 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Car Forum / MINI / October 2004gear oil
I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the engine and the transmission both use the same oil out of the same sump. Is this true, or do I have put oil into the transmission seperately elsewhere? It is a regular 4 speed car. You can either e-mail the responses or just post here. Thanks Hi: It's better to post here as the responses are archived so noobys after you can benefit form your work. Yes the Mini (this is assuming it has the original A series and not VTEC, Vauxhall transplant) shares the same oil with the engine and transmission. Depending on where you are in the world you can sort of play with your viscosity but I use Synthetic 20W50 here in SoCal. One of the key benefits is the fact that you prolong the life of your powerunit because you change the oil together. The only negative in my opinion is that the oil gets thrashed sooner because of the gears in the transmission. Good luck and post a link so we can see pictures of your new car. You can see mine here http://austinmini.ositech.net  Signaturehttp://iBuyMinis.OsiTech.Net ----------------------------------------------- Wanted Austin Mini Projects. In any condition and in the USA. What do you have hiding in your shed? >I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the engine >and the transmission both use the same oil > out of the same sump. Is this true, or do I have put oil into the > transmission seperately elsewhere? It is a regular 4 > speed car. You can either e-mail the responses or just post here. > Thanks > I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the engine and the transmission both use the same oil > out of the same sump. Is this true, or do I have put oil into the transmission seperately elsewhere? It is a regular 4 > speed car. You can either e-mail the responses or just post here. Ben, it's true, the car uses one common sump for engine, transmission and final drive. The only problem this introduces is that the transmission and final drive introduce swarf (steel shavings and such) into the lubrication system of the engine. Many Mini owners use a special sump drain plug that has a strong magnet on the end of the plug to capture the steel shavings before they can damage the bearings and oil pump. I use one of these myself. The Mini is a miraculous automobile; take proper care of it and it can provide the most fun you've ever had driving a car. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ >> I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the >>engine and the transmission both use the same oil [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >to capture the steel shavings before they can damage the bearings and >oil pump. I use one of these myself. The magnetic drain plug was a factory fitting. In the days before they put synchromesh on first gear you could find some frightenly large lumps of gear tooth stuck to it. SignatureDavid Toft You can also bung a magnet on the oil filter. A hard drive magnet works well :) The Muffin Man >> I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the >> engine and the transmission both use the same oil [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ or you can just buy a premium oil filter from rover - costs like 50p more and has a magent inside - tight b*stard > You can also bung a magnet on the oil filter. A hard drive magnet works > well :) [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ >> World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ Didn't know that you could get a "rich bug%er" oil filter otherwise I would have advised it :D The Muffin Man > or you can just buy a premium oil filter from rover - costs like 50p more > and has a magent inside - tight b*stard [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>> Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ >>> World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ > Didn't know that you could get a "rich bug%er" oil filter otherwise I > would have advised it :D > > The Muffin Man I use a FRAM filter on my Mini, but it's not the one they list, it's about 1.5-2 inches deeper if anyones interested I'll crane my head under the grill and read the part number - I think it's something like 2528 or 2825. S. you going to the Nats Splam? >> Didn't know that you could get a "rich bug%er" oil filter otherwise I >> would have advised it :D [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > S. IMHO, the worst thing you can do to your car is use Fram oil filter. I use Ford filter. Do yourself a favor and cut open a both filters and see the innards. Signaturehttp://iBuyMinis.OsiTech.Net ----------------------------------------------- Wanted Austin Mini Projects. In any condition and in the USA. What do you have hiding in your shed? >> Didn't know that you could get a "rich bug%er" oil filter otherwise I >> would have advised it :D [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > S. > IMHO, the worst thing you can do to your car is use Fram oil filter. > > I use Ford filter. Do yourself a favor and cut open a both filters and > see the innards. The guy who supplied it to me uses them on race cars - can't be too bad. As with oil changes, frequency of changes is possibly more important than quality. I see, so possibly they are racing specials and not the crap ones they sell in stores then. I use Mobil1 synthetic. Signaturehttp://iBuyMinis.OsiTech.Net ----------------------------------------------- Wanted Austin Mini Projects. In any condition and in the USA. What do you have hiding in your shed? >> IMHO, the worst thing you can do to your car is use Fram oil filter. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > As with oil changes, frequency of changes is possibly more important than > quality. > I use Mobil1 synthetic. You shouldn't. Okay, miniducate me as to why not. Thanks and have a nice Friday. Signaturehttp://iBuyMinis.OsiTech.Net ----------------------------------------------- Wanted Austin Mini Projects. In any condition and in the USA. What do you have hiding in your shed? >> I use Mobil1 synthetic. > > You shouldn't. > Okay, miniducate me as to why not. Apparently the synthetics don't stand up well to being chewed up by the gears in the transmission and final drive. Seems it's the wrong sort of application for them. This is, by the way, what I have been told. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ year - t*sser - see my post on the same subject, dated - 12/10/04 10:47 - like two posts below yours... >> Okay, miniducate me as to why not. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ Thanks Rocky Sir. Now I am really confused. Don't motorbikes use basically the same set up as we do in terms of sharing oil between trans and engine though? Signaturehttp://iBuyMinis.OsiTech.Net ----------------------------------------------- Wanted Austin Mini Projects. In any condition and in the USA. What do you have hiding in your shed? >> Okay, miniducate me as to why not. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ > Thanks Rocky Sir. > > Now I am really confused. Don't motorbikes use basically the same set up as > we do in terms of sharing oil between trans and engine though? I had the same thought. Don't know the answer. -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com -- Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ >> Thanks Rocky Sir. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -Rock http://www.rocky-frisco.com This subject has been debated 'till the cows come home... I think it is just 'the accepted wisdom' that you don't put fully synth in the A series. I have heard a few reasons given; one is the reason already mentioned about mashing in the gearbox, another is that the natural rubber seals used in very old engines don't like to solvents in synthetic oils, another would be that the viscosity of most fully synths is too low and leaks past the seals, one other reason I have heard is that the detergents in synthetic oils cleans all the sludge away from sealing faces and make the engine leak. What the truth is I really don't know, but there does appear to be a theme which I have experienced... If you put a nice modern fully synthetic oil in an old high mileage mini it leaks more oil. (been there done that, found a couple of pints of Mobil 1 on my garage floor). However, I also know of people that have built spangly new engines to good tolerances with new seals throughout and used synthetics exclusively for many thousands of miles with no problems. The conclusion I draw would be this, stick to what is in it. One thought to bear in mind when selecting an oil for your Mini, when the Transverse A series was created mono-grade oils were still the standard, indeed the owners handbook of my Elf recommends winter and summer oils and 6 monthly changes. Multi-grades were very much in their infancy so the el-cheapo 20-50 from Walmart is almost certainly better that the oils the power unit was designed for. just some ramblings... Drew. Motorbikes have very different gearboxes to an A-series. Although they share the oil in the same way apparently there is a lot less force involved between contact surfaces. Again, this is someone else's wisdom. Dammit Jim, I'm a teacher not a polymer specialist!! The Muffin Man >> Thanks Rocky Sir. >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Rocky Frisco's LIBERTY website: http://www.liberty-in-our-time.com/ > World's best free News Service: http://www.rationalreview.com/news/ > Motorbikes have very different gearboxes to an A-series. Although they > share the oil in the same way apparently there is a lot less force involved [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The Muffin Man There's also the point that synthetic is more expensive. Why put such expensive oil into an engine designed in the 1950s when you won't get the benefits. You still have to change the oil more frequently that in another car. I firmly beleive that the frequency of oil changes is more important than the quality of the oil. It's better to put a reasonable brand oil (Castrol GTX 15W50 for me) every 5000km than an expensive synthetic every 15000km. > I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the engine and the transmission both use the same oil > out of the same sump. Is this true, or do I have put oil into the transmission seperately elsewhere? It is a regular 4 > speed car. Both the 4 speed manual and the 4 speed auto share a common sump for motor and gearbox. Use good quality oil (not necessarily seriously expensive oil, but not no-name brand) and replace it and the filter very regularly. Ordinary motors of the 1960s required shorter oil change intervals because of the poorer oil and bearing technologies of the day anyway, but the Mini is particularly tough on it's oil. i thought the full synthetic was no good for the gearbox (transmission), the oil molecules are to thin and small, so when the oil does get mashed between the gears, it looses its lubricating qualities very quickly. moving onto the magnetic sump plug - these are standard - about 1 inch long, but many companies are selling a longer - bout 3 inches - plug with a stronger magnet. the advantage of being longer/stronger , means it puts the magnet in a better position to catch more of the sh*t in the oil because its in a better flow. - a good idea next time you're changing to oil. changing the oil - should be done every 5000, but better to do it every 3000. this means less swarf in the oil for fewer miles. cheers lads ---- Ryan Shaw >> I am the new owner of a '72 Mini Clubman. I have been told that the >> engine and the