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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Maxima / August 2004Intermittent Hard Start, 97 Max
My 97SE 5spd (121k) has given me intermittent starting problems. It began in winter as a refusal to crank. Key off, key on, still wouldn't crank. If I removed the key and reinserted it, it would crank and start as normal. In the last couple months, it's been a little different - my starter always cranks, but sometimes the engine won't turn over for at least 5s of straight cranking. This is my current demon, and I don't like it because it may decide one day to not turn over, or I'll fry the starter from overuse. No codes from the ECU. Where to begin? Alternator is 20k old, starter is 40k old. I'd hate to think they need replacement AGAIN. Dave > My 97SE 5spd (121k) has given me intermittent starting problems. <snip> > In the last couple months, it's been a little different - my starter > always cranks, but sometimes the engine won't turn over for at least 5s of > straight cranking. <snip> Dave, Are you saying that you can hear the starter spinning, but the engine is not turning over? and then all of a sudden you hear the engine start turning over (i.e. after 5s of starter spinning)... or by "turn over" do you mean that it takes 5 seconds for the engine to actually start running/catch...i.e. whir-whir-whir of engine for 5 seconds and then it fires up. Nirav 96 Max GLE, 106k > > My 97SE 5spd (121k) has given me intermittent starting problems. > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > is not turning over? and then all of a sudden you hear the engine > start turning over (i.e. after 5s of starter spinning)... No > or by "turn > over" do you mean that it takes 5 seconds for the engine to actually > start running/catch...i.e. whir-whir-whir of engine for 5 seconds and > then it fires up. Yes. The starter doesn't seem to have trouble turning the engine, it would then be the spark or fuel that's delaying the engine start. Thanks for your time. > Nirav > 96 Max GLE, 106k > My 97SE 5spd (121k) has given me intermittent starting problems. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Dave I'm confused. Do you mean the engine spins (turns over) and doesn't start or it doesn't turn over? If the later, does it have spark? Does the fuel pump run when you turn the key to "on" for a couple seconds? If you have spark and fuel pressure, I'd check the temp sender (the ECU may think the engine is already warm and not enrichen the mixture). -jim > > My 97SE 5spd (121k) has given me intermittent starting problems. > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -jim Sorry, turns over means to me that the engine begins to run. My starter always cranks and seems to have no trouble getting the flywheel in motion. I do not know how to directly check on the fuel pump - by sound, or by some type of test? I definitely don't want to tee into the fuel lines to test the pressure. I will look into the coolant temp sensor - based on my reading that's also a pretty common failure item. Dave > Sorry, turns over means to me that the engine begins to run. My starter > always cranks and seems to have no trouble getting the flywheel in motion. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Dave Dave, unfortunately maxima.org is currently down, but you will find that many 4th Gen owners are experiencing similar hard starting symptoms - lots of cranking before the engine eventually catches. No one has found a common root cause.. but here are some ideas. 1. Loss of fuel pressure Turn the key to the position just before the start/on where the engine cranks, and wait for 10 seconds - this may help build up fuel pressure in the lines. Then start the car and see if it makes any difference. You might have a leaky injector and might be losing residual fuel pressure in the lines. You might also have a bad fuel pressure regulator (but would consider a leaky injector more likely). 2. Bad ECTS It could infact be your ECTS (coolant temperature sensor). As Jim already stated, it might be false signalling the ECU that the car is warm - thus too lean an air/fuel mixture is being setup on cold starts. Does this problem only happen when the car is cold or hot or both? 3. You may want to try to clean the throttle body and IACV. These both tend to suffer from carbon build up and cleaning them can have a very positive effect on starting/idling/throttle response. 4. I have read about faulty crank-angle sensors causing hard-starting - but don't have any experience with this first-hand. Maybe Nisstech can shed some light on the role of crank-angle sensors and whether or not they can cause hard-starts. I believe the VQ engines have two crank-angle sensors. Regards, Nirav 96 Max GLE, 106k "Nirav J. Modi" <njmodi2@yahoo.com> wrote in message > 1. Loss of fuel pressure > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 4. I have read about faulty crank-angle sensors causing hard-starting > - but don't have any experience with this first-hand. Do any of the above throw CEL codes? Well today the car gave me some more extra-crank starts (about 5 sec of cranking each time - first time engine was dead cold, second time it was pretty warm). CEL came on, the codes were 0325 (Knock Sensor) and 0340(Camshaft Angle Sensor). Per the FSM, I checked the wiring for both, and the camshaft sensor was fine. Didn't take out the Knock to test it. FSM suggests that the CAS code can be tripped by starter problems - any ideas where to begin inspecting the starter? Dave "David Geesaman" <dgeesaman@yahoo.com> wrote in message > Do any of the above throw CEL codes? