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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Altima / August 2003ATTN: warning about Stillen / Steve Millen Sportparts
Originally from http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 Why exactly I will never buy another STILLEN product Two months ago I bought a Stillen exhaust. When I recieved it and installed it on my car I noticed a rattle coming from the exhaust. Not trusting my amauter asessment I took it to several muffler shops and had them asess the problem. Every last shop said that there was a weld broken inside the muffler and that when the exhaust pushed through the muffler, that it produced a high frequency metal on metal buzz. I contacted the place that I originally bought it from and they said unfortunatly I have to deal with the manufacturer as it falls under their warrenty. So I call stillen and speak to ANDREW at ext 174. I explained my situation to him and he told me that I have to send him my exhuast so he can evaluate it and either repair it or send me a new one in the case that it is unrepairable. I asked what I was supposed to do inthe mean time he told me that this was company policy. I said okay I understand, I don't agree but I understand. So I tell him I'm going to get a temperary replacement and then I will call him back to begin the return process. I bought a cheap muffler to replace it and I called ANDREW again. He was not there so I left him a voicemail. I had to leave town for two weeks so I left instructions with my wife as to what to do when he calls back. Upon my return I expected to see my new muffler I asked where it was and my wife says he never called back. So I call STILLEN again and talk to ANDREW and he says "oh sorry about that I forgot bro." (word for word quote) He then proceeds to tell me that I have to pay to ship the muffler back to him to get it covered by "warrenty". I asked why and he said he really didn't know. I asked if he could transfer me to somebody that could answer my question and he said sure and transferred my to JOSH GREENFIELD a customer service supervisor. After explaining my story to JOSH he said "thats just the way things are and you have to deal with it." I asked him "don't you find it a little odd that I have to pay over $100 in shipping to return and recieve back a defective "warrentied" part that only cost $300?" he said "yeah but I don't know why, its not my call." I asked to speak to his boss. he said "sure hang on I'll get my boss BILL CLATER he is the customer service manager of STILLEN the entire corparation. BILL CLATER picks up the phone and immediately begins the conversation in a hostile tone. I began to explain my situation to him and he cut me off in mid-sentance with this "look michael our policy is not to pay for shipping and thats the way it is." I asked him if that made sense on a consumer to buisness level? He said "look michael I'm not gonna debate with you about an exhuast I'm too busy. you can send it back or you can keep it the choice is yours." I asked him if I could ship the part to him and when in fact it was found defective if they could reimburse me he said "No we don't do that." I asked why. he said "look either ship it or keep it the choice is yours I don't care what you do. Our products will sell regardless. heres are address the choice is yours!" and then he hung up on me." I never once raised my voice. I was talked to like I was 12. And on top of it all he hung up on me. This is the customer service manager we are talking about. Everything in quotations on this post is verbatem what they said. You know hes right the choice is mine I will never buy another stillen product. I will make it my mission in life to tell everyone I know. Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. If you paid for it with a credit card I would call the credit card company and explain that the product was defective and let the credit card company sort it out with Stillen. You may end up having to pay for it but I would give it a go if it were me. Puffer > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. > If you paid for it with a credit card I would call the credit card company > and explain that the product was defective and let the credit card company > sort it out with Stillen. You may end up having to pay for it but I would > give it a go if it were me. Two other things to think of: Assuming everything you've said is spot-on accurate, you should 1) contact the Better Business Bureau in your community, and 2) if one of your local TV stations has a consumer affairs reporter, phone them up and tell them your story. This is the sort of thing some reporters live for--chasing the owner of the place with a camera and microphone saying "Why won't you refund this gentleman's money?" John  SignatureIf you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters. --Harvey Mackay if you authorise it. its like cash. they wont stop the transaction. > If you paid for it with a credit card I would call the credit card company > and explain that the product was defective and let the credit card company [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. > if you authorise it. its like cash. they wont stop the transaction. > [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] >> > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every >> > other nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. Not true. He didn't authorize the purchase of a defective muffler. > If you paid for it with a credit card I would call the credit card company > and explain that the product was defective and let the credit card company [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >>Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other >>nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. I was planning on buying some stillen parts but not any more! Sorry about your luck dude This just goes to show, If it ain't broke,Don't fix it > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. >You know hes right the choice is mine I will never buy another stillen >product. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other >nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. Unfortunately this is all too typical these days. Companies don't care about their customer, you're just one among thousands. He should have compromised. You pay to ship the part back, if it's defective then he picks up shipping in both directions. Why don't you hunt down the address of the CEO or maybe mangle an email address for him. Perhaps a few hundred emails from people out here will help. You may also want to post this to www.maxima.org once you have someplace for people to email. We can all attach your letter and make our opinions known. Bob "mad as hell and not gonna take it anymore" You might want to repost this in the vendor review section at www.altimas.net and http://www.nissanforums.com >Originally from >http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 > >Why exactly I will never buy another STILLEN product BACartman@thecox.net -------------------- I'm NOT Fat! I'm BIG Boned! -------------------- remove the to reply In case you've never heard, there is a reason they call Stillen = $tealin. CW Well, if your experience with Stillen is true, I know *I* won't be buying anything from them...with that indifferent attitude, they don't need MY business, either. Or my friends' business. I don't know why so many business are so damn stupid and short-sighted...your posts in Usenet will cost them MANY TIMES MORE than they would have spent helping you out, especially if they shipped you a defective part in the first place. Negative advertising is the LAST thing any smart business would want, but lots of them have to learn the hard way...if they ever do. John D. > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. > "don't you > find it a little odd that I have to pay over $100 in shipping to > return and recieve back a defective "warrentied" part that only cost > $300?" he said "yeah but I don't know why, UPS ground $24.84 seems to be what they charge for shipping to an address near me... To be honest I have not weighed in an exhaust. I looked up part number SKU# 508200. I assume they wanted you to pay for shipping both ways with their handling fees. That seems a touch bongus IMHO. I'm not clear on california law on the subject, but it seems most troubling that they wouldn't permit you to ship them your exhaust on your own expence. Why not share the sku number of what you are talking about, this way a person like my self can make an informed judgement about shopping with them. If they wanted to charge you $50.00 each way for example on something that they normally charge $100.00... I'd say they were being foofoo heads. For $50.00 I can easily ship a 75pound package to their california office via UPS, 50 pounds would be about 1/2 that. Off hand it sounds like to me that they are trying to cover their expences for defective goods by charging outlandish shipping and handing charges. To be honest, I don't know of any other company that does it that way. I just picked up a base model Nissan Sentra 1998 and appricate when people share their experences as I do plan to invest money in some little odds and ends. Likely not from this company. Surveys show that when you like something that influences the future behavior of two people, when you dislike something it goes up to eleven people. I will not buy from Stillen either, there are too many reputible options. BTW: Crutchfield pays both ways even if you just don't like it. Best, Phil Sharkey >>"don't you >>find it a little odd that I have to pay over $100 in shipping to [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Thanks for the tip!!!!! I, just last night, hit the tri-state lottery for $5000. I was about to drop every penny on the Stillen web site. My '02 max is just passing "out of warranty", so I yhought the timong couldn't be better to have an extra $5k to spend on it. If I hadn't read your post, Stillen would have been $5k further ahead in July revenues. But screw them, they'll not see a penny of my long awaited winnings. DaveN > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. congrats! > Thanks for the tip!