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Car Forum / MINI / January 2005brake master cylinder
HI! Does anyone know what the differcne is between a diagonal split and a front to back split brake master cylinder? can i fit a split MC to a front to back with a servo and front brake disks? cheers all!! > HI! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > cheers all!! The front/back system is usually with disks, whereas the diagonal split is for drum brakes. The diameter of the cylinders is different and thus the threads on the brake lines are also different to avoid mixing them up. Anyway, if that's the modern servo (post 1989) you have, you need the late-model horizontal MC that is attached to the servo. And Elvis was sitting next to Nicholas Bales in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > Anyway, if that's the modern servo (post 1989) you have, you need the > late-model horizontal MC that is attached to the servo. Speaking of horizontal master cylinders, does anyone know if it's possible to transplant the horizontal type Metro m/c and servo to a Mini? The parts look almost identical to late-model Mini equipment with the servo and horizontal m/c. Anyone done this? (-AD-) <sp4mtrap@hotmail.com> wrote in news:MPG.1c603b3c96f50df79896a9 @news.individual.net: > And Elvis was sitting next to Nicholas Bales in the spaceship, which I > thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Anyone done this? I haven't seen this, but I have seen a Wilwood (I think) horizontal type system used on a race Mini and afaik that was a simple fit with *no* bodging required. Will try to find the details. s And Elvis was sitting next to splam in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > > Speaking of horizontal master cylinders, does anyone know if it's > > possible to transplant the horizontal type Metro m/c and servo to a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > system used on a race Mini and afaik that was a simple fit with *no* > bodging required. Will try to find the details. Thanks, I'd be grateful for anything you can find. The diagonal system was only used on the Mini for a little over a year from 1977 to 8/1978. It was used on both disks and drums. The disks were, of course, on the 1275GT with 12" wheels. I've been told that it was a really bad idea especially on the disk system. When a wheel cylinder would fail, braking would tend to spin the car. No personal experience. Is the system already plumbed for diagonal split? If not it's probably not a good idea to switch to it. A servo cannot be used on diagonal split systems. On the other hand a diagonal split master cylinder can be used in a front-back system since it has the same bore as the early non-UK front-rear systems (Canada and Ben-Lux countries). Some data: Diagonal Split Master cylinder bore 17.5mm Lockheed #LM12171 supercedes 4222-171 Rear wheel cylinder bore 12.7mm Front-rear Master cylinder bore 19/18mm bore Lockheed #LM1215121 supercedes MAP5121 Rear wheel cylinder bore 19mm Cheers, Kelley >> HI! >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Anyway, if that's the modern servo (post 1989) you have, you need the >late-model horizontal MC that is attached to the servo. The difference between the Diagonal and a front/back configuration is the way each applies pressure to the brakes. A diagonal MC will have two channels for lack of a better term, When the brakes are applied, pressure will be applied to the two channels, one channel will send praking pressure to one front wheel and one back wheel. the other channel will handle the opposite wheels. A front/back setup is the same except one channel will stop the front brakes and the other will stop the back. The advantage of the diagonal system is that if one channel fails, you will still be able to stop using one front and one back wheel. This will give you better control. The front/back arrangement could get you in big trouble during a failure because if a channel failed, all your braking power would be to either the front of back wheels. JB > HI! > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > cheers all!! And Elvis was sitting next to Joe Bisflik in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > The difference between the Diagonal and a front/back configuration is the > way each applies pressure to the brakes. A diagonal MC will have two [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > during a failure because if a channel failed, all your braking power would > be to either the front of back wheels. Diagonal split is mainly confined to larger cars nowadays. Smaller, shorter cars tend to have dual piston calipers, with one brake circuit operating one set of front pistons + rear brakes, and the other circuit the remaining front pistons. Either circuit fails, you still have working, balanced front brakes. > Diagonal split is mainly confined to larger cars nowadays. Smaller, > shorter cars tend to have dual piston calipers, with one brake circuit > operating one set of front pistons + rear brakes, and the other circuit > the remaining front pistons. Either circuit fails, you still have > working, balanced front brakes. The diagonal system on the Mini was quite hair-raising. The main difficulty is maintaining a consistent adjustment on all 4 drums, which, any drum-equipped Mini driver can testify, is quite ludicrous. The result with the system is that there is always enough imbalance to pull the car heavily to one side or the other to spin the car, depending on how the brakes are set up. I had this system on both a 1977 and 1978 Belgian-built 1100 Special. The first thing I did on the 2nd one was to pull out the whole circuit and to plumb in an entire disk brake circuit from a 1987 donor Mini. And Elvis was sitting next to Nicholas Bales in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda weird, but then they turned to me and said: > > Diagonal split is mainly confined to larger cars nowadays. Smaller, > > shorter cars tend to have dual piston calipers, with one brake circuit > > operating one set of front pistons + rear brakes, and the other circuit > > the remaining front pistons. Either circuit fails, you still have > > working, balanced front brakes. [diagonal split brakes] > I had this system on both a 1977 and 1978 Belgian-built 1100 Special. > The first thing I did on the 2nd one was to pull out the whole circuit > and to plumb in an entire disk brake circuit from a 1987 donor Mini. I have to admit that I don't like the idea of the front circuit failing on the front/rear split Mini setup, leaving just the rear brakes. Would probably take a long time to stop from any kind of speed, and heaven help you if you tried to steer ... I wonder if any of the many people who have fitted twin-circuit Metro calipers to their Minis have adapted it to the Mero system, as described above. Seems like it would be the safest way of doing dual-circuit in a Mini.
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