Car Forum / MINI / January 2006
'Italian Job' Memorabilia To Be Auctioned
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D.J. - 24 Jan 2006 20:16 GMT From IMDB.com: http://us.imdb.com/news/wenn/#celeb1
'Italian Job' Memorabilia To Be Auctioned The Mini Cooper number plates from 1969 movie The Italian Job will be auctioned in the UK later this week. The three plates, which worked within the plot to signify Sir Michael Caine's character's prison number HMP 729G, the robbery gang's flight number LGW 809G and Grand Prix flag number GPF 146G, are expected to raise up to $36,000 at Cheffins Auctioneers in Cambridge, England, on Thursday. A Cheffins spokesman says, "These are certainly a lot for the dedicated Italian Job fan - or maybe Michael Caine himself might be interested." The Minis are most famous for the chase scene in the 1969 movie, where they speed through the narrow streets of Turin, Italy. The Italian Job was remade in 2003.
** - 24 Jan 2006 21:27 GMT > From IMDB.com: http://us.imdb.com/news/wenn/#celeb1 > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > in the 1969 movie, where they speed through the narrow streets of Turin, > Italy. The Italian Job was remade in 2003. Hi, The Italian Job was not remade. It was a different film with different cars but the same name. K
Fitzy - 24 Jan 2006 22:47 GMT >> From IMDB.com: http://us.imdb.com/news/wenn/#celeb1 >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > but the same name. > K Nice one "K"..... spot on I like that ......... ;-) Fitzy
D.J. - 25 Jan 2006 06:32 GMT Don't have to tell mME that, I know. I just cut and pasted the clip from the IMDB.com website as per the HTML link IN the messsage....
>> From IMDB.com: http://us.imdb.com/news/wenn/#celeb1 >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > but the same name. > K Taffy - 25 Jan 2006 14:12 GMT > Don't have to tell mME that, I know. I just cut and pasted the clip > from the IMDB.com website as per the HTML link IN the messsage.... [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > but the same name. > > K Yes they should have called it The LA Job and I hope some sad twat doesn't put these numbers on a BINI.
Taffy
** - 25 Jan 2006 17:51 GMT > > Don't have to tell mME that, I know. I just cut and pasted the clip > > from the IMDB.com website as per the HTML link IN the messsage.... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Taffy Ye, that would be the ultimate insult to the world's most famous car.
Keith
Madmax - 25 Jan 2006 19:06 GMT > Ye, that would be the ultimate insult to the world's most famous car. > > Keith World's most famous car,hee hee, that's pretty funny. Maybe England's most famous car, definitely not the world. And the world is a big place.
David Betts - 26 Jan 2006 07:40 GMT >> Ye, that would be the ultimate insult to the world's most famous car. >> >> Keith >> >World's most famous car,hee hee, that's pretty funny. Maybe England's >most famous car, definitely not the world. And the world is a big place. The world is a big place, and the Mini did win the definitive world vote for 'Car of the 20th Century', beating the Beetle and the Model T. It was only the US vote in which the Model T came top.
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
Madmax - 26 Jan 2006 14:47 GMT >>>Ye, that would be the ultimate insult to the world's most famous car. >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The Mini Gallery: > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=13660703 Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about "this" century. And as far as votes from the US....how much bigger are we than you?
The Muffin Man - 26 Jan 2006 20:26 GMT > Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about "this" century. And as far > as votes from the US....how much bigger are we than you? Not big enough to eclipse 'the rest of the world'.
The Muffin Man
Madmax - 26 Jan 2006 20:31 GMT >>Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about "this" century. And as far >>as votes from the US....how much bigger are we than you? > > Not big enough to eclipse 'the rest of the world'. > > The Muffin Man Wanna bet.
The Muffin Man - 27 Jan 2006 08:50 GMT > Wanna bet. Can't beat it when people conform to stereotype in a bid to break from it.
