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Car Forum / Mitsubishi Cars / October 2005Car won't start...just died after low fuel light came on...
Hey anyone/everyone... I am having some troubles with my car (93 Talon 2.0l, manual)Here goes...it all started about 2 months ago when I was driving home from work, I was on the highway and my low fuel light came on...I drove about 5 minutes, got off at my exit and came to a set of lights...once I stopped, it ran a little rough and then just stalled...never started again. I filled the tank, still nothing...I got it home and we bought the book for the car, tested a few things and ended up changing the fuel pump, filter and strainer, still nothing. Then we tested more thing, found that the ignition control module was not giving the correct readings, replaced it...tried to start it, nothing...she attempts to turn over...but will not start. It seems like sometimes it's close but not that close...Help me please...I am running out of patience and the next thing I might buy is matches and gas...lol. I am in Ottawa if any of you are nearby and would love to help a fellow in desparate need. Thanks, Chris When the idiot light for fuel comes on, you normally have about 3 U.S. gallons of fuel left in the tank. I would think that the gas light going on and the Talon dying are coincidental. When the ignition is on can you hear the fuel pump? Do you have spark? By "ignition control module" Do you mean the ECU (computer) or are you talking about the ignitor that's by the coils mounted on the intake manifold? > Hey anyone/everyone... > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks, > Chris Cam angle sensor....pull the code and you will know. There is a limp home mode when the cam sensor craps out (and engine running). It simply guesses at TDC based on the last signal it has (One-one thousand, two-one thousand, etc.) and runs pretty shitty. If the engine is off, the car waits a couple of cranks to get the signal. If it never gets the signal, it has no idea where TDC is and will not fire the plugs. If you don't want to pull the code, pull a plug wire and hold it close to a ground. My bet is a spark wont fly.  Signature------------------------ The national government will maintain and defend the foundations on which the power of our nation rests. It will offer strong protection to Christianity as the very basis of our collective morality. Today Christians stand at the head of our country. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit. We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theatre, and in the press -- in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of LIBERAL excess during the past years. -- Adolf Hitler from The Speeches of Adolph Hitler > Hey anyone/everyone... > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks, > Chris Hi Nobody, I am having a similar problem with my daughters 93 galant, heres the deal... had problems starting cold initially, would need to leave key in on position for 1-5 minutes and then it would start right up. In other words when cold the car would crank but not turn over right away... Thought it might be fuel pump and since pretty much all the fuel pump replacement sites say to try the regulator first thats what I tried.. unfortunately the Advance Auto computer is screwed and keeps listing the wrong part... anyway put the original one back on thinking she could drive it until i find the right part...wrong now it will crank but won't turn over. I checked for fuel and I do have a steady stream going in while the car is being cranked, not shooting accross the room like some other sites report but I am assume more than enough to start that car... anyway moved on to checking spark, no spark to any of the plugs.... How can I test my cam sensor? Can I fool it into thinking that it has a signal so i can at least see if this blasted thing will ever turn over again? I have a haynes manual but it about as bad as the so called techs at my local advance store. Also thought it might be my ignition coil but since thats a part of the distributor too on this car I guess it could be either??? I am assuming the left side electrical connection on the dist plugs into the cam position sensor, like I said my haynes book isn't very good... Thanks in advance shaun >Cam angle sensor....pull the code and you will know. There is a limp home >mode when the cam sensor craps out (and engine running). It simply guesses [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> Thanks, >> Chris No spark could be from the coil or it could be from the ECU. If the ECU doesn't have the signals it needs to start the car, it wont. Now that I have some more info, I can guess better. The regulator keeps pressure in the rail. Since the car had hard starting, the assumption (1st guess) is that pressure is bleeding off the rail causing the hard start. All you did was take it off and put it back on, so I'm still betting the ECU is cutting the spark for a sensor. Check all the connectors around the area of the regulator and make sure you have them all hooked up. If that's OK, I think you can test it on the car. I'm not sure if the procedure is correct, but you