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Car Forum / Mitsubishi Cars / August 2006

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1992 Galant ECU Problem or not?

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Norman Weiss - 24 Jan 2004 12:07 GMT
Hi,

I drive a 1992 Mitsubishi Galant (2.0l GLSi DOHC) - at least I used to
until it suddenly stopped on me (of course, in a narrow one-way street
with lots of people behind me and only a handcapped parking space
nearby. *sigh*). The engine just went out and I was unsuccessful
restarting it. The AA guy that I called said that the sparks were
infrequent and too weak.
I checked that at home and the sparks are somewhat infrequent. I not
sure if they are too weak, too. (Spark plugs are fine.)
After reading about the ECU caps problem on the Internet, I checked the
ECU. (I could sometimes hear the "clicking of death" from under the
dashboard - a sign that the ECU is constantly resetting itself.)
One capacitor had leaked some electrolyte. I orded the caps and replaced
all of them. Out of curiosity I checked the capacitors that I removed
and they were all performing within specification - even the one that
had spilled some electrolyte.
*sighagain*
Needless to say, the car didn't start even after replacing the caps, so
I investigated the ECU error codes.
When the car is off and I turn the key to "ignition" (2nd position of
the key, i.e. I don't start the engine) I can hear sounds coming from
the engine compartment - sounds like a valve frequently opening and
closing to me. After about 30 seconds that sound stops, after another 30
seconds the "Check Engine" light comes on. ECU error code reads "25" -
Barometric pressure sensor faulty.
If I start the car shortly (i.e. crank just for half a second or so) the
error code remains 25.
If I crank for a little longer (a second or more) the error code reports
a faulty ECU (constant signal) - that doesn't go away unless I switch
off the car.
The above behavior is reproducible even after a disconnect of the
battery.
I suspect the ECU processor to stall if I crank for more than a second
or so. (At one time, the fuel pump stayed on after the ECU "failed" and
didn't turn off at all.)

So, here are my questions:

- Any ideas, anyone? ;-)
- What about the code "25" - does that always happen if you leave the
car on "Ignition" for too long without starting it? That error can't be
produced by a faulty ECU. So either the sensor is faulty or it's a
connection problem. Or a power supply problem.
- The ECU runs fine at first. Why does the ECU stall after cranking for
a second or so? Faulty power supply? (I don't suspect a loose
connection). That'd lead to back the ECU and a faulty component.
- I've heard that besides the capacitor problems other components in the
ECU tend to fail, too (a diode was mentioned quite frequently...) Any
hint on what components to check? Checking the components is no problem
for me - it's just either complicated (ECU in the car under operation)
or complicated (ECU not in the car - desoldering components
neccessary...).
- Does anybody know a way to buy a rebuilt ECU within Europe? Any
rebuilders?

Thanks a lot for any advice (and sorry for the long post... ;-)
Norman
Nirodac - 24 Jan 2004 17:50 GMT
Assuming you've reset the error code in the ECU, what code is output after
the reset, when you first turn the ignition key to the "run" position.
That's the position just before the engine would crank over.
Before installing the new capacitors, did you check the circuit board for
damage, such as a corroded or broken trace.  I've found broken traces on the
circuit board before.  It might be that under a certain load the break opens
up.  Try looking around the center of the ECU board, near the large
electrolytic.

Yar

> Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
> Thanks a lot for any advice (and sorry for the long post... ;-)
> Norman
Norman Weiss - 25 Jan 2004 14:17 GMT
> Assuming you've reset the error code in the ECU, what code is output after
> the reset, when you first turn the ignition key to the "run" position.
> That's the position just before the engine would crank over.

Well, I assume the ECU is stateless, so disconnecting the battery clears
everything?
I did that, the bevavior stays the same: code 25 in "Run" position,
constant signal after cranking for a second or so.

> Before installing the new capacitors, did you check the circuit board for
> damage, such as a corroded or broken trace.  I've found broken traces on the
> circuit board before.  It might be that under a certain load the break opens
> up.  Try looking around the center of the ECU board, near the large
> electrolytic.

Well, one of the capacitors spilled some electrolyte and hit a SMD
capacitor and a diode post with it. It dissolved the PCB finish, but as
far as I can tell didn't damage any traces. The diode is fine I think (I
resoldered it), but I'm still worrying a little about the SMD capacitor.
On the other hand, I doubt that it could produce these symptoms.

Norman
Bornish - 25 Jan 2004 09:27 GMT
Hi Norman!
You may wanna read my topic: "90 Eclipse GSR4 repaired ECU diagnosis".
Still didn't fixed my ECU, but I've read a lot about rebuilding one.
I might be able to help.
You've said your "ECU runs fine at first"!
I don't believe that. Either functions, either not.
You can see that when mine blow-up, nothing was working anymore: no spark, no fuel, no pulse to injectors.
After replacing all the caps (not only the damaged one) and cleaning the entire board (which is very important),
you definitely should look for circuit breaks (use a magnifier and bright light) as Nirodac mentioned.
When finished that, you can test again the board.
If you ask me, ppl should do this every 3-5 years, or at least when car is behaving strange.
If the test fails in any way, means there are other components damaged by using the board when eated up by the electrolyte leaking from the caps.
In my case must be at least one transistor.
To test transistors you have to desolder them, check their resistance when not power-supplied and their continuity when power-supplied.
I suggest using a multi-tester where you have a special place to stick transistors, both PNP and NPN.
Transistors can be easily damaged by a short when high-intensity current goes to their base.
If you can mail me some pics at boa-at-mapsuae-dot-com, I will do my best to help you.
If your board is in fact not faulty (from this distance I believe it is), you may wanna check your sensors, starting with the Crank Angle Sensor.
If you choose to buy a rebuilt unit, let me know to give you some links of companies doing that, but it's a bit risky to not check all the harness wiring and relays before spending money on a new unit.
You might damage the new unit too if a short in the wiring is present, or you might find that your old unit is working too after replacing a damaged relay.
Good luck and will talk more some other time.
Hope this helps.
Norman Weiss - 25 Jan 2004 14:44 GMT
> Hi Norman!
> You may wanna read my topic: "90 Eclipse GSR4 repaired ECU diagnosis".