The Muffin Man
David Betts - 27 Jan 2006 07:41 GMT >> The world is a big place, and the Mini did win the definitive world >> vote for 'Car of the 20th Century', beating the Beetle and the Model >> T. It was only the US vote in which the Model T came top. > >Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were talking about "this" century. And as >far as votes from the US....how much bigger are we than you? I think if a car was famous as little as five years ago, it is likely to be famous still, don't you? I'm not sure anybody is desperately worried about that fact that the USA is bigger than the UK. After all, iwe are both so much smaller than China <g>. Are you capable of intelligent conversation about the Mini? If not, please go away.
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
madmax - 28 Jan 2006 02:04 GMT > I think if a car was famous as little as five years ago, it is likely > to be famous still, don't you? I'm not sure anybody is desperately [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The Mini Gallery: > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334 Go away,,,,I think not. Not after the warm welcome I received on my first post here. And if a car was soooo famous five years ago, why did they go flat broke and sell out to BMW? Probably from lack of interest. Now the world is taking notice and the new and improved product is selling like hot cakes.
David Betts - 28 Jan 2006 07:38 GMT >> I think if a car was famous as little as five years ago, it is likely >> to be famous still, don't you? I'm not sure anybody is desperately [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >first post here. And if a car was soooo famous five years ago, why did >they go flat broke and sell out to BMW? Probably from lack of interest. It would appear that you do not know anything about the history of Morris, Austin, BMC or any of the other parent companies of the Mini, but ignorance is no excuse for your attitude. Continued production of the real Mini was specifically forbidden by BMW when they sold the Rover Group because they were not prepared to face the comparison with their own product.
The new so-called MINI is an ordinary modern car. The Mini is one of the greatest cars of all time. There is no room for argument here. It is a fact. End of story.
Now please don't excpect me to waste my time with you any more. Just reply once to confirm that you are the moron we all think you are.
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
madmax - 28 Jan 2006 07:55 GMT Don't want to let you down Dave, so here is my reply. Anyway you didn't address my question at all. You therefore are the moron. I asked if the mini was soooo popular, why did they go belly up, and sell to BMW. As you stated, before BMW, there were many companies taking over production. Looks like it never really got off the ground for long. Actually the new production mini is selling more cars than ever. Why is that?
Steve68s - 28 Jan 2006 09:53 GMT Your the Moron madmax, out voted, now go away :-)
Steve.
PS the new Bini sells because there are a lot of people like you are buying them, Idiots,
> Don't want to let you down Dave, so here is my reply. Anyway you didn't > address my question at all. You therefore are the moron. I asked if the > mini was soooo popular, why did they go belly up, and sell to BMW. As you > stated, before BMW, there were many companies taking over production. > Looks like it never really got off the ground for long. Actually the new > production mini is selling more cars than ever. Why is that? Taffy - 28 Jan 2006 15:06 GMT > Your the Moron madmax, out voted, now go away :-) > > Steve. > > PS the new Bini sells because there are a lot of people like you are buying > them, Idiots, Yes and they are buying them because they are compact BMW's, cheap BMW's, made by BMW and sold by BMW that happen to bare the name of a more famous car and little more really and there a hundreds of hatchbacks but there was really only one Mini. If you want a quick run down on all the facts look at my website: http://minis.freeservers.com/ it's basic but it's pretty much all in there. The reason we all love the Mini here is because we've lived with it for over 46 years, we've grown up with it and a hatchback sold by BMW can wear whatever name it likes but it doesn't replace the real thing.
Taffy
> > Don't want to let you down Dave, so here is my reply. Anyway you didn't > > address my question at all. You therefore are the moron. I asked if the > > mini was soooo popular, why did they go belly up, and sell to BMW. As you > > stated, before BMW, there were many companies taking over production. > > Looks like it never really got off the ground for long. Actually the new > > production mini is selling more cars than ever. Why is that? madmax - 28 Jan 2006 22:32 GMT Are you guys dense? You keep insulting me and the new mini. I didn't say anything bad about the original mini and its different manufacturers. All I asked is, if it was so popular , why did it sell to BMW ? Actually, this is on topic, for a change. Why are you getting so irate?
