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Car Forum / MINI / November 2003Replaced front rubber cones - ride height uneven
On Saturday I replaced the front rubber cones on my 1998 Cooper - it was previously sitting on the bump stops. All went well, or at least I thought it did... I drove nearly 100 miles in it yesterday, but looking at it this morning, I thought the passenger side at the front looked higher than the drivers side. So I measured it - it is about 3/4 inch higher at the wheel arch. I know it will take some time to settle down properly, but 3/4 inch seems a big difference. I'm pretty sure I seated the cones correctly in the subframe, although I did rely on my wife to hold them while I screwed in the compressor... But surely the load on them would push them into correct location even if she let one move slightly? The knuckle joints were fine, and there isn't much else to go wrong. Problem is that if I've got to pull it apart again, I'd prefer to do it sooner rather than later, because of winter coming on and having to work on it outside. Have I done something wrong, or is it likely to settle down level after a bit more time? Roger. > On Saturday I replaced the front rubber cones on my 1998 Cooper - it > was previously sitting on the bump stops. All went well, or at least I [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Roger. Yes it will take a little while for the passenger side to settle, If the mini usually only has you in it then you might want to 'weigh down' the passenger side with some sand bags whilst it settles!! (Assuming that yes they are sitting in the subframe turrets correctly) TTFN, Dave http://www.icklemini.co.uk Check the trumpet hasn't popped back out out of the cone. this happened to me once (just after replacing the cones) wrecking the cone. Dean. > > On Saturday I replaced the front rubber cones on my 1998 Cooper - it > > was previously sitting on the bump stops. All went well, or at least I [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Dave > http://www.icklemini.co.uk > The knuckle joints were fine, and there isn't much else to go wrong. > Problem is that if I've got to pull it apart again, I'd prefer to do [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Roger. It is unusual for the knuckles to be OK. The main wear is in the plastic cups. How did you measure the wear in these? We would normally recommend replacing the knuckle joints when changing rubber cones, simply because of the small cost and major aggro if it all has to come back out later! But, give it a while to see if it settles out evenly over the next few weeks. If not, it may need knuckle joints. And have you checked the rear? If the rear is uneven it would obviously affect the front too.  SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk > On Saturday I replaced the front rubber cones on my 1998 Cooper - it > was previously sitting on the bump stops. All went well, or at least I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the drivers side. So I measured it - it is about 3/4 inch higher at > the wheel arch. [snip] So today I took the cone out again on the passenger side, just in case it wasn't properly seated, but it was, and now I've put it back together, I've still got 3/4 inch difference... Someone asked if I was sure the knuckle joints are ok - They certainly look ok (the car has only done 10k miles). Also, I've measured from the bottom of the trumpet to the top of the suspension arm on both sides, and the measurements are identical. There is also 3/4 inch difference in ride height at the back, so I guess it's now a question of which end the problem is at! Do the back cones "go off" as quickly as the front? Roger. > There is also 3/4 inch difference in ride height at the back, Thats good, because if there wasn't then either the car would have a 3/4"twist in the body, or your local ground is not flat. > so I guess it's now a question of which end the problem is at! Jack the rear of the car in the very centre so it's not supported on either rear wheel and is free to lean as the front suspension dictates. Do likewise for the front.... Have you considered swapping the front cones? > > On Saturday I replaced the front rubber cones on my 1998 Cooper - it > > was previously sitting on the bump stops. All went well, or at least I [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Roger. Mine did this from new so i don't think it's not normal.You have more weight on the left side then on the right with the feul tank and so on. >>peakboston@hotmail.com (Roger) wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Mine did this from new so i don't think it's not normal.You have more weight > on the left side then on the right with the feul tank and so on. If as you say that the cup and ball have not collapsed. You may have to pack the ball out with washers to adjust the height and this will effect the diagonal height as well. Someone has the height figures (its like 1:3, 1:4) not sure for now would have to reference it. Like a couple of millimeters packing will correct it. > If as you say that the cup and ball have not collapsed. > > You may have to pack the ball out with washers to adjust the height and > this will effect the diagonal height as well. What do you mean by "diagonal height"? The car is essentially a rigid body. any lean to the left or right is a result of differences in the ride height setting at both ends. If the left rear and right front corners are preloaded higher, the car may sit level whilst having more down force on those two corners. This is why you need to jack up the middle of the back of the car to find out if the front suspension is the problem, and vice versa. > Someone has the height figures (its like 1:3, 1:4) not sure for now > would have to reference it. Like a couple of millimeters packing will > correct it. The ratios are said to be 1:3 at the front and 1:5 at the rear. >>If as you say that the cup and ball have not collapsed. