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Car Forum / MINI / September 2004

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making sure i'm not "ringing" a mini

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philip cosson - 25 Aug 2004 08:33 GMT
Hi,

I've been on http://www.dvla.gov.uk/vehicles/regrebil.htm

I plan to buy a well rusty mk1 850. I wanted to use a new body shell.

Can anyone tell me whether a mkIII body shell is "A new chassis or
monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original" in this
case? Are they determined to have EXACTLY the same specification?

Also - how hard is it to keep two of:

Suspension (front & back)
Axles (both)
Transmission
Steering Assembly
Engine  

from a Mk1 and put them in a MkIII

I won't be doing the work, I'll need a garage. The car is for my son
to learn to drive in (and then my daughter, so I need a good 8 years
of life out of it). I want the 850 for insurance reasons - but i'd
like to paint it up to look like a cooper for "street cred" reasons!
I'm not a purist, but I'm not wanting to sell it as anything it's not.
I'll keep the interior dash, gearbox and drum brakes of the 850. It's
not going to be a fast car, as the MkIII shell is heavy!!!

How much would this cost?

Now you can all laugh at my suggestion and tell me why this is a pipe
dream.

TIA

Philip
Howard Rose - 25 Aug 2004 09:59 GMT
>I won't be doing the work, I'll need a garage. The car is for my son
>to learn to drive in (and then my daughter, so I need a good 8 years
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Now you can all laugh at my suggestion and tell me why this is a pipe
>dream.

You would be better off reshelling a later '70s Mini.  They still had
850 engines, and since they rusted so well it's fairly easy to find
donor cars.  But the insurance difference between 850 and 1,000 is
pratically nothing...

Heritage shells are not made in the MK1 shape, only MK3 (and a half)
onwards...  Almost none of the MK1 parts would fit the new shell!

Cost?  My friend reshelled a 1977, and that cost him £7,000.  Just to
buy the body and get is sprayed is going to cost the best part of
£3,000 - 3,500

To be honest, you'd be better off buying a restored car from a Mini
specialist.  Looking in MiniWorld, MBM Bristol sell cars that have
been restored in a new shell, look like Coopers and have the 1000
engine... for £5,500...

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)
Dave Skirrow - 25 Aug 2004 10:20 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original" in this
> case? Are they determined to have EXACTLY the same specification?

I'm no expert, the only way to be sure is to call the DVLA or Heritage,
however, I *think* that this is ok. I believe that a chassis which is
not to the same spec would be say a Mini Marcos shell that's a different
shape or a tubular space frame chassis. Speak to the DVLA to be sure
though.

> Also - how hard is it to keep two of:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> from a Mk1 and put them in a MkIII

That's easy, engine and transmission and 1 thing in a mini and will bolt
straight in to the later shell with only minor modifications, if any.

> I won't be doing the work, I'll need a garage. The car is for my son
> to learn to drive in (and then my daughter, so I need a good 8 years
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> How much would this cost?

Well, about ?2.5k for the shell, plus the cost of reconditioning all the
parts (there's no point in bolting rusty old bits to a fancy new shell.

Spraying of the shell? Few hundred quid.

Rebuild of the engine would prebably set you back ?500 or so depending
on condtion.

At a wild guess you are probably looking at ?4k-?5k in total before
labour, assuming all the major mechanicals are ok. I'm currently
building a kit car and it#s surprising how quickly the cost mounts up on
buying small parts. As for labour, it's a lot of work and it will cost a
lot of money. I've no idea of how long it would take but you will have
to find someone who is capable and trustworthy and rather cheap. An
enthusiastic friend would be your best option.

> Now you can all laugh at my suggestion and tell me why this is a pipe
> dream.

Well, as you asked I'l give my opinion.....

If you go ahead you are basically going to end up with a MKIII Mini with
850 Mk1 mechanicals.

There's 4 reasons I can think of why you would want to restore a Mk1
Mini. The first and most obvious is if you ARE a purist and you want a
classic old car. If this was case though you would want to restore the
original shell. Secondly, is that the car has sentimental value of some
sort and you have a large wallet. Third, is for the fun of doind it
yourself in your own garage, which doesn't apply in your case and
finally, is to be tax exempt, but it's a rather expensive way of being
tax exempt. Also, if the MKIII shell doesnt suit the DVLA and isn't
classed as trhe same spec as the original, you will end up with a Q
plate or an age related plate at best, niether of which are tax exempt.