David Betts - 30 Jan 2006 08:19 GMT >Are you guys dense? You keep insulting me and the new mini. I didn't say >anything bad about the original mini and its different manufacturers. >All I asked is, if it was so popular , why did it sell to BMW ? >Actually, this is on topic, for a change. Why are you getting so irate? You want a serious answer? Even though you are still trolling I will oblige for the benefit of others. The restructuring (some would say collapse) of the British motor industry through the '70s, '80s and into the '90s was nothing to do with the success or otherwise of the Mini or any other individual product. It had everything to do with bad management, union militancy and feather-bedding by successive socialist governments. The final act but one in the long-running BMC/BMH/BL/Rover Group saga was when ownership of the rump transferred from British Aerospace to BMW. BMW asset-stripped the company of what it considered to be of value - the Mini brand and Land Rover technology - sold off what it could and cast the rest adrift.
The reason BMW asset-stripped the Mini brand was because of the Mini's reputation as one of the greatest and best-loved cars of all time - not because it was some sort of failure. Even then, none of us would have minded very much if they had produced something worthwhile. Unfortunately, they chose to attach the name to a conventional, overly-large hatchback with a few rather naff retro styling cues. It may be a quite decent car, but it is clearly an insult to the real thing. It is also rather poor value compared with much of the competition. If people choose to buy it, that's up to them. What they should not do, however, is to believe that they are in any sense buying in to the Mini tradition. They are not.
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
Taffy - 30 Jan 2006 11:28 GMT > >Are you guys dense? You keep insulting me and the new mini. I didn't say > >anything bad about the original mini and its different manufacturers. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > The Mini Gallery: > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334 Couldn't have said it better myself and for decades with our Mini, we never had it so good for so long!
Taffy
Taffy - 30 Jan 2006 12:15 GMT > > >Are you guys dense? You keep insulting me and the new mini. I didn't say > > >anything bad about the original mini and its different manufacturers. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Taffy The other factor is that although the Mini was an outstanding success, brought home the trophies on the world's rally and race circuits of the world, exceeded beyond all expectations etc, etc, and sold like hot cakes for decades, it didn't actually earn the company much of a profit if any. The manufacturing process was very labour intensive, basically a small army of people constructed Mini's and the tooling cost a fortune to install, by the mid 1960's the accountants claimed they weren't charging enough for them and Ford (who were kicking themselves because they didn't have a similar product) took one and stripped it and priced every nut and bolt and concluded they must be losing money on every one sold! In fact a replacement Mini was designed for the 1970's a prototype still exists and was built around 1968 but British Leyland took control and that got shelved and Leyland concentrated on sorting the larger cars in its fleet out instead (I'm glad it got shelved as it was horrible anyway). Then from around the mid 1970's we were all aware Leyland were working on a New Mini! (yes we've heard it all before), anyway we got glimpses on the TV of a car with a cover over it claiming to be the successor for years, then in late 1980 the Austin MiniMetro (or just Metro as it became known) was launched. Anyway this larger mid-sized hatchback was constructed by robots, so the profits were huge. The Mini however wasn't axed although the range was severly cut down and production numbers lowered because Rover wanted the Metro to succeed because it would return a healthy profit. Anyway the Mini was a bit neglected in the 1980's and the range was slowly being fazed out with 1987 being the year it would finally be axed, but then new management took control and instead of axing it they raised it's profile and started advertising it again just to point out it was still being made! They said at the time that if people wanted to buy it then they would still produce it and it may not make huge profits but it was still a good little earner and anyway by then all the tooling was paid for. Then in 1989 Rover threw a 30th Birthday Celebration for the car at Silverstone and people came in their thousands and Rover were a tad surprised by the response and this combined with the massive interest shown by Japan led Rover to relaunch the Mini Cooper. Then many say the reason BMW moved into take Rover was because it's then chairman Bernd Pitchesreider (a Mini fan) was a distant cousin of Issigonis and BMW wanted it's own VW Golf, but what they actually wanted was a Golf type car using the Mini brand. When Rover caused them problems, he got sacked and Rover got dumped but BMW took the Mini name anyway, unfortunatley after this event their behaviour towards Mini specialists (trying to force them to stop using the name Mini) here and the fact they've turned their backs on the original didn't endear them to enthusiasts and that's why there's the hostility now. But even if the BINI was being made in Longbridge and sold in Rover dealerships, it still wouldn't be accepted by most classic owners I don't think, well we never fell in love with the Metro and that was designed to be the Mini's replacement, no the original Mini was and still is unique, there's nothing else quite like it and there never will be. As I said, we never had it so good, for so long!
