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Car Forum / Mitsubishi Cars / August 2008

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1993 Eclipse - R12 or R134a?

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Walter Cohen - 04 Aug 2008 13:37 GMT
Anyone know if a 1993 Eclipse makes use of R12 refrigerant (most likely) or
R134a?
If R12 I need to retrofit before recharging with R134a.  Is this something I
can do myself?

Thanks.
Walt
Stewart DIBBS - 04 Aug 2008 17:18 GMT
> Anyone know if a 1993 Eclipse makes use of R12 refrigerant (most likely)
> or R134a?
> If R12 I need to retrofit before recharging with R134a.  Is this something
> I can do myself?

A '93 is an R12 system. A retro-fit kit to use R134a (or equivalent)
requires:

a) Remove the compressor, drain the old oil and replace with r143a
compatible, swap the H and L pressure valve fittings.
b) replace the drier cannister.
c) replace ALL the O rings wth with r143a compatible rings.
d) Evacuate the system and see if it holds a vacuum. If it does, recharge
with R134a (or equivalent). Note that you cannot just charge up a system
without evacuating it first: it won't properly or for long.

Without the right equipment (air driven vacuum pump and gauge set) you can't
do d) yourself.

You could do a,b,c and then take it to an AC shop and have the vacuum test
done. They will likely want to charge you $200 or so to tell you that there
is a leak somewhere.

Note AC shops have to abide by a whole lot of government regulations, which
is why they are often outrageously expensive.

For a 93, the most common leak source is the condensor  in front of the
radiator. This has taken 15 years of road dirt impacts and winter salt.  The
next likely source of leaks is the hoses themselves. With age and the change
of refrigerant, the smaller r134a molecules leak out through the walls of
the hoses themselves. The only solution is to have the hoses rebuilt (don't
think about buying new ones, $$$$$).  I had some done for my 93 last year.
Ask around your local A/C shops: many won't do it, but there's usually
someone who will. The process requires that new barbed hose fittings be
welded onto the existing pipes as the mitsu fittings are odd. The hoses are
then crimped onto the pipes.

You might consider the following:

1. Get a new condensor: you probably need one anyway, also the drier
cannister. Look on, say, RockAuto.com. Before you order one, pull out the
compressor and check it out. You should be able to turn the shaft and feel
the pressure on the in/out ports. There should be no (black) oil leaking out
the shaft. If the compressor seems faulty, consider buying a new one. I have
a decent 93 compressor here in Ottawa, Canada: its yours for the shipping if
you want it.
2. Get the hoses rebuilt. Can't hurt and is cheaper than new.
3. Buy an air driven vacuum pump and gauge set. It's about $200 or so. You
hook the pump to a compressed air source and away it goes.  This is a good
option as its about the cost of having the system leak tested once.
Rebuilding an old system often takes several goes at finding the leak. The
simplest test is vac out the system. The vacuum should hold with no change
for at least a couple of days. If there is a leak, its usually pretty clear
immediately as the vacuum leaks away in seconds to hours. Hence my
suggestion of replacing the condensor.

You can also vac out the system yourself and put in an R134a equivalent.

regards
Stewart DIBBS
www.lancerproject.ca
IB - 04 Aug 2008 20:06 GMT
In the uk, I just use drop in replacement rs24

www.poolecool.co.uk
Gyzmologist - 25 Aug 2008 22:55 GMT
>> Anyone know if a 1993 Eclipse makes use of R12 refrigerant (most likely)
>> or R134a?
[quoted text clipped - 57 lines]
> Stewart DIBBS
> www.lancerproject.ca

I put HC12 in my '94 Eclipse about a year ago and it has been working
great. I replaced the compressor and dryer, added the required oil to
the system, evacuated it and checked for leaks, then charged it with
HC12. I prefer to use electric vacuum pumps myself when evacuating an AC
system, but air is fine if you don't mind the noise and have sufficient
volume of compressed air.

HC12 is compatible with R12 and R134a systems, so no changing of oil or
O-rings is required (or so the manufacturers say). Just evacuate and
recharge.

We are not supposed to use HC12 in our cars in the US, however, in the
rest of the world it is OK. The reasoning being the US chemical
companies make a lot of money on patented refrigerants, and since they
make large political contributions, our politicians want to ensure they
can continue to do so. HC12 is also flammable, but so is gasoline and
propane which are found in far greater quantities on motor vehicles.

Signature

Gyz

If a man is speaking in the middle of the forest and there is no woman
around to hear him, is he still wrong?

Bhagat Gurtu - 26 Aug 2008 03:31 GMT
> We are not supposed to use HC12 in our cars in the US, however, in the
> rest of the world it is OK. The reasoning being the US chemical
> companies make a lot of money on patented refrigerants, and since they
> make large political contributions, our politicians want to ensure they
> can continue to do so. HC12 is also flammable, but so is gasoline and
> propane which are found in far greater quantities on motor vehicles.

HC12 is a truly excellent refrigerant, you can't get better and there is
no need to 'retrofit' your seals and hoses and compressor.  

It is not true that it is legal everywhere else in the world however. If
it is so dangerous why is HC12 used in modern domestic regrigerators and
A/C units.

Did you know that R12 is also flammable and when it burns it produces
phosgene gas (a chemical weapon). Not nice.
 
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