2 engines. Not sure on the price to have it done, if you have the facilities its pretty much a straight swap with only a couple of minor mods doing. Check http://www.ime.org.uk/ for more info and all things mini. Or go to googles groups page and do a search for it, this group (and many others) have all the posts archived going back 8 years or so. > I have a 1 Litre mini and want to start to drive long distances, but I don't > think it can handle motorway driving. I have a metro 1.3 engine in my shed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers > Stevie Hi, This conversion is an excellent idea if you are contemplating long-distance high speed driving. The Metro engine is a good base for further tuning, and can be made to go like the proverbial sh** off a shovel! However, your insurance company may not be impressed, and may increase your premium to lottery figures or even refuse to insure you at all. As for cost of doing the conversion, how long is a piece of string? It depends in the chosen garage's hourly rate, how long it takes to do the job, and the cost of any extra parts that may be needed. It may need a diff change for the Mini, as the Metro has 12 inch wheels and you have not stated what wheel size you have. When I did the same conversion to my '66 woody, I used the 3.44: 1 diff and this worked out to be ideal, excellent acceleration, and 100mph at 6000 rpm, and was able to tow a trailer tent at 80 to 90 mph on the German autobahns. ( engine was rather tuned also) The ball is rather in your court now, but I am sure you will get some more posts on the subject. Keith definately do the swap, it'll be well worth it as most mini owners have already done this to their own mini's (mine next). The swap should be pretty well straight forward as if im not mistaken the engine mounts for the mini and metro have very few differences. If you have a 1300 engine make sure you change from points to electronic ignition, you dont get any timning probs that way (had a few MG metros and it worked every time), Stage 1 the engine and change the shocks especially at the front as the re-bound would be quite noticable, easiest way is to put GAZ or Spax adjustables on the front (or all round). If you have 10" wheels change the diff as recommended or if you can get them put the 12/13" wheels on the mini from the Metro (just for the looks)... Regards and good luck Matt > I have a 1 Litre mini and want to start to drive long distances, but I don't > think it can handle motorway driving. I have a metro 1.3 engine in my shed [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Cheers > Stevie And Elvis was sitting next to Mini mad Matt in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > If you have 10" wheels change the diff as recommended or if you can get them > put the 12/13" wheels on the mini from the Metro (just for the looks)... You can't put Metro wheels on a Mini - the offset is completely wrong. Sorry I beg to differ.......... I put 13" Metro wheels on a mini and they worked perfectly. Maybe the ones I used where an odd set? :) > And Elvis was sitting next to Mini mad Matt in the spaceship, which I > thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You can't put Metro wheels on a Mini - the offset is completely wrong. And Elvis was sitting next to Mini mad Matt in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > Sorry I beg to differ.......... > I put 13" Metro wheels on a mini and they worked perfectly. They'll fit on the hubs allright, but the offset is quite a bit higher on Metro wheels. The steering geometry is all messed up. >And Elvis was sitting next to Mini mad Matt in the spaceship, which I >thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >They'll fit on the hubs allright, but the offset is quite a bit higher on >Metro wheels. The steering geometry is all messed up. I'm surprised they didn't rub on the dampers at the back.  SignatureChris Morriss Thanks for all the advice.You may have noticed I know nothing about mechanics. Also one other thing, what else would I have to mod to cope with the engine? I know I need new suspention but what excatly would I need, also I have seen superfins for my breaks and some new green stuff pads & discs, should I get these to cope with the new engine. Cheers in advance for any help. Stevie > Thanks for all the advice.You may have noticed I know nothing about > mechanics. > Also one other thing, what else would I have to mod to cope with the > engine? I know I need new suspention but what excatly would I need, > also I have seen superfins for my breaks and some new green stuff pads > & discs, should I get these to cope with the new engine. You don't need new suspension to cope with the engine, although it will make the car handle better and will therefore be more fun. Most people fit hi-los or similar to lower the ride height and you will need some shocks for a lowered car, Spax or similar. If you have disc brakes at the front then you don't need to upgrade them unless they are causing a problem, green stuff pads might actually make you braking worse under normal conditions, I think they are mainly for the track and therefore only stop you well once they have got really hot which wont happen on the road under normal driving conditions. Just make sure your current disks are in good condition and the pads are not too worn. Also make sure that the drums at the back are adjusted, this needs doing quite often for maximum braking power. As for engine mods, it may be worth fitting an Ultimate Engine Steady bar or similar which will prevent your engine rocking back and forth under acceleration. If you Mini has a bypass hose at the rear of the head, you will have to modify the thermostat or fit a blanking sleeve so that water can flow properly. Use the engine mounts from the Mini, discard the metro ones. The Mini ones should fit the metro engine in the right places though. The holes should be in the right place as the engine blocks for Minis and Metros are the same, its just that some ended up in Minis and some in Metros Search http://www.ime.org.uk/ for more info. Dave Snip > If you Mini has a bypass hose at the rear of the head, you will have to > modify the thermostat or fit a blanking sleeve so that water can flow > properly. snip I presume if you are putting the whole metro engine in you don't have to mess with the thermostat???? >Snip >> If you Mini has a bypass hose at the rear of the head, you will have to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I presume if you are putting the whole metro engine in you don't have to >mess with the thermostat???? Metros have continuous-flow heaters, so with a Mini using a water-valve heater, unless you leave the heater valve on all the time, you really need to make some arrangement to ensure proper water circulation before the thermostat opens. SignatureChris Morriss "TurboJo" <Jo@withoutspam.turbonutter.