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > front suspension is the problem, and vice versa. > Yes correct and you have isolated the front from the back. If you collapse the front right then the back left should show a height difference, and its not necessary that the front be the problem in its own. Being a rigid body with independent suspension preloads it can pivot through the diagonal showing height differences. We have one now that I know has - 2 washers on the rear right and 1 washer on the front left - sits very nice thankyou. There is another to be set up shortly and that will not come out without some packing. Most new rubber components are not like the older product and I can guess there is no quality control in the manufacture of after market classic parts - as long as you can replace them they will be good enough. I keep on buying window corner rubbers and pedal rubbers for the MG as they fall apart no elasticity. ball joint covers just split 2yrs max. >>Someone has the height figures (its like 1:3, 1:4) not sure for now >>would have to reference it. Like a couple of millimeters packing will >>correct it. > > The ratios are said to be 1:3 at the front and 1:5 at the rear. That sounds about right knew it was greater at the rear not sure on amount. [snip] >Most new rubber components are not like the older product and I can >guess there is no quality control in the manufacture of after market >classic parts - as long as you can replace them they will be good >enough. I keep on buying window corner rubbers and pedal rubbers for the >MG as they fall apart no elasticity. ball joint covers just split 2yrs max. The cones I bought and fitted, that resulted in the message that started this thread, had the same Dunlop part number embossed on them as the ones I took out. One thing for sure is that the originals had definitely 'gone off' - the rubber seemed to have lost all elasticity. They had only done 10k miles, so it appears to be as a result of aging rather than use. Having once worked in a tyre factory, I would say they might not have been cured properly. Perhaps they used a bad batch on some of the late Coopers, and that's why some people say that the later cones were softer? SignatureRoger My mini could do with the front raising so i want to pack it with washers can anyone give me a janet and john guide going into as much detail as possible on how to do it. or even point me at some diagrams. Cheers Jamie > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Perhaps they used a bad batch on some of the late Coopers, and that's > why some people say that the later cones were softer? > My mini could do with the front raising so i want to pack it with washers > can anyone give me a janet and john guide going into as much detail as [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jamie remove the cone and that has a steel ball at one end - remove the ball from it and insert washers between to raise it to the required height. Firstly check that the cup in which the ball sits is not worn. If the cup is worn then this in itself will alter the height. You require the rubber (spring) compressor to remove the parts. This inserts through the top and compressors the rubber so that there easily removed. Look in maintenance manual for the tool and how to use it. >>[snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>Perhaps they used a bad batch on some of the late Coopers, and that's >>why some people say that the later cones were softer? > > My mini could do with the front raising so i want to pack it with washers > > can anyone give me a janet and john guide going into as much detail as [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > inserts through the top and compressors the rubber so that there easily > removed. Look in maintenance manual for the tool and how to use it. Don't pack it out too far though. The loss of location in the aluminium trumpet can cause it break out the side. Not nice at 70mph! Ultimately, the answer is to correct the problem, not hide it by packing with washers. Replacement of the worn components is always the best solution. SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk Is there anyway I could use split washers which would remove the way for a cone compressor? Thanks > > > My mini could do with the front raising so i want to pack it with > washers [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > with washers. Replacement of the worn components is always the best > solution. > Is there anyway I could use split washers which would remove the way for a > cone compressor? Nope, but even if it was possible to remove the compression merely by raising the car until the wheel is off the ground, then it would be possible for the washer to escape. |
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