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Car Forum / MINI / December 2004Mini discs rubing
Hi, is there anything I can do to stop the disc pads making a rubbing sound at low speeds on the discs, on my 1991 Mini Mayfair. What, if anything, should move the pads of the disc face when you lift your foot off the brake pedal? JOC Is it the pads or is it actually the shield. The water shield can snap off and then just rests on the disc as it is turning. The Muffin Man > Hi, > is there anything I can do to stop the disc pads making a rubbing sound at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > JOC Its not the shields, I have checked they are clear. I replaced the discs about 6 months ago, so they should be reasonably true. So I think it is just the pads. > Is it the pads or is it actually the shield. The water shield can snap > off and then just rests on the disc as it is turning. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> JOC If you hadn't changed the discs I would be tempted to say that it was rust on the outer edge.... The Muffin Man > Its not the shields, I have checked they are clear. > I replaced the discs about 6 months ago, so they should be reasonably [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> >>> JOC What quality of pads are fitted ?? some of the cheaper ones tend to give off quite a bit of dust and this tends to cause a squealing problem, Could also be seized callipers,, holding the pads on to the discs and glazing the pads ?? Fitzy > If you hadn't changed the discs I would be tempted to say that it was rust > on the outer edge.... [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>>> >>>> JOC > Hi, > is there anything I can do to stop the disc pads making a rubbing sound at [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > JOC Nothing pulls the pads off the discs, they are meant to rub slightly. John chopped 5 cloves minced garlic 4-6 ounces bamboo shoots Sherry chicken broth oil for deep frying (1 gallon) Salt pepper soy & teriyaki minced ginger, etc. 1 tablespoon cornstarch dissolved in a little cold water 1 egg beaten Make the stuffing: Marinate the flesh in a mixture of soy and teriyaki sauces then stir fry in hot oil for till brown - about 1 minute, remove. Stir-fry the vegetables. Put the meat back into the wok and adjust the seasoning. De-glaze with sherry, cooking off the alcohol. Add broth (optional) cook a few more minutes. Add the cornstarch, cook a few minutes till thick, then place the stuffing into a colander and cool; 2 hours Wrap the rolls: Place 3 tablespoons of stuffing in the wrap, roll tightly - corner nearest you first, fold 2 side corners in, wrap till remaining corner is left. Brush with egg, seal, and allow to sit on the seal for a few minutes. Fry the rolls: 325? if using egg roll wraps, 350? for spring roll wraps. Deep fry in peanut oil till crispy golden brown, drain on paper towels. Lemon Neonate Turkey serves just as well, and in fact even looks a bit like a well-dressed baby. By the time you turn the child?s breast into cutlets, it will be indistinguishable. The taste of young human, although similar to turkey (and chicken) often can be wildly different depending upon what he or she has consumed during its 10 to 14 months of life... 4 well chosen cutlets (from the breasts of 2 healthy neonates) 2 large lemons (fresh lemons always, if possible) Olive oil Green onions Salt pepper cornstarch neonate stock (chicken, or turkey stock is fine) garlic parsley fresh cracked black pepper Season and saut? the cutlets in olive oil till golden brown, remove. Add the garlic and onions and cook down a bit. Add some lemon juice and some zest, then de-glaze with stock. Add a little cornstarch (dissolved in cold water) to the sauce. You are And Elvis was sitting next to John Manders in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > > Hi, > > is there anything I can do to stop the disc pads making a rubbing sound at [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Nothing pulls the pads off the discs, they are meant to rub slightly. No, they are not. The elasticity of the caliper seal pulls the piston back a fraction of a millimetre when the hydraulic pressure is relaxed. The pads themselves are floating. They may rest lightly against the disc when the brakes aren't applied, but they shouldn't drag. With rubbing brakes, the problem is usually corroded of dirt-caked components. Badly scored and ridged discs can also cause this problem, particularly if you've just fitted new pads. Many thanks - I will set about cleaning the calipers up (the discs are new).. > And Elvis was sitting next to John Manders in the spaceship, which I > thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ridged discs can also cause this problem, particularly if you've just > fitted new pads. > No, they are not. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ridged discs can also cause this problem, particularly if you've just > fitted new pads. There is a pressure valve in the end of the master cylinder that is intended to keep a small positive pressure in the braking system to avoid pad knock back. That's the effect when a slight wobble of the discs pushes the pads back and results in a long pedal the next time the brakes are applied. Such a wobble can be caused by the hub etc flexing during fast cornering. It also means that the pads rub the discs slightly. This valve is the major difference between brake and clutch master cylinders. The clutch doesn't have one. A very rapid TR3 racer I used to know always removed this valve reasoning that the extra drag slowed him down. Personally, I preferred the confidence of a high pedal. John And Elvis was sitting next to John Manders in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > > No, they are not. > > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > difference between brake and clutch master cylinders. The clutch doesn't > have one. I have never seen anything remotely similar to what you describe in any Mini braking system. The end of the master cylinder is just a plain tapped hole - you can hold it up to the light and look straight through it. In fact, the only thing remotely like what you describe that I have ever come across is the 'residual prerssure valve' in early VW Beetle master cylinders. > I have never seen anything remotely similar to what you describe in any > Mini braking system. The end of the master cylinder is just a plain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > come across is the 'residual prerssure valve' in early VW Beetle master > cylinders. It is certainly fitted to the master cylinder on my car. I have just checked in the Mini workshop manual (Official BMC one and Haynes) and it is shown on the drawing of the M/Cyl. It is part 16 and is called a non-return valve. Your description of a residual pressure valve describes its operation perfectly though. I cannot see what its function would be on an all drum braked car though. The sections in the BMC manual don't show any master cylinder so I assume that the basic design is shared with the drum braked cars. My books are quite old, so is my experience with Minis so perhaps the later ones don't have this. How old id your car? I haven't actually stripped a master cylinder for over 10 years and that wasn't a new one. John And Elvis was sitting next to John Manders in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > > I have never seen anything remotely similar to what you describe in any > > Mini braking system. The end of the master cylinder is just a plain [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > in the Mini workshop manual (Official BMC one and Haynes) and it is shown on > the drawing of the M/Cyl. It is part 16 and is called a non-return valve. Hmm... You're dead right. I couldn't find it in my Haynes manual, but a quick search turned it up in the Clymer manual. Girling single-circuit master cylinder. The valve seems to have been dropped on the new master cylinders introduced with the change to dual-circuit. > Your description of a residual pressure valve describes its operation > perfectly though. I cannot see what its function would be on an all drum > braked car though. I'd suppose that a car with drum brakes would have more need of such a setup than one with discs - drum brakes usually having quite strong return springs that would tend to force the pistons back in the wheel cylinders. > The sections in the BMC manual don't show any master > cylinder so I assume that the basic design is shared with the drum braked > cars. > My books are quite old, so is my experience with Minis so perhaps the later > ones don't have this. How old id your car? I haven't actually stripped a > master cylinder for over 10 years and that wasn't a new one. The error is mine. I haven't worked on a single-circuit Mini for years, and I haven't stripped a SC master cylinder in even longer - the last job I did on a Girling 'tin can' master cylinder was to fling it into the skip before fitting a recon unit. Ah so honour is satisfied both ways. I have never worked on a dual circuit Mini system so I learned something there. It's times like this when I feel really old. I suppose as the OP asked about a 1991 Mini, your answer is right. Cheers John > I have never seen anything remotely similar to what you describe in any > Mini braking system. The end of the master cylinder is just a plain [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > come across is the 'residual prerssure valve' in early VW Beetle master > cylinders. And whats that thing in the end of the spring in the master cylinder (the large end) And Elvis was sitting next to Rob in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > > I have never seen anything remotely similar to what you describe in any > > Mini braking system. The end of the master cylinder is just a plain [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > And whats that thing in the end of the spring in the master cylinder > (the large end) A cup-shaped neoprene piston seal. > And Elvis was sitting next to Rob in the spaceship, which I thought was > kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > A cup-shaped