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in news:ENOdnbhLS_ 5ym4DcSa8jmw@karoo.co.uk: > Snip >> If you Mini has a bypass hose at the rear of the head, you will have to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I presume if you are putting the whole metro engine in you don't have to > mess with the thermostat???? You will have to do it anyway. I *think* (but I'm not 100%) that if your Mini doesn't have the little bypass hose at the back of the head then you don't need to do anyting to the thermostat. Would be worth checking that out those if you have one of those engines. The thermostat issue isn't really a biggy though. 3 bolts to undo the thermostat. The blanking sleeve costs less than a tenner. Some people don't bother with the sleeve and just keep the heater on hot all the time. I think that's pointless considering the ease and cost of making the mod though. You have to have your heater on even on the hottest summer days and if someone switches it to cold by accident you could end up ruining the engine as a one or two of the pistons will overheat. And Elvis was sitting next to Dave Skirrow in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [bypass hose] > You will have to do it anyway. I *think* (but I'm not 100%) that if your > Mini doesn't have the little bypass hose at the back of the head then you > don't need to do anyting to the thermostat. Would be worth checking that > out those if you have one of those engines. AFAIK, all Minis had the bypass hose arrangment. The only Minis I've ever seen without it were Metro engine transplants. > The thermostat issue isn't really a biggy though. 3 bolts to undo the > thermostat. The blanking sleeve costs less than a tenner. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > summer days and if someone switches it to cold by accident you could end up > ruining the engine as a one or two of the pistons will overheat. You'll have to drill out the blanked-off heater takeoff point on the Metro head anyway to get the Mini heater connected up. The one disadvantage of replacing the thermostat with the blanking sleeve is that the engine takes ages to warm up. In the past I've tended to prefer other methods that keep the thermostat - 1. Drill the Metro head and fit a hose stub. Fit a Mini water pump and bypass hose (ie. exactly copy the standard Mini bypass circuit). 2. Fit the sandwich plate from the Metro under the thermostat housing (you'll need the longer Metro thermostat bolts, and longer bolts with tubular spacers to adapt the Mini top radiator mount), and take a hose from it to a Y piece fitted where the heater return hose joins the bottom hose. 3. get hold of the inline heater valve from a late-model injection Mini. Use a standard Mini heater valve fixed in its open position and fit a Y piece to it. One hose goes straight to a Y piece in the bottom hose, the other goes through the inline heater valve to the heater feed hose. The heater cable connects up fine to the inline heater valve, but the control is reversed (pull out for hot). If you can get hold of a scrap Metro heater, the fittings where the water supply connects to the heater matrix make a very neat replacement for the standard Mini heater valve in this setup. Around 1990 when Rover reintroduced the Cooper the bypass hose was eliminated. Of course, you could also look at it as, Rover started putting Metro engines in Minis. Cheers, Kelley >And Elvis was sitting next to Dave Skirrow in the spaceship, which I >thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] >supply connects to the heater matrix make a very neat replacement for the >standard Mini heater valve in this setup. > Around 1990 when Rover reintroduced the Cooper the bypass hose was > eliminated. Of course, you could also look at it as, Rover started [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Kelley Yeah that's right, they didn't all have the hose, although the only way to tell is by checking it, I had a '92 with the hose and one without. Also some have the heater hose outlet already drilled and the heater coming from there. At least I had a 998 that had had that done, might have been messed with though. And Elvis was sitting next to Kelley Mascher in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > Around 1990 when Rover reintroduced the Cooper the bypass hose was > eliminated. Of course, you could also look at it as, Rover started > putting Metro engines in Minis. Interesting - how has the factory arranged the plumbing on those models? Thanks for advice. What about the clutch. I have noticed that Metros have a cable arrangement and I have seen something in mags about different release arms. > And Elvis was sitting next to Dave Skirrow in the spaceship, which I > thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > supply connects to the heater matrix make a very neat replacement for the > standard Mini heater valve in this setup. >Thanks for advice. > >What about the clutch. I have noticed that Metros have a cable arrangement >and I have seen something in mags about different release arms. Not all Metros used a cable clutch, many used the 'Verto' hydraulic clutch, which uses a different slave cylinder mounting and a shorter operating arm than the old Mini clutch. SignatureChris Morriss And Elvis was sitting next to Chris Morriss in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > >Thanks for advice. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > clutch, which uses a different slave cylinder mounting and a shorter > operating arm than the old Mini clutch. Adapting it to the Mini hydraulics is fairly simple - you just need a handful of bits from a hydraulic Verto Mini. Off the top of my head: Release arm Slave cylinder mounting bracket Cylinder-arm pushrod ISTR the hose is slightly longer on Verto Minis, so you may need that as well. |
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