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. Whoa. thanks for the heads up!!!! > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. In response to Mr. Lilly's allegation: I must admit I was quite surprised by his posting. This was not the conversation that I nor the two other employees in the office at the time remember having with Mr. Lilly. The contents of his posting do not seem to be based on fact. At no time was Mr. Lilly spoken to rudely nor did anyone hang up on him. He was clearly unhappy with our warranty policy. However, as a customer service gesture, I personally agreed to ship the exhaust back to the dealer from whom he had originally bought the system, at no charge if in fact the exhaust was found to be defective. Mr. Lilly spoke to 3 employees here at Stillen, at which time we did everything within our company guidelines to make a frustrating situation somewhat more livable. As with any large company, (within or outside of our industry), Stillen must establish and work within a set of pre-determined rules and guidelines. Let me assure you that Stillen stands behind its products and supports its distributors. We are still more than happy to try to work through and resolve this situation with Mr Lilly, even though he has taken this position. > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. > Let me assure you that Stillen stands behind its products > and supports its distributors. We are still more than happy to try to > work through and resolve this situation with Mr Lilly, even though he > has taken this position. You didn't address the core of his problem: He says that you insist he pay (according to him) $100 shipping to return it so you can unilaterally decide if it was defective. Assuming that you do decide that it was defective, you will not reimburse his shipping costs. So, assuming that the muffler was in fact defective, it will cost him an extra $100, not to mention his time and trouble installing and removing the defective muffler, and his expense and more time and trouble installing and removing a temporary replacement, and lastly his time and trouble installing the replacement muffler. Because you manufactured a defective product. Since you don't deny the accuracy of what he said, other than claiming you were polite on the telephone, we must all assume that what he says is correct reportage of your policy. If the product was not defective--perhaps was damaged in installation--it might be fair to expect him to bear the cost of returning it, but it would still be lousy customer relations. Where did you earn your credentials to be a customer relations manager? SignatureJohn Varela >Mr. Lilly spoke to 3 employees here at >Stillen, at which time we did everything within our company guidelines >to make a frustrating situation somewhat more livable. As with any >large company, (within or outside of our industry), Stillen must >establish and work within a set of pre-determined rules and >guidelines. I congratulate you on your willingness to jump in and participate in this issue directly in the forum. HOWEVER, hiding behind "corporate policy" as if it were handed down by God to Moses along with the Ten Commandments is ridiculous. Are you a manager or a computer ? Computer's make decisions according to a fixed set of rules; Managers make decisions based on the circumstances. It's time to be a manager. The firm that he purchased the exhaust firm directed him to deal directly with _you_ for warranty coverage. They have already ducked out of helping him. For some very short shipping money you could make him happy and retain some of your reputation. Or, you can stick to your guns and lose a thousand customers over $50. Your choice. Bob Offering to work some odd deal through that third party is a non-starter. You should pick up the cost of the return >>Mr. Lilly spoke to 3 employees here at >>Stillen, at which time we did everything within our company guidelines [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > You should pick up the cost of the return Case in point. A few weeks ago I purchased a 180 pound 6" jointer / planer from Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight is known for inexpensive "Made in China" tools. Some are, well, junk, others are of decent quality for the price. From what I've read, the jointer was in the latter category, and at less than half the price of even a "cheap" Delta or Rigid plus free shipping I figured "what the heck". It arrived via truck last Friday. All was well until I noticed a crack in the front table around a large adjusting bolt. It was obviously just a matter of time before it broke, rendering the jointer useless. Harbor Freight's policy is similar to Stillen's -- send the part back at your expense for inspection and they'll replace it if they believe it's defective. The last thing I wanted to do is ship back a 70 pound piece of cast iron, so I sent them an e-mail along with two pictures showing the crack. The next day I received an e-mail saying they were sending me a new front table, and no, I don't have to send back the defective one. That's customer service. Would I order from Harbor Freight again? Absolutely! Would I if they had stuck to the corporate party line and made me send back the defective part for inspection at my expense? Very doubtful. Oh, BTW, the jointer works beautifully. :-) Harbor Freight is a company who I do business with, though only localy. I'm fortunate enough to have one near me. My only complaint is the checkout staff is painfully slow, as a matter of policy simple things need a management password, as well as consumers who request goods from the back hold up a line till someone grabs it. But as far as returns go, never had a problem. I returned their tranny jack adapter because it didn't fit my jack, which wasn't a problem as they said it would fit my jack. The other is a simple soldering gun bought onsale which took moments to return. "It broke, bought it yesturday, just want it replaced please". But yea, alots of their goods are pretty cheep will break sooner or later but need to finish a project and will only use the thing once sorta deal. Though