Taffy
Taffy - 30 Jan 2006 13:39 GMT > > > >Are you guys dense? You keep insulting me and the new mini. I didn't > say [quoted text clipped - 85 lines] > > Taffy You may never get to drive an original, but buy the classic movie The Italian Job (1969) it captures the cheeky nature of these little cars and shows what formidable machines they really are, ok they get thrown off a cliff at the end, but that's movies for you, but yes watch this and you might understand us better.
Taffy
David Betts - 31 Jan 2006 07:50 GMT >The other factor is that although the Mini was an outstanding success, >brought home the trophies on the world's rally and race circuits of the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >product) took one and stripped it and priced every nut and bolt and >concluded they must be losing money on every one sold! All true up to a point. It isn't possible to make large profits on a low cost item. The Ford 'bean-counting' exercise can be largely discounted. The guys who did the research gave Ford management the answer it wanted. Back then, Ford were still building antiques with linear drive trains, solid axles and cart springs and didn't want to believe that a truly modern car could be built at a competitive price. (The Mini was, of course, the first truly modern car and almost everything we drive today is based on it.)
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
Taffy - 31 Jan 2006 14:02 GMT > >The other factor is that although the Mini was an outstanding success, > >brought home the trophies on the world's rally and race circuits of the [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > The Mini Gallery: > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334 I stand corrected sir.
Taffy
Madmax - 30 Jan 2006 14:57 GMT Thank you David. That was all I asked.
Madmax - 25 Jan 2006 17:25 GMT > Hi, > The Italian Job was not remade. It was a different film with different cars > but the same name. > K Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the movie. In an interview with Charlize Theron, the actress who drove it, she stated that the car had to be altered for her to fit in it. In the later part of the movie they do use three of the new mini's. Mark Wahlberg and Jason Statham , in the same interview, said they found the new mini to have much more leg room and that the new mini cooper s outperformed the older mini.
Mark
David Betts - 26 Jan 2006 07:49 GMT >> The Italian Job was not remade. It was a different film with different cars >> but the same name. >> >Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the >movie. In an interview with Charlize Theron, the actress who drove it, >she stated that the car had to be altered for her to fit in it. That is clearly nonsense. The Mini's driving position may be unusual, but they can be driven by people of all shapes and sizes... although anyone over about 6ft 7in would probably choose to drive from the back seat. (I'm not joking, it's been done.)
> In the >later part of the movie they do use three of the new mini's. Mark >Wahlberg and Jason Statham , in the same interview, said they found the >new mini to have much more leg room and that the new mini cooper s >outperformed the older mini. Of course the new so-called MINI has more leg room... in the front. After all, it is not a small car, it is just a short car. That is why it has no leg room in the back and not enough boot space to fit a spare wheel. The brilliantly packaged Mini has far more useable space in a much smaller car.
The Mini in the film is clearly a late model Mpi and probably bog standard. Of course the modern turbocharged car would be faster. Didn't outhandle it, though, did it? Anyway, there is no comparison. The Mini had all the class in the world - the imposters had none atall.
