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Car Forum / MINI / September 2004Off side front bearing wear!
Hello there, I have just taken my car for an mot (I knew it would fail but I just wanted to see what work to actually do) They have said (and i have confirmed this by checking) that the off side front wheel bearing has worn after only about 5000 miles! What could have caused this, any ideas? Thanks in advance Nick drive flange is prob knackered, get a new one. are you running wide wheels ? fragged > Hello there, > I have just taken my car for an mot (I knew it would fail but I just [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks in advance > Nick > drive flange is prob knackered, get a new one. are you running wide wheels ? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks in advance > > Nick I am running 5/12 alloy wheels. What is involved with changing the drive flange... does it involve pulling the drive shaft out of the subframe? Ta, Nick I renewed my (conical) left-front wheel bearings about a year ago, but after awhile it got pretty noisy. I opened it up and found the bearings were no longer silver-colored and lots of little metal bits in there. I had heard that the conical bearings can take a lot of abuse, but the problem was this: when I renewed the bearings, I torqued up the hub to 185 ft.-lbs. as spec'd in the Haines manual. I backed it off so the cotter pin would go in and lock the nut, but obviously this amount of torque was still too high, resulting in premature destruction of the bearings - and it took about 5000 miles for this to become plain. I torqued the latest bearings to about 100 ft.-lbs. and everything is tight with no noise. Not saying that's what your problem was, but it's possible... Geoff > Hello there, > I have just taken my car for an mot (I knew it would fail but I just [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > about > 5000 miles! What could have caused this, any ideas? *snip* > I had heard that the conical bearings can take a lot of abuse, but the > problem was this: when I renewed the bearings, I torqued up the hub to > 185 ft.-lbs. as spec'd in the Haines manual. I backed it off so the > cotter pin would go in and lock the nut, *snip* How much did you back off on the nut??? The specification says to torque it up (200N/m, which is much but ok, it is specified) and than turn even tighter if the pin hole is not aligned with the castellated nut. Loosening the nut will cause the wrong load on the bearing. Also, there is difference in the bearings. You buy them as a set (inner and outer bearing) with a spacer that slides over the axle to properly space the two bearing halves. On 'cheaper' bearings this specer has a standard thickness, on 'expensive' bearings the bearings and spacer are matched on thickness to provide the perfect clearence. I replaced both left and right hand side front bearings on one of my previous minis (with a matched set), Torqued them up as specified, turned the nuts tighter if required to fit the pin, and have had many problem-free driving kilometers (15.000+ or so). Havent heard any complaints from the new owner either. Don't forget to put the right kind of grease in the bearing. It is not the same stuff as in the grease-gun (for the suspension). It should be high melting point lithium something jadajada... ask the car parts shop.  SignatureBye, Ray It IS the same lithium based grease as the suspension BUT don't over pack the bearing as this will cause overheating. Nick, try tightening the bearings as per specs before replacing the bearings, it might just be a case of adjustment. Dean. > *snip* >> I had heard that the conical bearings can take a lot of abuse, but the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > It should be high melting point lithium something jadajada... ask the car > parts shop. > How much did you back off on the nut??? > The specification says to torque it up (200N/m, which is much but ok, it > is specified) and than turn even tighter if the pin hole is not aligned > with the castellated nut. > Loosening the nut will cause the wrong load on the bearing. Right, this was the procedure I followed twice, and the bearing on that side wore out both times in just a few thousand miles. There is one full-time Mini mechanic here in Portland, Oregon and he says to torque it to spec, then >back it off< to get the pin hole aligned. It does need to be torqued up to seat the bearings in properly, but perhaps it needs less than the spec'd torque for operation? > Also, there is difference in the bearings. You buy them as a set (inner > and outer bearing) with a spacer that slides over the axle to properly > space the two bearing halves. On 'cheaper' bearings this specer has a > standard thickness, on 'expensive' bearings the bearings and spacer are > matched on thickness to provide the perfect clearence. I've only used the roller (not ball) conical bearings which are supposedly for Cooper 'S' racing spec, about U.S. $55 for one set (for one wheel). > I replaced both left and right hand side front bearings on one of my > previous minis (with a matched set), Torqued them up as specified, turned > the nuts tighter if required to fit the pin, and have had many > problem-free driving kilometers (15.000+ or so). Havent heard any > complaints from the new owner either. Good for you, this is just what I did twice and they kept wearing out quickly...go figure! > Don't forget to put the right kind of grease in the bearing. It is not the > same stuff as in the grease-gun (for the suspension). > It should be high melting point lithium something jadajada... ask the car > parts shop. Right, actually the new bearings (nicely) come with the correct grease. Regards, Geoff > > How much did you back off on the nut??? > > The specification says to torque it up (200N/m, which is much but ok, it [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > up to seat the bearings in properly, but perhaps it needs less than the > spec'd torque for operation? I have been informed recently to remove the conical washer and replace with a flat one, torque the nut up, then remove it then put the conical washer in and do it up again and then on to the next hole. any opinions on this? Barnaby This is actually the recommended procedure in the Haines manual. The purpose is to firmly seat all hub components before tightening down the driveshaft nut, avoiding problems from locking down the split-ring conical washer you mentioned before the hub is tight. I've never done it, since my washers don't seem to have a lock-down problem anyway. > I have been informed recently to remove the conical washer and replace > with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > any opinions on this? > Barnaby > I have been informed recently to remove the conical washer and replace with > a flat one, torque the nut up, then remove it then put the conical washer in > and do it up again and then on to the next hole. > > any opinions on this? > Barnaby That's the proper way to do it. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > > I have been informed recently to remove the conical washer and replace with > > a flat one, torque the nut up, then remove it then put the conical washer in [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com oh well at least I did it properly guess I should have read the manual before posting :-) Barnaby BTW good to see you back. hi the reason I said drive flange is that this has happened to me , I changed the disk twice thinking the disk was warped because with new bearings i got wheel wobble under breaking and it turned out to be the flange , Even though it looked OK the wear was too much causing it to knock out a new bearing. No need to remove the driveshaft its the bit with the wheel studs on it. fragged > Hello there, > I have just taken my car for an mot (I knew it would fail but I just [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks in advance > Nick I just had both my front bearings done, and since then they have both squeeked like buggery! Is it that they are not tight enough or too tight? jono > Hello there, > I have just taken my car for an mot (I knew it would fail but I just wanted [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > e Easy to check - raise the front end, lock the steering wheel, and wiggle the wheel from side to side to check for play, right? Geoff > I just had both my front bearings done, and since then they have both > squeeked like buggery! Is it that they are not tight enough or too tight? > > jono Thats what I did before the bearings where replaced, they were very worn, but they are now new and have no play at all, just very noisy at times, i wondered if i should check the torque by backing the hub nut back and re-applying the torque just in case the mechanic that did it for me cocked up? jono > Easy to check - raise the front end, lock the steering wheel, and wiggle the > wheel from side to side to check for play, right? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > jono > Easy to check - raise the front end, lock the steering wheel, and wiggle the > wheel from side to side to check for play, right? Side to side tests the steering rack and ball joints; up and down tests the balljoints and bearings. Here's what I do: park with a front wheel right up against a curb (kerb) so that wheel can't be steered. Open the bonnet and prop it up. Have a friend try to slowly steer the car to one side and then the other, using some considerable force, while you watch the suspension. This also checks the subframe mounts. Watch for anything wobbly or loose. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ Absolutely right, I was mixed up...I've had to do both tests fairly recently! > Side to side tests the steering rack and ball joints; up and down tests > the balljoints and bearings. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > some considerable force, while you watch the suspension. This also checks > the subframe mounts. Watch for anything wobbly or loose. > I just had both my front bearings done, and since then they have both > squeeked like buggery! Is it that they are not tight enough or too tight? That almost sounds like they left the spacers out. I have never had a squeaky bearing on a Mini. I would want to have it apart and find what's wrong. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ It is a bit worrying, i do very low mileage, the test is due soon, so will have the garage check the bearings as well in a few weeks. I will in the meantime jack the car up and do some checks of my own, i dont want to pull it apart as i need it for work everyday...hey ho Thanks for the advice jono > > I just had both my front bearings done, and since then they have both > > squeeked like buggery! Is it that they are not tight enough or too tight? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ I agree there's something probably wrong with the assembly. Once you get used to pulling the hub apart, you will get pretty fast. Unfortunately, I've had a lot of practice. But now I had disassemble and reassemble in less than 1/2 hour, working fast! Personally, I think it's better to lock the steering wheel and test, than park the other side against a curb and torque on the steering. That seems to be asking for bending the alignment out if you do it hard enough... Geoff > It is a bit worrying, i do very low mileage, the test is due soon, so will > have the garage check the bearings as well in a few weeks. I will in the > meantime jack the car up and do some checks of my own, i dont want to pull > it apart as i need it for work everyday...hey ho > Thanks for the advice > I agree there's something probably wrong with the assembly. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > park the other side against a curb and torque on the steering. That seems > to be asking for bending the alignment out if you do it hard enough... If you are able to damage the alignment by pulling on the steering wheel, you had better do so as soon as possible. It's far better to have this turn up in a static test than while driving down the motorway. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ Hey Rocky, Long time no see. Just been to your website for the first time in a long time and chanced upon one of my favourite quotes: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB Still kills me!! Good to see you, hope the wheels you bought are being put to good use The Muffin Man >> I agree there's something probably wrong with the assembly. >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > Hey Rocky, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Still kills me!! He may manage to kill us all before he's done. > Good to see you, hope the wheels you bought are being put to good use It has been long enough for me to forget exactly which wheels. If it was the Mercury mags, some are on The Luggage and some are on his wee Trailer! http://www.theluggage.net/trailer/Trailerpix.htm -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ That's the ones. Good to see they are going to good use, even though they are a zillion miles away from here now :D The Muffin Man >> Hey Rocky, >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > That's the ones. Good to see they are going to good use, even though they > are a zillion miles away from here now :D Thye are much appreciated! -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- JJ Cale Live CD and video: http://www.rocky-frisco.com/calelive.htm The Wednesday Night Science Project: http://www.wednitesciproj.us Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/
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