should be able to tap a multimeter into one of the four wires coming out of the sensor (trail and error) and look for a signal when the switch is on and maybe while cranking. One of those wires will have a 5 volt, pulsed signal (sync'd to RPM) that goes to the ECU. One will probably have a 5volt constant signal from the ECU and the other two will be 12V power and ground. Someone here may have a better way to test the sensor. I'm just guessing the above will work (someone with a manual please confirm). Signature------------------------ > Hi Nobody, > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >> Thanks, > >> Chris I have the "Chilton's" manual for 93 Eclipse/Talon, 2.0L, turbo, MT Shows the Crankshaft sensor and the Camshaft sensor. I don't see a third (TDC)sensor. Pin 1, white wire, is the output of the camshaft sensor, 5 volts or ground (pulse), as the engine cranks over. Pin 2,black wire, is the output of the crankshaft sensor, 5 volts or ground (pulse), as the engine cranks over. Pin 3, red wire, is a 12 volt feed from the MFI control relay (should be battery voltage when ignition switch is in "run" postion). Pin 4, black wire, is ground There should be no constant 5 volts when the engine is cranking. 5 volts may be detected on pins 1 and 2, because the ECU provides a pull up voltage to the sensor, The sensor provides a ground at the correct signal point from the cam or crank, pulling the 5 volts down to zero, thus giving the ECU a pulse train. Without pulses on these two sensors, the ECU will not fire the SP, as it has not idea were TDC is. "Nobody" is correct, you should be able to measure these signals with a voltmeter, I prefer an analogue type, as it has better averaging qualities when measuring pulse trains. The voltage measured will be less than 5 volts as the meter will average the voltages. If you monitor these voltages as the engine cranks very slowly then the voltage will fluctuate closer to 5 volts. I'm talking about pins 1 and 2 here. Check the 12 volt and ground pins first, if you don't have 12 volts, then check your fuses. Good luck > No spark could be from the coil or it could be from the ECU. If the ECU > doesn't have the signals it needs to start the car, it wont. [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > >> Thanks, > > >> Chris That's the one. The early DSMs and 3Ks had one sensor for cam and crank. The 2G DSM and 93+ 3k had a cam and crank sensor. The 1G Galant was a 4g63, but they had a turbo, non-turbo, and SOHC one. I think the later Galant and 3G Eclipse had a 6g72 DOHC (non-turbo), essentially the same engine as a Diamante and NT 3K. They were all slightly different, but the technology was very similar. The 6G72T and 4G63T were the stronger of the series having oil squirters on the bottom end and beefer cranks/cams/internals. Signature------------------------ > I have the "Chilton's" manual for 93 Eclipse/Talon, 2.0L, turbo, MT > Shows the Crankshaft sensor and the Camshaft sensor. I don't see a third > (TDC)sensor. > I am in Ottawa if any of you are nearby Is that Ottawa, Canada, or Ottawa, California? If the former, I'm just across the river in deepest darkest West Quebec ... Stewart DIBBS www.pixcl.com/lancerproject.htm He's in Canada, Stewart. ================================================= === VisualRoute report on 1/10/2005 11:14:34 === ================================================= Report for 192.150.5.150 Analysis: Node '192.150.5.150' was found in 14 hops (TTL=241). Connections to HTTP port 80 are working. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Hop | % Loss | IP Address | Node Name | Location | Timezone | ms | Graph | Network | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | 0 | | 192.168.1.100 | hal-9000.hsd1.mi.comcast.net. | ... | | | | (private use) | | 1 | 100 | | | | | | | | | 2 | | 68.87.184.97 | ge-2-1-ur03.waterford.mi.michigan.comcast.net | | | 19 | -x--- | 68.87.184.0 | | 3 | 20 | 68.87.190.78 | te-8-1-ur02.flint.mi.michigan.comcast.net | Flint, MI, USA | | 9 | x-- | 68.87.190.0 | | 4 | 10 | 68.87.190.82 | te-9-2-ur03.flint.mi.michigan.comcast.net | Flint, MI, USA | | 10 | x | 68.87.190.0 | | 5 | 10 | 68.87.190.86 | te-7-3-ar02.pontiac.mi.michigan.comcast.net | Pontiac, MI, USA | | 10 | x | 68.87.190.0 | | 6 | | 68.87.191.169 | pos-6-2-ar01.pontiac.mi.michigan.comcast.net | Pontiac, MI, USA | | 10 | x | 68.87.191.0 | | 7 | 20 | 12.118.104.49 | - | | | 16 | x- | 12.118.104.0 | [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | | | 27 | x- | 12.125.142.0 | | 11 | 10 | 199.212.172.2 | pos5-0-0.hcap1-ott.bb.allstream.net.172.212.199.in-addr.arpa | | | 46 | x | 199.212.172.0 | | 12 | | 216.191.225.122 | - [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | 14 | | 192.150.5.150 | - | | | 48 | x | 192.150.5.0 | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- VisualRoute Report for 192.150.5.150 produced at 11:14 on 1 October 2005. Roundtrip time to 192.150.5.150 (192.150.5.150) average = 48ms min = 48ms max = 51ms >> I am in Ottawa if any of you are nearby > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Stewart DIBBS > www.pixcl.com/lancerproject.htm |
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