Now, pitch a pastiche Cooper S against a real Cooper S in mixed motoring and I'd bet on the real thing every time. How many Monte Carlo rallies has the new thing won? How many races? How many championships? (Other than against itself in one-make series, of course.)
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
Taffy - 26 Jan 2006 14:45 GMT > >> The Italian Job was not remade. It was a different film with different cars > >> but the same name. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > The Mini Gallery: > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334 Yes and the the getaway in the Mini Coopers through the streets of Turin is often voted the best movie car chase of all time, well that's what it says here with regards to the 1969 original: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4636460.stm and I've seen this film hundreds of times and I never grow tired of it, but if you haven't actually seen the movie then you really wouldn't understand?
Taffy
madmax - 27 Jan 2006 01:18 GMT >>>The Italian Job was not remade. It was a different film with different cars >>>but the same name. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > The Mini Gallery: > http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334 Just quoting what the actors stated on the dvd.
David Betts - 27 Jan 2006 07:45 GMT >Just quoting what the actors stated on the dvd. Whoaaa! Must be true then. Ever heard of product placement? Did you know that companies pay to get their products advertised in films? I guess the employees know who pays the bills.
I think I'd prefer to trust respected motoring journalists and my own experience, thank you.
Regards, David Betts davidb@minilist.org The Mini Gallery: http://www.ofoto.com/I.jsp?m=64635537103&n=1366070334
The Muffin Man - 26 Jan 2006 20:27 GMT > Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the The new(ish) film with the name 'The Italian Job' did not bill itself as a remake but as a sequel.
The Muffin Man
** - 26 Jan 2006 20:34 GMT > > Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the > > The new(ish) film with the name 'The Italian Job' did not bill itself as a > remake but as a sequel. > > The Muffin Man How could it possibly be called a "sequel?" It has different cars, and different characters, different locations and a totally different "storyline"
K
The Muffin Man - 27 Jan 2006 08:50 GMT >> > Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > different characters, different locations and a totally different > "storyline" Sequels don't have to have the same script, cast, and locations. That is a remake - or what you describe would probably be better called 'copying the master tape of the original film'. A sequel can do whatever it wants.
And it was billed as a sequel. Child of crook takes cash from the man who took her father from her.
The Muffin Man
Madmax - 26 Jan 2006 20:34 GMT >>Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the > > The new(ish) film with the name 'The Italian Job' did not bill itself as a > remake but as a sequel. > > The Muffin Man OK... Keith was the one talking about a remake.
Taffy - 27 Jan 2006 15:44 GMT > >>Actually, in the first part of the remake, there is an old mini in the > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > OK... Keith was the one talking about a remake. Have you seen today's papers? The mirror reports: GPF 146G HMP 729G LGW 809G These old number plates from the Mini Coopers which starred in the original Italian Job with Michael Caine were almost worth their weight in gold after fetching £19,800 at auction in Cambridge yesterday.
Taffy
The Muffin Man - 27 Jan 2006 15:52 GMT > Have you seen today's papers? The mirror reports: GPF 146G HMP 729G > LGW 809G These old number plates from the Mini Coopers which starred > in > the original Italian Job with Michael Caine were almost worth their weight > in gold after fetching £19,800 at auction in Cambridge yesterday. Does it include entitlement to put it on a car or just the piece of metal used in the film?
The Muffin Man
Taffy - 27 Jan 2006 15:54 GMT > > Have you seen today's papers? The mirror reports: GPF 146G HMP 729G > > LGW 809G These old number plates from the Mini Coopers which starred [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > The Muffin Man Doesn't say.
Taffy
Taffy - 27 Jan 2006 18:41 GMT > > > Have you seen today's papers? The mirror reports: GPF 146G HMP 729G > > > LGW 809G These old number plates from the Mini Coopers which starred [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Taffy Unfortunately the piece of metal used in the film doesn't actually exist anyway, by the time they'd finished filming they'd destroyed a hefty number of Mini's and none survived.
Taffy
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