neoprene piston seal. No its a non return valve. And Elvis was sitting next to Rob in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > >>And whats that thing in the end of the spring in the master cylinder > >>(the large end) > > > > A cup-shaped neoprene piston seal. > > No its a non return valve. Thanks a bunch. You've got me so mixed-up that I've had to go out to the shed in the freezing cold and strip a spare MC down just to convince myself that I'm not finally going senile... Subject on the slab: dual-circuit brake master cylinder extracted from a Mini of approximately mid-80s vintage. After removing the plastic fluid reservoirs and stop pin, components found within the cylinder bore, in the order that they come out: Rubber dust cover Circlip Pushrod with captive retainer washer Steel piston with seal fitted in groove at pushrod end Flat washer Cup-shaped seal Spring Steel piston with seal fitted in groove at pushrod end Flat washer Cup-shaped seal Spring That's it - nothing else in there. The end of the cylinder bore is blind, the takeoffs for the two braking circuits are simple cross drillings into the bore. Phew - I'm not going mad. I'm not arguing that non-return valves don't exist - I've seen one for myself on a VW master cylinder. I just don't ever recall having seen such a setup on a Mini. > Thanks a bunch. You've got me so mixed-up that I've had to go out to the > shed in the freezing cold and strip a spare MC down just to convince [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > myself on a VW master cylinder. I just don't ever recall having seen > such a setup on a Mini. Thanks for the strip down details, I have never stripped a twin circuit M/C and always wondered if my assumptions were right. The valves in question were definitely fitted to single circuit M/C's. You youngsters won't remember those I suppose. I seem to remember using a M/C without a valve at some time. Can't remember exactly how that changed the pedal feel though. To digress slightly, when I started to rally my Min, I had repeated problems with brake fade and regularly used to bend the brake pedal. Then I read that the later models of Mini had thicker brake pedals. I checked and the book was right so I fitted a later pedal and it didn't bend. Upon praising this mod to my navigator, he asked exactly what I considered was a late model Mini. I replied that it was post twin leading shoe brakes. So anything after 1964 was new when set alongside my car! I hasten to add that I was already running 7.5" discs on DS11 pads (anyone remember them) and I still got brake fade and red hot rotors. John >> Thanks a bunch. You've got me so mixed-up that I've had to go out to the >> shed in the freezing cold and strip a spare MC down just to convince [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >John I've rebuilt a number of the old 'tin can' single circuit brake master cylinders and not one had a non return valve. Just a threaded hole in the end where the brake pipe screwed into. I've not seen an official manual or any of the Haynes manuals that referred to one either.  SignatureChris Morriss >>> Thanks a bunch. You've got me so mixed-up that I've had to go out to the >>> shed in the freezing cold and strip a spare MC down just to convince [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >the end where the brake pipe screwed into. I've not seen an official >manual or any of the Haynes manuals that referred to one either. (Not quite true. The Haynes manual mentions a N.R.V but doesn't show it in the exploded diagrams). SignatureChris Morriss bond between mother and child, so why not consume it? Children or chicken breasts will work wonderfully also. 4 whole umbilical chords (or baby breasts, or chicken breasts) 4 thin slices of smoked ham, and Gruyere cheese Flour eggwash (milk and eggs) seasoned bread crumbs 1 onion minced salt pepper butter olive oil Pound the breasts flat (parboil first if using umbilical cords so they won?t be tough). Place a slice of ham and cheese on each, along with some minced onion then fold in half, trimming neatly. Dredge in flour, eggwash, then seasoned breadcrumbs; allow to sit for a few minutes. Saut? in butter and olive oil until golden brown, about 6 minutes on each side. Shish Kababes As old as the hills, this technique has employed seafood, beef, pork, lamb, poultry, and vegetables; just about anything can be grilled, and young humans are no exception! High quality marinade (Teriyaki and garlic perhaps) 1 inch cubes of tender meat, preferably from the nursery Onions bell peppers Wooden or metal skewers Marinate the meat overnight. Get the grill good and hot while placing meat, vegetables, and fruit such as pineapples or cherries on the skewers. Don?t be afraid to use a variety of meats. Grill to medium rare, serve with garlic cous-cous and saut?ed asparagus. Coffee and sherbet for desert then walnuts, cheese, and port. Cigars for the gentlemen (and ladies if they so desire)! Crock-Pot Crack Baby When the quivering, hopelessly addicted crack baby succ
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