I was very impressed with their 1/2 inch sockets. I have not broke one yet. > Case in point. A few weeks ago I purchased a 180 pound 6" jointer / > planer from Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight is known for inexpensive [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > line and made me send back the defective part for inspection at my > expense? Very doubtful. Oh, BTW, the jointer works beautifully. :-) Reminds me of Wheels Direct here in Toronto. Good God... expect a year to get a pair of Rims. > Harbor Freight is a company who I do business with, though only localy. I'm > fortunate enough to have one near me. My only complaint is the checkout [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > line and made me send back the defective part for inspection at my > > expense? Very doubtful. Oh, BTW, the jointer works beautifully. :-) <snip> > > Case in point. A few weeks ago I purchased a 180 pound 6" jointer / > > planer from Harbor Freight. Harbor Freight is known for inexpensive [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > line and made me send back the defective part for inspection at my > > expense? Very doubtful. Oh, BTW, the jointer works beautifully. :-) Another example of Harbour Freight standing behind their products - bought a set of cheapie combination-wrenches - the 14mm broke while I was working on the car - I called them up - told them which one broke and in less than a week a new one showed up on my doorstep - no out of pocket cost to me. They just took my word that the wrench broke while using it.. didn't need any proof/pictures etc. Even though this is a smaller and cheaper item, it still shows how well a company is willing to stand behind their products and keep the customer happy. This is especially important in Harbour Freight's case - where the general opinion is that they sell cheap quality tools. Of course a big company like Stillen - they don't have as much motivation to be customer-friendly - since they dominate in the aftermarket Nissan/Infiniti space and have a line of customers waiting to pay for their add-on/replacement parts and accessories. >Harbor Freight's >policy is similar to Stillen's -- send the part back at your expense for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >me a new front table, and no, I don't have to send back the defective >one. That's customer service. Exactly! All Stillen has to do is to tell Mr. Lilly to ship the part back - if it is defective, Stillen will pick up the shipping cost for the return and for the new part. There's a big difference between a DOA component like this one and one that goes bad after four years. Bob > The next day I received an e-mail saying they were sending > me a new front table, and no, I don't have to send back the defective > one. That's customer service. I bought a Weber gas grill a couple of years ago and assembled it myself (as a mechanical engineer it's my professional duty to do things like that). The plastic shelf that mounts on one side of the grill was cracked. I wrote Weber a letter and in a few days a new shelf appeared at my doorstep, no questions asked. Since I already had the grill almost completely assembled when I unpacked the shelf and discovered it was broken, I couldn't very well return the grill to Home Depot. However, it *could* have been that I had broken the shelf while trying to assemble it. Weber didn't know which was the case, they just took my word that it was their fault and went ahead and sent me a new one. SignatureJohn Varela Let me ask you this. Let's say I bought a part from you, and it failed... I am expected to give you a blank check or a CC pending your testing of the failed part for as much as $100 to get a replacement? If this is accurate, then with all do respect, there is no chance in hell I would agree to those terms, nor would I do business with a company who as a matter of policy does this. Unless the item was 75pounds or more this is most unacceptable. Based on my experence with defective goods... every business I've delt with returns defective goods on their own dime. I assume it's because it's their fault a product failed. Some offer faster shipping options for a fee... but for the most part if it's bad I pay to send it, they pay to replace it. Other places choose to provide a UPS tag and the process is free. I've tried to verify your return policy as I was most curious about who to do business with, and I must say your staff wouldn't answer any questions about the subject and did indeed hangup on me. As a rule I take all internet warnings with a grain of salt. Based on a lack of clearness of your policy, I fear your company isn't compatable with my needs as a consumer. The rudeness of your staff in answering questions about policy is not compatable with my needs. It doesn't matter if Mr. Lilly's allegation is accurate, there is no excuse for staff yelling at basic questions of policy. > In response to Mr. Lilly's allegation: > I must admit I was quite surprised by his posting. This was not the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > work through and resolve this situation with Mr Lilly, even though he > has taken this position. Hummm sounds friendly enough. So are you going to fix it? > In response to Mr. Lilly's allegation: > I must admit I was quite surprised by his posting. This was not the [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. That last message is BS. I with a few others I