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Car Forum / MINI / January 2004brakes
going to fit a turbo lump in a mini and will want the thing to stop, and would like to fit the metro vented disc's (4 pots) what's the best way of plumbing them split . front / rear . or diagonally and anybody recommend size of rear drum cylinders > going to fit a turbo lump in a mini and will want the thing to stop, and > would like to fit the metro vented disc's (4 pots) > what's the best way of plumbing them > split . front / rear . or diagonally and anybody recommend > size of rear drum cylinders Front/rear split is best. You can bridge the two ports on the calipers or you could work out some way of replicating the Metro or ERA setup. There are hose kits readily available to bridge the ports, so this is the easiest option. I have to ask the question, though, are you currently running with 8.4" solid discs? If so, why change? These are perfectly capable of just about anything you throw at a Mini. You would have to be doing some seriously silly things to overheat them. The only thing vented discs do for you is to help with cooling. The 4 pot calipers apply a greater force because of the larger piston area, but you can lock up the standard brakes easily anyway. You can't achieve any greater braking force than that.  SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk ^^^^^ Agreed. I fitted vented brakes to my last turbo car. Very good brakes but perhaps unnecessary. Your better off spending your money making sure that the set you've got is in top condition. (Decent pads, new disks new seals and pistons and hoses if needed .) I now am running 'S' disks on my latest car and they seem good, but I'm still running the engine in and haven't been able to give it enought stick yet! If you are determined to add extra weight to your car then you will need. 1. Mini hubs off 8.4" disk model (Never use Metro Hubs) 2. Caliper bolts off a mini ERA Turbo. (Rover or mini specialist) The mini ones are too short, and the Metro ones are metric! 3. Drive flange's from the Metro (You will probably need to remove the four lugs, depending on your wheel choice) 4. A conversion pipe kit that joins 2-1 (Around ?30 from mini specialists) And of course Metro calipers, disks and pads. > > going to fit a turbo lump in a mini and will want the thing to stop, and > > would like to fit the metro vented disc's (4 pots) [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > larger piston area, but you can lock up the standard brakes easily anyway. > You can't achieve any greater braking force than that. You said you are running Cooper S discs is this without a servo? I am in the process of rebuilding one of my Minis with S discs and I'm undecided as to whether to fit a servo from one of the later cars. I am verging on the no servo. Any one going to shout "don't do it! You've got to fit a servo with S discs" and then tell me why? Peter www.wannop.co.uk > ^^^^^ Agreed. > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > steve@dsnclassics.co.uk > > www.dsnclassics.co.uk > Any one going to shout "don't do it! You've got to fit a servo with S discs" > and then tell me why? You've got to fit 5/8" rear wheel cylinders in place of the 3/4" rear wheel cylinders when you fit S disks to the front of a drum brake Mini. The reason for this is that for a given line pressure (or for a given pedal pressure) you get a greater braking effort from the disks than for drums, so you need the smaller rear cylinders to keep the brake balance somewhere near reasonable. On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. I think you have the reason reversed. Going from 3/4 to 5/8 results in less braking in the rear. To compensate you have to make the area of the pistons smaller. It usually takes more pedal force for discs than drums since drums are somewhat self actuating. SignatureLarry Silkaitis (Owned by six cats: two grey, one black, white, black and white, and grey and white) > > Any one going to shout "don't do it! You've got to fit a servo with S discs" > > and then tell me why? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal > effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. > > On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal > > effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. > I think you have the reason reversed. Going from 3/4 to 5/8 results in less > braking in the rear. To compensate you have to make the area of the pistons > smaller. It usually takes more pedal force for discs than drums since drums > are somewhat self actuating. Arrrrrghhhhh..... Less braking at the rear is what is needed when going from drums to discs. It is very easy to lock the rear wheels with Cooper S discs and 3/4" rear cylinders. We have known people prefer to go as far as 1/2" rear cylinders. Of course, any other cylinder has the location pin in a different place. SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk > I think you have the reason reversed. Going from 3/4 to 5/8 results in less > braking in the rear. To compensate you have to make the area of the pistons [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal > > effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. The Cooper 'S' used both 5/8" and 3/4" rear wheel cylinders. These all used the same master cylinder and the same rear brake regulator. It appears that the factory didn't think it mattered Cheers, Kelley >> Any one going to shout "don't do it! You've got to fit a servo with S discs" >> and then tell me why? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal >effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. > The Cooper 'S' used both 5/8" and 3/4" rear wheel cylinders. These > all used the same master cylinder and the same rear brake regulator. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Kelley We have the discs on. The set up is straight from a clubman car, with tandem M/C, prop valve, front and rear drums. All that was changed was the fronts to discs. No booster. This setup works fine it does not lockup rears and the balance is good. I did think of changing the rear cylinder - didn't because the rears were fairly new at the time. I do think that the early cars had 5/8 and later ones had 3/4 irrespective of discs or drums on the front. Boosters were used mainly for the very early S cars than have extremely small setup which still didn't work even with the booster. (Drums were more efficient) r >>>Any one going to shout "don't do it! You've got to fit a servo with S discs" >>>and then tell me why? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal >>effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. On the pickup I have later rear drums and 8.4 discs with no servo and I never lock up the rear only the front - that is with no servo. More to the point there is no weight in the back so you would expect to lock up the rears...... The Muffin Man > > The Cooper 'S' used both 5/8" and 3/4" rear wheel cylinders. These > > all used the same master cylinder and the same rear brake regulator. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >>On that basis, if you have no problem with the current brake pedal > >>effort with unboosted drums, then you'll be fine with unboosted disks. > > The Cooper 'S' used both 5/8" and 3/4" rear wheel cylinders. These > > all used the same master cylinder and the same rear brake regulator. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > more efficient) > r All Cooper S fitted with single line brakes used 5/8" rear cylinders. This includes UK and export models. All these models used the fixed pressure regulator valve on the rear subframe. The last of the Mk3's fitted with tandem brakes used 11/16" rear cylinders. These cars used the inertia type regulator valve on the rear subframe. When the later stepped bore tandem master cylinder is used, the 3/4" rear cylinders work fine. I suspect this is what you have fitted. SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk Servos are for girls! Seriously though if I used my car as a every day driver, then I might be tempted to go for a servo, but they are manageable without. That said I have driven mini's with every brake setup and 'S' disks have got to be the hardest on the legs. On a turbo mini a servo just fills the engine bay even more, so I think their too much hassle. > You said you are running Cooper S discs is this without a servo? > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > > steve@dsnclassics.co.uk > > > www.dsnclassics.co.uk Give me a servo any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Remember the early "Non servo"VW Polos, Adrenalin --- Brown trousers --- and legs went to "Jelly", syndrome, all in all,, a good fun car, Fitzy > Servos are for girls! > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > > > steve@dsnclassics.co.uk > > > > www.dsnclassics.co.uk > Give me a servo any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, > Remember the early "Non servo"VW Polos, > Adrenalin --- Brown trousers --- and legs went to "Jelly", syndrome, The brown trousers are when my non-servo pickup skids down the street. I don't need any more braking power!! The Muffin Man > > Give me a servo any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, > > Remember the early "Non servo"VW Polos, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > The Muffin Man You need a servo if you have weak legs! All it does is reduce the pedal effort required to achieve a specific force at the wheels. As you say, Muffy, you can lock up a standard drum braked Mini. This is the maximum 'braking force' you can achieve. Fitting a servo in these circumstances simply makes it easier to lock up the wheels. SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk I have discs and press no harder than in the missus servoed metro to make it skid. The Muffin Man > > > Give me a servo any day,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, > > > Remember the early "Non servo"VW Polos, [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > steve@dsnclassics.co.uk > www.dsnclassics.co.uk > I have discs and press no harder than in the missus servoed metro to make it > skid. > > The Muffin Man But you have to take into account that there are many differences between to two vehicles. Tyre diameter and grip levels. Brake pad swept area. Caliper piston area. Master cylinder piston area. Servo boost ratio. Brake pedal ratio. Vehicle mass and weight transfer. All these things, and no doubt more, make the comparison impossible. SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk So basicaly,, the servo just makes it easier to make the car skid, :-) MC&HNY Fitzy > > I have discs and press no harder than in the missus servoed metro to make > it [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Vehicle mass and weight transfer. > All these things, and no doubt more, make the comparison impossible. > > I have discs and press no harder than in the missus servoed metro to make > it [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > steve@dsnclassics.co.uk > www.dsnclassics.co.uk My opinioanted view on servo brakes in mini's...... they dont make the brakes better. they lose a bit of feel. they need a bit less effort to operate. the servo is next to useless on performance engines with larger carbs and long duration cams. (less vacuum on overrun) I've never liked them on mini's, but thats only because of the reduction in feel, if you are used to them on your eurocrudbucket then feel free.... Jim > My opinioanted view on servo brakes in mini's...... > they dont make the brakes better. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jim I never used a servo on my Midget race car for the same reason, but for everyday road use the reduced pedal effort can be more important than a small loss in 'feel'. SignatureRgds Steve steve@dsnclassics.co.uk www.dsnclassics.co.uk thanks 4 all input will have to sit and thing > going to fit a turbo lump in a mini and will want the thing to stop, and > would like to fit the metro vented disc's (4 pots) > what's the best way of plumbing them > split . front / rear . or diagonally and anybody recommend > size of rear drum cylinders |
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