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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Maxima / September 20041997 Maxima with MAJOR unidentifiable problem(s)
The car has a high performance intake and had an RF310 AutoPage alarm installed last year. In late April (of '04) the car was "hard starting" - usually in the morning after sitting all night - and when finally started huge puffs of white smoke would come out of the exhaust. Finally wouldn't start at all and had towed to shop. Shop said two of the fuel injectors were stuck wide open and major amounts of fuel were pumping through the system. Replaced the two fuel injectors (to the tune of $400). Picked the car up on a Wed. evening. Seemed to start and run fine. Next morning the car wouldn't start. Went to work, came home, started the car (which started with that "hard start" again). Called the shop - told them the deal. They said it was probably due to excess fuel in the system and once it dried out it would be fine. Started the car the next day (Fri). Drove it all that day. Got home that night (barely) car parked and died. No more starting at all. Back to the shop. Shop now saying that car isn't sparking at all when trying to start. Checked all six ignition switches and NONE sparked which led them to look elsewhere. After 2 weeks of "searching", the shop came to the conclusion that whomever installed the car alarm, wired in to about half of the wires going into the computer and either fried the wiring system and/or fried the computer. Shop replaced the computer which did NOTHING. Now the shop is saying it has to go to an "electrical" specialist to deal with the wiring. This has been darn near 3 months now. I'm seriously considering just taking it to a Nissan dealer, but don't want to 'cause I know they're gonna try to rob me blind for anything they can. Any thoughts, comments, suggestions would be MOST appreciated!!! On 7/9/04 10:46 AM, in article 55787c9dad42b41273fbe1f32615b039@localhost.talkaboutautos.com, "Dusty21271" <dusty21271@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote: > The car has a high performance intake and had an RF310 AutoPage alarm > installed last year. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Any thoughts, comments, suggestions would be MOST appreciated!!! Since the first shop already held you up for a computer, I would say you have already been robbed blind. At least the dealer will probably know how fix it. No, actually they refunded the cost of the computer in full. > On 7/9/04 10:46 AM, in article > 55787c9dad42b41273fbe1f32615b039@localhost.talkaboutautos.com, "Dusty21271" [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > have already been robbed blind. At least the dealer will probably know how > fix it. Don't count on that last part. Some dealers have some good wiring guys and some don't. Where do you live? Ask around and find out who's good. -jim > The car has a high performance intake and had an RF310 AutoPage alarm > installed last year. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Any thoughts, comments, suggestions would be MOST appreciated!!! I have a strange feeling that something has gone amiss with the electronics of the alarm, and its wreaking havoc with the rest of your electrical system. Perhaps its a simple ground issue, maybe not, but chances are that it's probably quite difficult to find. I would remove the alarm completely and see how it goes. I bet the alarm even fried your injectors. CD I think you're right CD. My next question is who do I get to take the alarm out? The place that put it in IS an "authorized" installer of AutoPage. I'm in the Philadelphia area. I'm sensing that this is going to get worse before better... > I bet the alarm even fried > your injectors. An alarm isn't going to fry injectors.. My guess is, since it didn't fix the car, the injectors weren't the problem. I've NEVER seen an injector stick wide open much less 2 of them do it at the same time. The people working on his car are clueless..  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> I bet the alarm even fried >>your injectors. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > wide open much less 2 of them do it at the same time. The people working on > his car are clueless.. I know, but it may cause 1 electrical problem which causes another which would then cause the feul injectors to be fried. How do you like your injectors, crispy or well done?:) CD >>> I bet the alarm even fried >>>your injectors. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > would then cause the feul injectors to be fried. How do you like your > injectors, crispy or well done?:) How are injectors going to "Get fried"? What is going to send more than the system 12V that they operate at? And how would anything electrical make them stick wide open? (Which isn't going to happen anyway) He got screwed paying for the injectors to get replaced as obviously the car is going the exact same thing afterwards, or do you think they were right saying it "Just needs to dry out"?? SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > >>> I bet the alarm even fried > >>>your injectors. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > exact same thing afterwards, or do you think they were right saying it > "Just needs to dry out"?? I wasn't trying to say that the alarm caused the feul injectors to fail. I'm saying that the alarm simply screwed up his system, and may be even his feul injector failure was a false assessment. Case in point: I let the spark plugs in my 96 altima stay in for way too long. I started experiencing drivability problems and knew that I had to do the plugs, but I got lazy and let them stay. The drivability problems got so severe that the car started missfiring. One day while driving up a hill, it was mis-firing so bad and something happened that made the car feel like it was running on 3 cylinders, and the check engine light came on. When I got home I opened the hood and found that one spark plug wires had popped off of a plug, so I was running on 3 cylinders:) I did a diagnostic on the check engine light and got a host of codes: miss-fire, cylinder 3 and 2, distributor problem and, get this: feul injection system failure. Had I gone to a Nissan dealer thay would have robbed me blind on all those codes. I changed the plugs and all the codes dis-appeared. The car's been running great ever since. And I change the plugs now every 30K miles:) Lesson learned was that a simple delayed spark plug change really messed with the ECU. Imagine what a badly installed alarm could do. It could even fry the ECU. CD I am so seriously about to set this car on fire and call it a day!!!!! The electrical place said it was absolutely the alarm that is causing all of these problems because it should NEVER have been wired through the ECU. However, they won't remove it. They said to take it back to who installed it and have them un-install it. Now why would I take it back to the idiots who installed it (obviously wrong) and trust them to un-install it properly???? I picked the car up from the shop last Tuesday (7/13) since they have officially given up on it - since everyone thinks it's the alarm. NOW GET THIS - how about the stupid thing ran FINE for about 4 days. Started with the same problems again (the "hard starting") on Saturday, and now (Monday) will not start at all. It cranks, but won't turn over. So now it's sitting in front of my house, where it will remain until I hit the lottery so I can afford to take it to a dealer where, at this point, I think is the ONLY place I'm really going to get to the bottom of all of this... The moral of the story is - NEVER have an after market alarm installed in your vehicle. Dusty > I am so seriously about to set this car on fire and call it a day!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > The moral of the story is - NEVER have an after market alarm installed in > your vehicle. -If- they are right about it being the alarm or if it is in fact wired into the ECU. I highly doubt either of these places have a clue as to what is realy going on. Anyone with a brain could remove an alarm and wire the car back like it was. Might not be cheap but it could be done. The fact the it ran fine and now doesn't tell me: A) There was nothing wrong with your old injectors. B) It isn't likely a "wiring harness" problem. You are right, don't take it back to the place that did the alarm. Have you looked around for a place the specializes in your car? A nissan specific repair shop should be able to deal with this if you are this paranoid to go to the dealer. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Steve, you're exactly right. Neither of these places seem to be able to identify what is wrong, but are absolutely positive that the alarm is the cause. I don't really understand how one can determine a cause of a problem if one can't determine the actual problem, but hey, what do I know... As for taking it to the dealer, it's not a matter of being paranoid, it's a matter of $$$$$$$$$$$$. I was wondering if I should look into a "foreign car" shop or a shop that specializes in Nissan. Do you think that would still be cheaper than taking it to the dealer? I'll tell you this much, if I do end up taking it to the dealer, spending a small fortune to have it fixed and it's STILL not right, the car may come in violent contact with the alarm place!!! Oh wait, I just had another thought - how about if I take it to the dealer and they can absolutely guarantee that the alarm is the cause of all of this, that may put me in a pretty good position to have the alarm shop pay for all of this...??? > Steve, you're exactly right. Neither of these places seem to be able to > identify what is wrong, but are absolutely positive that the alarm is the > cause. I don't really understand how one can determine a cause of a > problem if one can't determine the actual problem, but hey, what do I > know... You're right. Until you find/diagnose the problem you don't know what the problem is. IMHO they are passing the buck because they can't figure out what is going on. > As for taking it to the dealer, it's not a matter of being paranoid, it's > a matter of $$$$$$$$$$$$. Think about it, you've already been taken by these guys, it took monthst without your car to do it and your car is still screwed up. > I was wondering if I should look into a > "foreign car" shop or a shop that specializes in Nissan. Do you think > that would still be cheaper than taking it to the dealer? Probably would be if you can find someone sharp enough to find the real problem. > Oh wait, I just had another thought - how about if I take it to the dealer > and they can absolutely guarantee that the alarm is the cause of all of > this, that may put me in a pretty good position to have the alarm shop pay > for all of this...??? Probably have to take them to small claims court, might take that first shop there as well since they replaced your injectors and you still had the exact same problem? SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Eh ? An alarm/remote start has to touch factory wiring..period. Touching the ECU is another question. If it is remote start, it has to get the tach pulse and the only way to do it within reasonable sense is to hit the ECU. If not, go and hit the ignition coils..which can be cumbersome. It looks like every place you are taking this car to has peoople who like to "guess" I guess it is the alarm, I guess it is the computer etc. etc. The electrical place just does not want the liability for working on a mess..understandable. They also don't do a good job of explaining the issue..just passing the blame.. The Nissan maxima has a history of bad fuel injector design. Look all the way back to 87-88 2nd gen maxima's when they caught fire in the engine bay and they had to issue a recall.. 