The car wouldn't retain the same value as a proper MK1 because of the
MKIII shell. In fact I would bet that the the minute you drove it out of
the garage it lost half of it's value.

I personally wouldn't bother. At risk of getting flamed, MK1 mechanicals
are not upto todays standards and in my opinion are not up to driving on
todays roads, at least not for a daily driver for 2 young people who
have just passed thier test.

Generally, MK1 parts don't last as long and they cost more to buy, some
are unobtainable. The 850 engine is not as economical or as powerful as
a 998, while the 998 falls into the same tax and insurance band roughly.
The only advantage of the 850 IMO is that it is original. MK1 single
leading shoe brakes are scary, they were probably just about good enough
in the traffic of the early '60s but in todays traffic many people
consider them dangerous. You have a single circuit master cylinder also
which means if the brakes fail you have only the handbrake to stop you,
later models will usually retain braking in 2 wheels if the others fail.
No brake servo so your kids will have to work hard with their right leg
to get the damn thing to stop. I could go on but I'm sure you get the
idea, new shell or not, it's still a 40 year old car underneath.

For the reasons you mention, (cheap insurance for your new driver kids)
there are plenty of other options. For the same price as restoring the
850 you could get a modern euro box, although I doubt you want to do
that, and who can blame you. You could get a late 1275 injection cooper,
leather interior, wooden dash, drivers airbag, 5 speed gears in the
fancy ones, servo assisted brakes, etc etc. Would be worth getting
insurance quotes first and comparing to the 850 though cos the price
might be a fair bit more for young new drivers. The other option would
be to get a very well looked after MKIII 998 (or any well looked after
Mini), if you spent the same amount of cash it would probably be mint
conditioin, if you spent half the amount it would still be pretty damn
good. That way you get your cheap car without paying a fortune for
someone to build it for you.

Anyway, I hope I haven't put you off too much! Good luck with what ever
option you go for, let us know how you go on,

Cheers,
Dave
Nicholas Bales - 26 Aug 2004 12:02 GMT
> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> monocoque bodyshell of the same specification as the original" in this
> case? Are they determined to have EXACTLY the same specification?

Not sure about UK regulations, but a "new bodyshell" would have to be one of
those shells from BMH at UKP2000, right?

Anyway, it would definitely be a shame to scrap the mk1 shell. The car would
no longer look like a Mk1, even to the untrained eye. If the shell is
post-1976, the front subframe won't fit either, so you will only be keeping
a Mk1 engine and maybe the interior. What would be the point ?
Howard Rose - 26 Aug 2004 12:49 GMT
>Anyway, it would definitely be a shame to scrap the mk1 shell. The car would
>no longer look like a Mk1, even to the untrained eye. If the shell is
>post-1976, the front subframe won't fit either, so you will only be keeping
>a Mk1 engine and maybe the interior. What would be the point ?

Not much of the interior would fit either.  MK1's have a different
dash layout (no air vents in the corners), the door panels are
different, the glass is all a different size, the headlining fits in a
different way... the list is endless!

--
Howard Rose
1966 VW Beetle 1300 Deluxe
1962 Austin Mini Deluxe
1964 Austin Mini Super Deluxe
http://www.howard81.co.uk/ (cars on website)
B. - 01 Sep 2004 13:15 GMT
If you're going to all that trouble, why not buy a basket case and a
fibreglass shell (eg. one of the domino shells - cheaper than the
steel shells and they do not rust) - you will have more than 8 years
of happy motoring.

http://www.domino-cars.co.uk/

It's a little lighter too so reshelling a low mileage rusted out 998
basket case will feel more like a 1275. An enthusiast will buy your
850 Mk1 on ebay which will give you enough to buy a later 998 and
still have some left to contribute to the shell.

Graham Sykes insures my car for the same price I'd pay for a regular
mini.

Alternatively, have a look at what you can find on ebay that's not a
project. There are some pretty good minis listed.
 
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