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Car Forum / MINI / December 2003

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Starting Problems

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EricR - 29 Nov 2003 11:38 GMT
Guys,

I have a 1961 MK1 Mini with a floor mounted starter switch. Went out this
morning and flicked the key, and there was diddle squat. Normally you can
hear the electric pump doing it's thing and the ignition light comes on.
Pressed the starter and it spins fine, bur nothing happens.

So, tested circuitry, and nothing getting to fuel pump, went back, nothing
at fuse. Now, looking at the diagram there is a feed from battery to the
starter switch, which is then split to go direct to starter motor, and also
what I'll call into the ignition circuit.

2 Questions,
1) Am I on the right line here in my tracings?
2) Does this like a starter relay problem?
3) Where the hell does that wire go, it disappears up the back of the
bulkhead, but I can't trace it from the top/inside....anyone able to assist
here?

Eric
Steve - 29 Nov 2003 12:45 GMT
> Guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Eric

Hi Eric

There isn't a starter relay in your car. The floor switch does that job. The
small wire off the switch should be brown and goes to the 'A' terminal of
the regulator box. This terminal also provides the main feed to the fuse
box. So the suggestion is there is a fault with this wire. Has it melted on
the exhaust maybe? Or has the brown wire at the fuse box broken?

HTH

Signature

Rgds
Steve
steve@dsnclassics.co.uk
www.dsnclassics.co.uk

MrCheerful - 29 Nov 2003 14:51 GMT
> Guys,
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Eric

1.  You are on the right lines.  The smaller lead from the starter switch on
the floor goes off to the ign and other circuits, start checking for power
from here on.

2.  There is no starter relay, the button on the floor is a heavy duty
switch.

3.  You must just find the first point that is live then find where it is
stops being live !  Likely points are : at the connection under the starter
switch, at any joins, the ignition switch and especially its connections.

MrCheerful
DaveK - 29 Nov 2003 14:55 GMT
> Guys,
>
> I have a 1961 MK1 Mini with a floor mounted starter switch.

Gawd, you're testing my memory now.
The starter switch is purely mechanical, ie: pushing the button down pushes
a fat piece of brass across the terminals of the positive lead.
Could possibly be the negative lead because for several years in the 1960's
no-one could make up their minds about polarity and they kept swapping the
earth around.
Pushing the button down and getting the starter to spin proves only that the
battery has a charge and the starter works. It doesn't indicate that the
coil is receiving any current.
At the limits of my memory now- the main fuse is under the bonnet hidden
behind the soundproof material by  the wiper motor. It's a line fuse in a
bullet type holder. When that fails you lose warning lights and power to the
petrol pump and ignition.
If that fuse is ok, suspect the ignition switch. To get you going, those
engines are the easiest in the world to hot wire- just run a lead from a
permanent live source to the low tension connection + on the coil.
DaveK.
Fitzy - 01 Dec 2003 12:53 GMT
I would check there is enough power in the battery,
there might be enough power there to spin the starter but not enough to
throw the starter gear on to the flywheel,
also check to see if the inertia mechanism is not sticking, as was the case
with this type of starter,
Fitzy

> > Guys,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> permanent live source to the low tension connection + on the coil.
> DaveK.
Dave Plowman - 01 Dec 2003 13:17 GMT
> The starter switch is purely mechanical, ie: pushing the button down
> pushes a fat piece of brass across the terminals of the positive lead.
> Could possibly be the negative lead because for several years in the
> 1960's no-one could make up their minds about polarity and they kept
> swapping the earth around.

All push button starter Minis were positive earth - unless it's been
changed afterwards.

And makers didn't really swop back and forth, although positive earth was
a post war thing for those who used it. All went back to negative earth
when solid state electronics became the norm - mainly alternators. But
positive earth alternators were also available just to confuse things.

Signature

*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*

   Dave Plowman     dave.sound@argonet.co.uk     London SW 12
    RIP Acorn  

Dave Plowman - 01 Dec 2003 13:26 GMT
> I have a 1961 MK1 Mini with a floor mounted starter switch. Went out
> this morning and flicked the key, and there was diddle squat. Normally
> you can hear the electric pump doing it's thing and the ignition light
> comes on. Pressed the starter and it spins fine, bur nothing happens.

> So, tested circuitry, and nothing getting to fuel pump, went back,
> nothing at fuse. Now, looking at the diagram there is a feed from
> battery to the starter switch, which is then split to go direct to
> starter motor, and also what I'll call into the ignition circuit.

> 2 Questions, 1) Am I on the right line here in my tracings? 2) Does this
> like a starter relay problem? 3) Where the hell does that wire go, it
> disappears up the back of the bulkhead, but I can't trace it from the
> top/inside....anyone able to assist here?

IIRC, there is a fuse box with only two fuses, but these aren't used for
the ignition, etc. However, one *is* fed off the ignition switch as it
protects ignition controlled acessories (indicators, brake lights, heater
etc). The other is permanently live as it protects those accessories which
work with the ignition off, like horn, etc.

If there's no volts at the input to the 'ignition' fuse on this box with
the ignition on, my first guess would be a faulty ignition switch.

Again, IIRC, there's only a wire from the pickup point on the starter
switch to the ignition switch, so I'd also check that there are volts
arriving at the ignition switch at all times. If there's not, a dirty or
broken connection where the wire picks up from the starter switch would be
next.

Signature

*(over a sketch of the titanic) "The boat sank - get over it

   Dave Plowman     dave.sound@argonet.co.uk     London SW 12
    RIP Acorn  

Fitzy - 01 Dec 2003 16:57 GMT
> > I have a 1961 MK1 Mini with a floor mounted starter switch. Went out
> > this morning and flicked the key, and there was diddle squat. Normally
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> broken connection where the wire picks up from the starter switch would be
> next.

Hello Dave,
How are you these days,
Fitzy
K - 01 Dec 2003 22:45 GMT
> > > I have a 1961 MK1 Mini with a floor mounted starter switch. Went out
> > > this morning and flicked the key, and there was diddle squat. Normally
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Hi,
Just remembered. There are 2 fuses in the fuse box. Remove one of the fuses
and replaceit in between the two fuse positions. This should make the
ignition circuits live. Try again to start the engine, if it does not start,
then the problem would be in the ingition switch or it's wiring.

Keith
PS, this was a trick we used in the motor trade to fire up the old Morris
Minor if the keys were not available.
Fitzy - 02 Dec 2003 00:30 GMT
> > > > I have a 1961 MK1 Mini with a floor mounted starter switch. Went out
> > > > this morning and flicked the key, and there was diddle squat. Normally
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> PS, this was a trick we used in the motor trade to fire up the old Morris
> Minor if the keys were not available.

Totally agree,
a coin works just as well,
Fitzy
Dave Plowman - 02 Dec 2003 01:00 GMT
> Just remembered. There are 2 fuses in the fuse box. Remove one of the
> fuses and replaceit in between the two fuse positions. This should make
> the ignition circuits live. Try again to start the engine, if it does
> not start, then the problem would be in the ingition switch or it's
> wiring.

There should be two spare fuses in the holder - just use one of them.

> Keith
> PS, this was a trick we used in the motor trade to fire up the old Morris
> Minor if the keys were not available.

Just about any car of the period with Lucas electrics.

Signature

*When I'm not in my right mind, my left mind gets pretty crowded *

   Dave Plowman     dave.sound@argonet.co.uk     London SW 12
    RIP Acorn  

 
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