3rd gen 89-94 and 4th gen 95-99 all have fuel injection problems. Add electroic gremlins such as Mass airflow, fuel pump's, fuel pressure regulator's and bad grounding points to the list..Don't forget the favorite o2 sensor and evap canister codes... Try something simple. put the car in valet mode where it disables the alarm and try to drive it/start it... No spark can be a Camshaft sensor issue. another notorious issue with maxima's. Have a shop check the cam sensor and the transistor unit that goes along with it.. Other things to lookout for.. * Fuel pump and Fuel pump relay (fuse/relay box) * ECU relay (green colored relay in fuse/relay box) * Coolant temp sensor (wrong/failed readings throw off engine ECU) the only common issues that I have seen working with maxima's and alarms/starter is the failure to integrate the aftermarket alarm with the factory alarm..and failure to properly wire with diodes/relays the lock/unlock circuit to the doorlock timer, thus blowing it sky high due to alternating resistance in the lock/unlock circuit. I own 2 maxima's and an infiniti J30 Good cars..can be stubborn to fix when they act up.. Check out www.4dsc.com and forums.maxima.org Good luck and keep us posted. > I am so seriously about to set this car on fire and call it a day!!!!! > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Dusty > Try something simple. put the car in valet mode where it disables the > alarm and try to drive it/start it... > > No spark can be a Camshaft sensor issue. another notorious issue with > maxima's. Have a shop check the cam sensor and the transistor unit that > goes along with it.. I don't intend to hijack here, but what is the transistor unit with the CmPS? I just ran the FSM troubleshooting procedure for the CmPS and I don't recall seeing anything with a transistor unit. Dave I checked out that forums.maxima.org site (briefly while at work), and it seems incredibly useful!! I did do the "put the car in valet mode" suggestion and it seemed to work - initially. I've actually disconnected the alarm brain (at least I think I did) so that the alarm shouldn't be sending any signals anywhere, but it's back to the cranking and not starting at all. It seems that if I fiddle with a few things (disconnect and then reconnect sensors), I can get it to start, but I am by no means any mechanic and really don't know what I'm doing and dont' want to mess this up more than it already is. Not to mention it's extremely aggrevating and no guarantee that it WILL start. I truly believe at this point that a dealer is the only way to go - at least to identify what is going on. Thanks so much for all of your input and I most definately will keep you posted!! Dusty I also posted in the maxima.org forums ... I think there's too much concentration on electronics and fuel delivery. A very similar issue happened to me on my '98 (intermittent hard starts getting worse over an 8-9 month period and then more dead than starting). Nissan was blaming it on the color of the pavement (no, not literally) and I wound up with a new fuel filter, ignition switch, cleaned fuel injectors - none of which worked. Finally I contacted a maxima.org enthusiast, Dave B, and he informed me that Maxima starters are weak. They have improved the gearing to provide more torque to turn the motor over on the OEM version having realized the weakness. Put a new starter in my car and haven't had a problem since. FYI - the bad starter was also seemingly sending electrical spikes or interference that my aftermarket stereo would pick up as pops. Once the starter was replaced, these 6 month old sounds magically disappeared. I'm only guessing this to be possible, but it seems plausible. . . . . . . > The Nissan maxima has a history of bad fuel injector design. Look all > the way back to 87-88 2nd gen maxima's when they caught fire in the > engine bay and they had to issue a recall.. 3rd gen 89-94 and 4th gen > 95-99 all have fuel injection problems. . . . . . . . . . Ummm, no way do 95-99 Maximas have feul injection problems. > > The moral of the story is - NEVER have an after market alarm installed in > > your vehicle. Agreed . . sortof. You just have to pick a very very good installer who knows his way around your car. > > Dusty CD Yes I agree with CD...there is no way it can be fuel injector problems...and that you are still gettin' the same problem after it is changed....that mech is bull-crapping you. Anyhow, my deal here in Canada are no thief so if something like this major, they are the best source...at least they know Nissan very well. I know I can trust my dealer...but then I started to fix the Maxima up myself now that it is reaching its age...but it still runs bitter-sweet. Look out for MIL light...my Maxima always acts up with this light...but there ought to be something going on everytime the MIL light comes on Tedson > The car has a high performance intake and had an RF310 AutoPage alarm > installed last year. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Called the shop - told them the deal. They said it was probably due to > excess fuel in the system and once it dried out it would be fine. These guys are IDIOTS. This "needs to dry out" is the dumbest line of BS I've ever heard! > This has been darn near 3 months now. I'm seriously considering just > taking it to a Nissan dealer, but don't want to 'cause I know they're > gonna try to rob me blind for anything they can. You've already been robbed and been without your car for 3 months to boot!! :-) I'd get my car away from those morons before they total your car out and get it to either a dealer or someone with a brain in their head. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Hi, Take it to the dealer, it probably will not be as bad as you think. There are HONEST dealers around, I know because there is one in my town, at least they will be able to tell you what is wrong with the car even if you do not authorize them to fix it, (you don't HAVE to let them fix it you know, just diagnose it, and take it elsewhere, if you feel their price is too high) just sack it up and go to the dealer, they are trained NISSAN techs, sometimes it just pays to let the people who KNOW the car to work on it. Anyway with what ever you decide, good luck 2Maximas OH and I would take the alarm out,(at least I would, especially if you think that is part of the problem, and from what you have described, I think it probably is part of the problem too) heck, anybody can trace the wires from the alarm unit to where they go and disconnect them......it's not rocket science. > The car has a high performance intake and had an RF310 AutoPage alarm > installed last year. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Any thoughts, comments, suggestions would be MOST appreciated!!! Oh, this just keeps getting better and better!!! So I took it to a Nissan dealer (had it towed - AGAIN - thank g-d for AAA!!). I think I had it towed there the last week of July. After having it for 2 weeks without even looking at it, they FINALLY looked at it last week (8/17/04). Took them a day and a half to figure out what was wrong with it. They finally determined that there were two wires that were either crossing or shorting out and they were causing the OC sensor and the Crank Shaft sensor to go bad. They fixed that, got the car running and then determined there was a mis-fire problem. They fixed that. So they call on 8/20/04 and say the car is fixed it's running great, the check engine light (which had been on for over a year) was not on anymore, no codes were coming up on the diagnostic, it's in perfect running condition and come pick it up whenever. The bill for all of that was $1,164.71. Okay, not great, but not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. So last night (8/25/04) I go pick it up. How about out of that bill, only $84 dollars was for parts and the rest was for labor....man I'm in the wrong line of business! Now, ready for this... I literally pull in my driveway (by the way I'm about 40 min. away from the dealer) and the friggin check engine light comes on. Well at this point it's now after 9pm so no one is even at the dealer to call. So this morning I go out to go to work hoping that it's just the stupid check engine light for some reason and I get about 4 blocks from my house and the car just dies. After about 15 min. I get it started again and it sputters the entire way back to the house. So I call the dealer and tell them that as soon as I got home last night the check engine light came on and so on. So here's what they say to me "bring it in and we'll look at it." I swear if I could have reached through the phone and choked the idiot on the other end I would have. Anyway, I say "uh, sir, did you not hear me when I said IT DOESN'T RUN???" I said "you're 40 min. away from me and I AM NOT paying to have it towed to you." They said "well, we have a towing service that will come tow it and then after we look at it, if we determine that the problem is related to something we worked on, we'll pay for the tow. However, if it is a problem that is unrelated to what we already worked on, we'll bill you for the tow along with the repairs." OH HELL NO!!!! Like they're really going to call and say "yeah, it was our fault, sorry, we'll pay for it" - like that might happen. So now I REALLY don't know what to do. It's been 4 months, 2 shops, the dealership and almost $1800 later and it's still messed up...... I can't take much more! Okay, here's the latest - the dealer STILL has the car and they are now saying that they need to replace the wire harness because every time they fix one wire another one breaks and they just don't understand why. $972.22 plus tax will be the cost for this. Here's where I lose my mind... I just paid those (insert expletives here) darn near $1200 for apparently NOTHING and now they want darn near another GRAND for something that in my opinion (according to what they are saying) should have been done in the first place. This is EXACTLY why I didn't want to take it to a dealer in the first place!!!!! HELP PLEASE!!!!! If the copper wire is actually breaking then that means either the root cause of the problem has not yet been identified or the problem was caused during manufacture of the car. Time to sit down with the Service Manager and have a heart to heart about giving you break. > Okay, here's the latest - the dealer STILL has the car and they are now > saying that they need to replace the wire harness because every time they [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > HELP PLEASE!!!!! Yeah ... and FYI ... Customer Service guys are SALESMEN. They make a commission off the services they sell. Not to say this is every service guy's only motivation, but definitely to be considered. -Big_Ham www.maximafreak.com |
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