I did and I've posted some comments.

> You've said your "ECU runs fine at first"!
> I don't believe that. Either functions, either not.

Well, you can trust me on this one. The ECU processor runs if I put the
ignition switch on "run" (not on "ignition"), because it outputs an
error code after a minute or so. I only fails after I crank for longer
than a second or so.

> You can see that when mine blow-up, nothing was working anymore: no spark, no fuel, no pulse to injectors.

Right. Mainly because one of you capacitors exploded. Since the three or
four caps on the ECU PCB are for the power supply, that means that your
ECU suppy voltage was too low to properly run the processor. Now that
you've fixed the caps I runs again, but now you see the symptoms of
faulty components - like I do.

> After replacing all the caps (not only the damaged one) and cleaning the entire board (which is very important),
> you definitely should look for circuit breaks (use a magnifier and bright light) as Nirodac mentioned.

None found.

> If the test fails in any way, means there are other components damaged by using the board when eated up by the electrolyte leaking from the caps.

I doubt that any component was damaged by the electrolyte. I think a
component blew because of the improper operation of the ECU. Maybe the
electrolyte leak and the fault are not related at all!

> To test transistors you have to desolder them, check their resistance when not power-supplied and their continuity when power-supplied.

Right. But that's a PITA, so I wondered if there are any bets out on
what ECU component is likely to fail besides the caps.

> If you can mail me some pics at boa-at-mapsuae-dot-com, I will do my best to help you.

See you PM, please.

> If your board is in fact not faulty (from this distance I believe it is), you may wanna check your sensors, starting with the Crank Angle Sensor.

I suppose that's fine, since the ECU doesn't tell me it's broke... ;-)

Thanks,
Norman
Nirodac - 25 Jan 2004 18:37 GMT
I would definitely start checking the sensors as mentioned earlier,
including the TDC and crank sensors in the dist.  I believe Mitsu is using
optical sensors to detect rotation.  Also you may want to check all the
power feeds to the ECU as well as the grounds.  If you leave the ignition
switch in the run position for a few minutes, without cranking the engine,
does the ECU output an "failed ECU" code?  If it doesn't, try heating the
ECU with a hair dryer, and see if that causes it to fail.
You may have a thermal intermittent, when a component heats up, it may
fail.

> Hi Norman!
> You may wanna read my topic: "90 Eclipse GSR4 repaired ECU diagnosis".
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> If your board is in fact not faulty (from this distance I believe it is), you may wanna check your sensors, starting with the Crank Angle Sensor.
> If you choose to buy a rebuilt unit, let me know to give you some links of companies doing that, but it's a bit risky to not check all the harness
wiring and relays before spending money on a new unit.
> You might damage the new unit too if a short in the wiring is present, or you might find that your old unit is working too after replacing a damaged
relay.
> Good luck and will talk more some other time.
> Hope this helps.
Norman Weiss - 27 Jan 2004 17:56 GMT
> I would definitely start checking the sensors as mentioned earlier,
> including the TDC and crank sensors in the dist.  I believe Mitsu is using
> optical sensors to detect rotation.

I still don't see how checking the sensors will help me. A defective
crank sensor is signalled by the ECU, if I'm not mistaken. And it
wouldn't cause the ECU to fail, or? (Starting the car will cause the ECU
to signal "Defective ECU")

> Also you may want to check all the
> power feeds to the ECU as well as the grounds.

That's going to be my next step - but the ECU is well grounded (bolted
to the car body), leaves the 12V input.
Does anybody know a little about the ECU power supply, i.e. the 5V
voltage regulation circuit? I'd like to know where to test the 5V for
stability.

> If you leave the ignition
> switch in the run position for a few minutes, without cranking the engine,
> does the ECU output an "failed ECU" code?  If it doesn't, try heating the
> ECU with a hair dryer, and see if that causes it to fail.
>  You may have a thermal intermittent, when a component heats up, it may
> fail.

That sounds like a good idea. I'll do that, too.

There's one thing left where I could use some help from a Mitsubishi
owner, preferably a 89-94 model, even more perferably a Galant: If you
leave the car in the "Run" position (without starting), does the "Check
engine" light come on after a minute or so?

Thanks,
Norman
Nirodac - 28 Jan 2004 07:13 GMT
Sorry, may have misread your other posts
I believe you had said something about the injectors not getting pulsed, but
you had  an output from the ecu.

> > I would definitely start checking the sensors as mentioned earlier,
> > including the TDC and crank sensors in the dist.  I believe Mitsu is using
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks,
> Norman
kidrock2479 - 10 Aug 2006 18:39 GMT
i had the same problem with same car 1992 mitusubishi galant  automatic .well
brother i did a complete check at automax . it cost me an arm and a leg about
1000$ t ocheck everything from faulty wiring to spark plugs to clogged pump
nothing was wrong guess what . all u have to do is change your car ecu u can
get it at autozone or buy a used one from junk yard which i wouldnt recommend
. after i got the ecu cahnged it works perfect .so just go ahead get the ecu
replaced. it might be sending bad codes. mine did .

>Hi,
>
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>Thanks a lot for any advice (and sorry for the long post... ;-)
>Norman
 
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