transmission both use the same oil [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > poorer oil and bearing technologies of the day anyway, but the Mini is > particularly tough on it's oil. >i thought the full synthetic was no good for the gearbox (transmission), >the oil molecules are to thin and small, so when the oil does get mashed [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > ---- > Ryan Shaw I've got a recently rebuilt engine in my mini, and i'm keen to go to synthetic oil but i'm still using 20w-50 mineral oil because all the stuff i read about using synthetic oil here and on other mini forums still scares me :) amsoil has a lot of good info on synthetics on their website and from what i can see, good synthetic oils have a stronger film than mineral oils, and that the mashing in the gearbox will cause more damage to the viscosity improvers in normal multigrade mineral oil than it will to synthetics. then in case people suggest synthetics are too thin, 50 grade synthetics (5w-50 or 10w-50) are easy to find. They're supposed to give much better lubrication and degrade less over time. One guy i was reading about ran synthetic oil in his car for 30000km (or miles?? can't remember) without changing it then sent it off for analysis and it was still working perfectly. Most of the reasons knowledgeable mini people state about why not to use synthetics in minis seem to be disputed by other knowledgeable mini people so probably the only way to be sure is to try it. It might cost a rebuild, but then if it works like its claimed, then you're engine might last twice as long so it will save you the cost of a rebuild... Then theres the brands... people say to use redline or royal purple or similar, and not to use mobil 1. here in Oz, regular 20w-50 is around $3-$6/litre for a 5L bottle, Mobil 1 (or most other common brands of synthetic) around $10-$12/L and Redline/Royal Purple about $30/L so theres BIG cost differences there. I'm happy to pay $50 a bottle for 5L of good oil, but $150 is a bit much really. there was a post on this a year or so ago... and someone approached an oil company - got the reply from them not to use syn. in a mini. obviously i cant stop you trying it yourself - but take it from me - the oil company in question stated not to use their expensive stuff and go for the cheaper option - im happy with that. cheers (good luck with the next rebuild if you do try synthetic) >>i thought the full synthetic was no good for the gearbox (transmission), >>the oil molecules are to thin and small, so when the oil does get mashed [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > BIG cost differences there. I'm happy to pay $50 a bottle for 5L of good > oil, but $150 is a bit much really. > there was a post on this a year or so ago... and someone approached an > oil company - got the reply from them not to use syn. in a mini. obviously [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cheers > (good luck with the next rebuild if you do try synthetic) Below is a copy (from www.dsnclassics.co.uk) of that letter from castrol (originally posted here by Steve from DSN). Read it again. It doesn't say not to use synthetic oil, it says not to use low viscosity (eg 0w-30) synthetic oil. The oil they recommend at the end of the letter is a synthetic oil. Geoff ----------------------- We have met some concern about the use of synthetic oils, in that they have been attributed to causing low engine oil pressure when hot. We would like to clarify the situation. To this end, we have contacted Castrol (UK) Ltd. for their advice and this is their response: Oil pressure is directly related to viscosity and it is therefore not the difference between synthetic and non-synthetic oils that causes the difference in pressure, more the fact that modern synthetic oils are of a lower viscosity than the A series engine was originally designed for. Modern, new generation, engines are being designed to run on lighter viscosity oils to aid lubricant flow when cold and provide less viscous drag when hot thereby aiding fuel economy. The lubrication system in older engines is designed to cater for larger working clearances on crankshaft and camshaft bearing journals, valve gear and other moving parts, plus oil galleries will be larger and the oil pump will be of a suitable design to pump oils of a heavier viscosity irrespective of their base oil type. Synthetic oils are designed to give greater film strength and higher levels of lubricity together with increased thermal stability and better resistance to oxidation. They are also able to maintain their properties when used under arduous or extreme conditions. These special properties also enable lighter viscosity, energy efficient oils to be used whilst offering an enhanced level of protection and performance. Whilst the lower viscosity of some synthetic oils may lead to reduced oil pressure, it does not necessarily mean reduced protection. However, owners who are nervous of a reduction in pressure should consider using Castrol Formula RS 10W-60 which will give rapid circulation when cold but will retain a substantial viscosity when up to its full working temperature. We would like to thank Castrol (UK) Ltd. for their kind assistance. To put this into words I understand, you have said "it may cost you a rebuild to change it or it may save you a rebuild to change it". Here in God's country we have a saying - "if it aint broke don't fix it". The Muffin Man >>i thought the full synthetic was no good for the gearbox (transmission), >>the oil molecules are to thin and small, so when the oil does get mashed [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > BIG cost differences there. I'm happy to pay $50 a bottle for 5L of good > oil, but $150 is a bit much really.
|
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.