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Dave Dave, The ECTS and crank angle sensors should throw codes.. but sometimes the ECTS is marginal and may not trip the CEL... I can look in my FSM to see if they suggest a way to test the camshaft angle sensor (the code you got).. let me know if you need that info. I don't know much about the CAS - so I can't comment on how the starter would cause a failure in that part... I'll dig around and see if I can find any other pertinent info. Nirav > "David Geesaman" <dgeesaman@yahoo.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Nirav Thanks for your time, Nirav. I don't think the CmAS is at fault - I went through the complete troubleshooting for it according to the FSM. I still need to troubleshoot the ECTS, and since that's a common failure it should be worth checking or replacing altogether (since it's probably not expensive). Dave "David Geesaman" <dgeesamandontspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message > Thanks for your time, Nirav. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > it should be worth checking or replacing altogether (since it's probably not > expensive). Dave, the ECTS is relatively cheap - ~25 bucks... you can order it from jerry rome (jrnissanparts.com) or even some local auto stores have them for about the same price... see partsamerica.com (search for 385154) - its 26 bucks there. You can get an original nissan one for the $22+S&H from Jerry Rome or Courtesy Nissan... I think the Nissan part number is 2263044B20. Double check though because I wasn't able to completely verify that the Nissan part number is the ECTS as opposed to the temperature sending sensor for the instrument cluster. Nirav 2 crank sensors and 1 cam sensor, at least that is what my 97 has. I had the crank sensor in the rear (the one closer to the drivers side, the other one is right under the crank belt pulley) go bad and it was just like I had turned the ignition switch off, engine just shut down IMMEDIATELY! I too have the "hard start problem, and have cleaned the throttle body, replaced 1 crank sensor, changed the fuel filter, and tried numerous other so called "fixes" and none have done the trick. All have helped with the general engine running though....mine does it only when warm. First start in the morning is 1 second or so of cranking and it starts right up, but if I have driven it at all that day it may or may not occur. I have yet to figure it out. I am going to put an extra grounding kit on it. I have heard that that sometimes helps, if anyone finds the root cause PLEASE post it here. Thanks 2Maximas By the way my 96 SE does NOT have the problem.(I have 2 Maximas a 96SE and a 97 GXE converted to an SE clone, thus the moniker of "2maximas") I will say that the crank sensors are magnetic, thus allowing any metal shavings to stick to it causing most likely a weak signal to the ECU....just a thought, might want to remove and clean them....I did mine but to no avail... > > Sorry, turns over means to me that the engine begins to run. My starter > > always cranks and seems to have no trouble getting the flywheel in motion. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Nirav > 96 Max GLE, 106k > 2 crank sensors and 1 cam sensor, at least that is what my 97 has. I had the > crank sensor in the rear (the one closer to the drivers side, the other one [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Thanks > 2Maximas I guess you missed the last post on this issue. It began as an intermittent hard start and became more frequent. The first time I got two consecutive hard starts it finally popped a CEL with Knock and Camshaft Position Sensor codes. I fully evaulated the CmPS system per the FSM and it passed all those tests. So I hesitated to replace the sensor ($65). Meanwhile, symptoms persisted for a couple more days until intermittent became permanent. CmPS and KS codes again. So 5 days later, the new CmPS finally arrived and in 30s I installed it and it started right up. So when the ECU decides the sensor isn't working - believe it. Dave I have not got any CEL indications, but I sure would like to find out what is wrong with mine! It is extremely aggravating. So you replaced Which sensor? and you did not change the knock sensor? Maybe I need to check the knock sensor,,,,I did just order an interface to connect a laptop to my cars computer, supposed to do allot more than just read codes. I posted about it earlier today....we'll see what it can tell me! Thanks John > > 2 crank sensors and 1 cam sensor, at least that is what my 97 has. I had > the [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Dave > I have not got any CEL indications, but I sure would like to find out what > is wrong with mine! It is extremely aggravating. So you replaced Which [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks > John Replaced Camshaft Position Sensor. Also replaced the coolant temp sensor, but that didn't fix it. I suggest you replace the coolant TS first since I heard it won't throw codes and can give these symptoms. $20 at Autozone, took 5 mins. The knock sensor is not part of the starting circuit, so unless that code is going off all alone, it's safe to ignore. Dave I don't know whether this might help- My 1995 Max suddenly gave me intermittent starting problems today - engine would crank and sometimes start and run, or start and stall, or just not start at all. I swapped around some of the relays (identical to each other, of course) and discovered that the "EGI" relay in the "relay box" by the radiator above the transmission was causing the problem. When I put another relay in it's place, the problem went away. Hope this may help in some way. |
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