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Car Forum / MINI / August 2003sidedraft vs downdraft webers
I'm trying to find a second hand 45mm Weber at the moment (in Australia) and there aren't many around except at very high prices. new ones seem to be around $675, with manifold, linkages and filter closer to $1000 which is more than i hoped to spend... Downdraft 32/36mm Webers seem to be readily available here at relatively cheap prices. Are they a valid alternative to usual 45mm sidedraft? Geoff > I'm trying to find a second hand 45mm Weber at the moment (in Australia) and > there aren't many around except at very high prices. new ones seem to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Geoff I wouldn't use a downdraught. The gas route is pretty poor reducing efficiency. I would use an HIF44 in preference to one. The sidedraught Webers are excellent on the right engine but will require you to cut into the bulkhead of a standard Mini. But there is little point using one on anything less that a well modded 1380.  SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk say with a good SU carb, muck better and easy setup And Steve was sitting next to Elvis in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda strange, but then they turned to me and said: > I wouldn't use a downdraught. The gas route is pretty poor reducing > efficiency. I would use an HIF44 in preference to one. The sidedraught > Webers are excellent on the right engine but will require you to cut into > the bulkhead of a standard Mini. But there is little point using one on > anything less that a well modded 1380. DV reckons the downdraughts are a nice bit of kit, performance wise, with the drawback that you really need to cut a hole in the bonnet to if you want to be able to close it... Signature(-AD-) <uniqueid 'at' lineone.net> http://website.lineone.net/~uniqueid/ What is this 'Love' of which you Earth People speak?.. > > I wouldn't use a downdraught. The gas route is pretty poor reducing > > efficiency. I would use an HIF44 in preference to one. The sidedraught [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the drawback that you really need to cut a hole in the bonnet to if you > want to be able to close it... I favour the theory that the less torturous the gas route, the better the likely volumetric efficiency you could achieve. If the engine has to work hard dragging air around bends, it is wasting energy. DV's basic engine tuning concept is all about making the engine more efficient at rotating, so it frees up wasted energy. I am surprised he likes the downdraught. I'll need to dig out the book again and have another read!! SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk And Steve was sitting next to Elvis in the spaceship, which I thought was kinda strange, but then they turned to me and said: > > > I wouldn't use a downdraught. The gas route is pretty poor reducing > > > efficiency. I would use an HIF44 in preference to one. The sidedraught [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > it frees up wasted energy. I am surprised he likes the downdraught. I'll > need to dig out the book again and have another read!! He favours a manifold design that contains a large plenum chamber, which would tend to overcome the inherent inefficiencies of a 90 degree bend in the intake path at the cost of losing an amount of gas velocity at certain engine speeds. Personally, I've never obtained great results with Webers, either side or down draught. They always seem to be very finicky to set up for mid-range and cruise on the 5-port engines. Signature(-AD-) <uniqueid 'at' lineone.net> http://website.lineone.net/~uniqueid/ A cookbook! It's a cookbook! I've followed this thread with interest, Vizard does sing the praise of the downdraft, but also the Sidedraft...but reccomends for a good set up for power/perforamnce/economy/ ease of set up the MG Metro manifold and HS Su carb. I the UK and NZ its an easy matter to obtain the MG Metro set up as they were sold here & there...but Aussie never got to enjoy the privilidge of the Metro, let alone the MG version so they are nealry non existent. Setting up a webber of either kind can be difficult, but once set stay in tune better than twin Su's. However I myself for road use would not even entertain a webber. Noisey, gas guzzlers, not in them selves but because they invite heavey use of the loud peddle ! An easy solution for you Geoff is to obtain the MG Metro set up and run an LCB with twin box system, which any decent exhaust shop should be able to make for you. GIves you good reliable carbaration with a nice subtle exhaust note which isnt intrusive inside the car. If you have any problems getting the HS44 and suitable manifold I reccoemnd emailing Laurie at Axcell Automotive here in NZ, he has loads of carb & manifold units of cars he's wrecked. Might cost you a bit to post to Aussie, but overall your you'll find it less expensive than a Webber/mainfold and the associated hassles in setting it up email him direct at: minispecialist@xtra.co.nz Tell him Tim sent you, I see him most every day so I can talk to him for you. Tim > I'm trying to find a second hand 45mm Weber at the moment (in Australia) and > there aren't many around except at very high prices. new ones seem to be [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Geoff > I've followed this thread with interest, Vizard does sing the praise of the > downdraft, but also the Sidedraft...but reccomends for a good set up for [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Tim Thanks Tim, it certainly seems that the SU is the better way to go from what everyone is saying. The guys at Northern mini parts in Melbourne said they get HIF44's in from UK with manifolds and want about $200 or thereabouts. Otherwise i'll contact Axcell and see how much it will be to ship them over here. Thanks for the offer to talk to them for me, i'll let you know if I need it... I guess i should factor in an overhaul for the carb while I'm at it or should they usually be ok?? My final SU question is should i consider twin HS4's? Most of what i've read seems that people prefer the single SU for convenience (easier to setup / maintain) not for performance (I don't mind inconvenience if i get better results) or should i quit confusing myself with all of these choices and just buy a single? ok jeff i have a 1380 with a hif 44 on it on standard cut down manifold at the wheels we got 49.75 hp now the carb was out of tune the dizzy needed to be graphed and it was pinging so we stoped the dyno till i could save some cash and get it done properly so yup the 44 is great the 44 can be found on late modle jags and range rovers and put it on a heated manifold or a metro manofold makka > > I've followed this thread with interest, Vizard does sing the praise of > the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > results) or should i quit confusing myself with all of these choices and > just buy a single? I'd steer away from twin SU'd Geoff, nice carbs if you can set them up right but not many garages have the experience these days. Do you have the David Vizard book on building A Series engines at all?? Well worth the read, he's the guru on most things Mini...Im sure your have encountered him being quoted in this thread as well as others? You can get it through Amazon if you cant find it in Aussie, or email me direct and I'll scan the pages relating to SU's/Webbers etc for you. $200 is a good price for the HF unit with manifold, see if they have a better manifild option avalaible, if not you'll find they are actauly quite cheap in the UK through Mini Sport etc Tim > > I've followed this thread with interest, Vizard does sing the praise of > the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > results) or should i quit confusing myself with all of these choices and > just buy a single? > $200 is a good price for the HF unit with manifold, see if they have a > better manifild option avalaible, if not you'll find they are actauly quite > cheap in the UK through Mini Sport etc i know if you place an order with northern mini spares in the next few days before they head over to england you can order what ever you like from mini sport. cheers steve |
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