know absolutely refuse to use Stillen EVER AGAIN. Your customer service KIDS are completely and totally without education when it comes to good business. You have left a bad taste in everyones' mouth that I know of. > In response to Mr. Lilly's allegation: > I must admit I was quite surprised by his posting. This was not the [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. I'm not sure if I would call the message BS my self. It is far too vague to be either fact or fiction. It's mostly marketing speak, which tends to use many words to say nothing at all. As far as the rudeness of the staff, while I've never bought anything from them I did call to ask about their return policies. I was hung up on. So i'm inclined to believe the poster's claim of being treeted rudly. As far as their policy of returns, I can't conferm this all all as it seems no one is willing to state what their return policies are. I don't know the weight of the poster's package, but i'm inclined to agree that $100 to ship something twice excessive. While I'd be willing to ship defective goods on my own dime, I'm not willing to pay handling fees for something that is broken. After all, it's not my fault it's defective, and I already paid for it. I wouldn't blame the kids, as they are just following the rules laid out for them. After all, as Bill Claytor pointed out, they are acting with his approval. > That last message is BS. I with a few others I know absolutely refuse to use > Stillen EVER AGAIN. Your customer service KIDS are completely and totally > without education when it comes to good business. You have left a bad taste > in everyones' mouth that I know of. > In response to Mr. Lilly's allegation: > I must admit I was quite surprised by his posting. This was not the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > agreed to ship the exhaust back to the dealer from whom he had > originally bought the system, at no charge if in fact the exhaust was I'd say irrelevant what his claims were. I still remember the classic L.L. Bean story. Some guy bought a pair of boots way back in '55 or so. In '78 or '79, they went bad. L.L. Bean paid for shipping and replaced his "defective" boots. End of story. > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >End of story. LL Bean had a lifetime, no questions asked, warrantee. Look for that to change under the new ownership of Sears. > LL Bean had a lifetime, no questions asked, warrantee. Look for that > to change under the new ownership of Sears. Huh? What are you smoking Bill? How about a link that substantiates that change of ownership. DaveN Almost... Sears bought Land's End last year. Rick SignatureMy real e-mail address is: yofuri@oakharbor.net > > LL Bean had a lifetime, no questions asked, warrantee. Look for that > > to change under the new ownership of Sears. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > DaveN > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Sorry, I had a brain fart. I tried to cancel the message immediately after I discovered my mistake, but it apparently got through. It was Land's End that Sears bought. > I > contacted the place that I originally bought it from and they said > unfortunatly I have to deal with the manufacturer as it falls under > their warrenty. Where do you live? Doesn't your state have consumer protection laws? If the shop sold you an item that wasn't fit for use for the purpose intended, your state probably has a law that says they have to take it back and never mind what the manufacturer says his policy is. Or is it that you're giving us all a warning about the dangers of catalog buying? SignatureJohn Varela I've been entirely too busy lately and haven't been reading usenet. Coincidentally, just today I decided to look into finally modding & upgrading my (now out of warranty) '00 Sentra SE. I was actually looking into these two parts when, during my research, I stumbled upon this thread: http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_detail.asp?cat=2&subcat=&id=4240&page=1 http://www.stillen.com/sportscars_detail.asp?cat=2&subcat=&id=2755&page=1 If this is some elaborate troll then bravo to the original poster & his minions. Conversely, if this is a representative slice of Stillen's 'customer service' then I think I'll be looking elsewhere for my exhaust & intake. Maybe I'll place a call to them tomorrow AM and see how things go. McGarrett Sorry to hear about your problems with Stillen. Here are several email addresses and phone numbers that I was able to dig up out on the WWW Regards, Phil Steve Millen Steve.Millen@stillen.com Steve Millen stevemillen@stillen.com Steve Millen smillen@stillen.com David Scholum davidscholum@stillen.com Adam Hume adam@stillen.com PH: 714-540-9154 X138 800-576-2134 X138 Fax: 714-540-1826 Adam Hume stiladam@fea.net Bill Claytor billc@stillen.com Alex Cates acates@stillen.com Edward Sanchez edwards@stillen.com Donald Weberg Dweberg@Stillen.com PH: 714-540-5566 x156 slsmgr@Stillen.com sportscarsinfo@stillen.com stilleninfo@stillen.com Thanks for the warning! I will not be doing business with Stillen. It seems they want you to go away than fix an oops! James > Originally from > http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=62712 [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > Thank you for reading my post if you can give me links to every other > nissan board you can think of I would be grateful. |
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