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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Maxima / August 2004Fix Engine or Buy a New or Rebuilt Engine or Scrap Car?
I have a 1998 Mercury Villager minivan - it uses the Maxima engine. The camshaft broke and I have no compression in the cylinders on that side of the engine. I expect the pistons and valves had some contact as this is an interference engine. I am wondering if it is worth repairing the existing engine (105K miles) or to try to get a low mile used one or a remanufactured one. I'm under no time pressure as we have replaced the car already. I somewhat think is would be fun to try and fix on my own as I have all the tools and can have the head machined at a local place if necessary. However, if past lessons learned indicated getting a new engine is the way to go then I do not want to waste my time. I'd say the car is worth $4K approx on the used market if working well. If the total repair is in the $3K range, then I should just try to sell the car as is for $1000. If I can fix it myself for 20 hrs labor of my time and $500 in parts, then I would do it. Appreciate any advise from the Maxima engine experts out there. Thanks Greg Roscoe, IL buy a used engine off of ebay.... I have seen them as low as 350 bucks. That is the way I would go if my Max. engine took a dump....Then you could certainly get your money back out of the car! (if you do the work yourself) just my 2 cents worth. Bitsbucket > I have a 1998 Mercury Villager minivan - it uses the Maxima engine. > The camshaft broke and I have no compression in the cylinders on that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Greg > Roscoe, IL I just checked, there are several Maxima engines for that price range, one with LOW miles too, but it has a cracked timing cover, but you could use yours, I believe it had about 28K miles on it....anyway like I said, there are several in the 350 buck price range... Bitsbucket > I have a 1998 Mercury Villager minivan - it uses the Maxima engine. > The camshaft broke and I have no compression in the cylinders on that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Greg > Roscoe, IL I thought the villager used the old Maxima engine (pre-95) with a timing belt. Will the newer one even fit? It probably won't bolt up without modifying something. On 8/21/04 2:45 PM, in article mDNVc.970$rP2.246@hydra.nntpserver.com, > I just checked, there are several Maxima engines for that price range, one > with LOW miles too, but it has a cracked timing cover, but you could use [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 There are the older ones available too.......even cheaper...if that is what he needs. I was going on HIS statement, that a Max motor is what he needed, if he needs the SOHC or the later DOHC both are available. Prices are right too! bitsbucket > I thought the villager used the old Maxima engine (pre-95) with a timing > belt. Will the newer one even fit? It probably won't bolt up without [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 8/19/2004 The engine in your Quest/Villager is indeed a VG30E. The engine is similar to the one used in the maxima in most respects. If the timing belt breaks in a Maxima it will definitely bend the valves , if it happens in a Quest/Villager it won't bend valves. The story goes like this. When ford and Nissan got together to build the vehicle, Ford made it clear to Nissan that they did not want an interference engine to be used. So Nissan caved to Fords wishes . I have dealt with the broken cams on Quests before, If it broke the front cam (one nearest the radiator) the head does not need to come off to get the cam out. Just replace the cam and install a new timing belt and you'll be good to go. > I have a 1998 Mercury Villager minivan - it uses the Maxima engine. > The camshaft broke and I have no compression in the cylinders on that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Greg > Roscoe, IL > I have a 1998 Mercury Villager minivan - it uses the Maxima engine. > The camshaft broke and I have no compression in the cylinders on that > side of the engine. I expect the pistons and valves had some contact > as this is an interference engine. That engine isn't worth fixing, throw a used one in and and next time change the oil every once in a while. BTW that "car" with a blown engine -might- be worth $500 at best.  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com I have to ask the obvious question here that every one seems to have forgotten. and that is. Why was a compression check done to it when it has a broken cam and or stripped teeth on the timing belt. Of course the thing will show no compression, the freaking cam is broke and the valve train is out of time , what were you expecting to see , 130 plus p.s.i per cylinder. IT AIN"T GUNNA HAPPEN with a broken cam and or a stripped belt Get a cam and a timing belt, replace the broken cam , put the valve train in time, install the timing belt and then check the compression. Let me know you results. Remember what I wrote before, the Quest/Villager engine will NOT bend the valves if the timing belt or cam breaks. > I have a 1998 Mercury Villager minivan - it uses the Maxima engine. > The camshaft broke and I have no compression in the cylinders on that [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Greg > Roscoe, IL Hey NissTech, Will the Maxima engine bolt into a Quest and visa versa? Or are tranny and engine mounts a problem? Thanks > I have to ask the obvious question here that every one seems to have > forgotten. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Greg > > Roscoe, IL > I have to ask the obvious question here that every one seems to have > forgotten. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Why was a compression check done to it when it has a broken cam and or > stripped teeth on the timing belt. The other -obvious to me- question is why did the cam break to start with? Does this model have a history of bad camshafts? The only time I've seen cams break is from oil starvation and throwing another cam in will just create another broken cam unless the oiling problem is solved. But yea someone was clueless for checking the compression with a broken camshaft! :-) SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com IF they did not know what was wrong with the car then a compression check would be part of standard troubleshooting procedure, would it not? Did it ever OCCUR to anyone that is how they FOUND the broken camshaft??????? Give the guy a break, for crying out loud..... sh.t, checking for fire, fuel, and compression, would be the FIRST place to start....takes all 3 to get an engine to run.....right? or am I missing something? Seems like to me it does take all 3 and if I found a cylinder getting fire, and fuel, then I WOULD RUN A COMPRESSION CHECK. Then there it woul be..(drum roll please)..no compression, if a bank of 3 had the same problem on a DUAL overhead cam engine, then it would be safe to deduce that you had a cam problem, (broken belt, chain, whatever), but I would not suspect a BROKEN cam I have not seen that happen too often. (worn lobes yes, cam in 2 pieces NO) and no, I am not a Nissan mechanic, I guess if I were and knew that Nissan Quest motors were prone to f.cking breaking cams then I would find the problem sooner....(if this is an ongoing problem then there should be a class action against Nissan).. bad cam baaaaaaaaaaaad cam....no TV for you tonight!!! HAHAHA bitsbucket > > I have to ask the obvious question here that every one seems to have > > forgotten. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > But yea someone was clueless for checking the compression with a broken > camshaft! :-) > IF they did not know what was wrong with the car then a compression check > would be part of standard troubleshooting procedure, would it not? Did it > ever OCCUR to anyone that is how they FOUND the broken camshaft??????? > Give the guy a break, for crying out loud..... > sh.t, checking for fire, fuel, and compression, would be the FIRST place > to start... Well first off it would turn over -really- weird sounding if the cam was broken. Second it wouldn't have any spark because the cam was broken, third it wouldn't have any fire because the cam was broken. > Seems like to me it does take all 3 and if I found a cylinder > getting fire, and fuel, then I WOULD RUN A COMPRESSION CHECK. But it wouldn't have fire or fuel. Just listening to the engine you'd know from the uneven sound several cyl or more have no compression and since the dist wouldn't be turning, that would be another big clue. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Well put Steve. hey do you want to come to Florida , we could open up a Nissan specialty shop and make some real jack. > > IF they did not know what was wrong with the car then a compression check > > would be part of standard troubleshooting procedure, would it not? Did it [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > from the uneven sound several cyl or more have no compression and since the > dist wouldn't be turning, that would be another big clue. > Well put Steve. > > hey do you want to come to Florida , we could open up a Nissan specialty > shop and make some real jack. Been there done that. Owned a nissan/honda shop for about 10 years, made enough money to pay off my house, 'bout had a heart attack from the stress and am taking it easy now, letting someone else stress out over running the place. :-) SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Thanks for letting me know the engine is non interference. I meet with the owner of the dealer tomorrow. We wants to see my oil change records as the camshaft area is "waxy" around the cover. Fortunately I have all oil change records (even used Mobile 1 Synthetic a few time going back to when I bought the car two years and 40,000 miles ago. Oil was changed regularly and I only used name brand stuff. Perhaps the previous owner was not so religious about oil changes but would'nt the failure have occurred before?? My Synthetic uses must have also been benifical. The camshaft failing at the overhung moment bearing one month after a timing belt change is where I am hanging my hat. If it was oil starvation, I'm told the bearings would go and not the shaft. I'll let everyone know the outcome of the meeting with the owner. Hopefully we can reach some kind of agreement. > I have to ask the obvious question here that every one seems to have > forgotten. [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Greg > > Roscoe, IL > Perhaps > the previous owner was not so religious about oil changes but would'nt > the failure have occurred before?? Nope. > My Synthetic uses must have also > been benifical. Not really. I'm not so sure switching back and forth didn't help cause this. > The camshaft failing at the overhung moment bearing > one month after a timing belt change is where I am hanging my hat. If > it was oil starvation, I'm told the bearings would go and not the > shaft. Wrong, the "bearings" are they cylinder head itself, that are machined into the head. There are no "bearings" so when the cam journal gall, it siezes and snaps the cam or the belt. It ruins the head and many times the oil jets in the block are also plugged up. Who ever told you "the bearings would go" is used to working on american V8's. > I'll let everyone know the outcome of the meeting with the > owner. Hopefully we can reach some kind of agreement. Again it's not their fault, it's not their car and changing a timing belt isn't going to cause a camshaft to starve for oil and seize in the head. I'm sure you'd like to -make- this their fault because they were the last ones to touch it but it's not right to even go there. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > Again it's not their fault, it's not their car and changing a timing belt > isn't going to cause a camshaft to starve for oil and seize in the head. I agree the timing belt change does not affect the oil. However, overtightning the belt (even using the wrong belt as there are two P/Ns) or using the wrong tool (perhaps an impact one, wacking the cam pully by mistake, etc) may have caused the camshaft to bend slightly such that it goes in compression/tension with each rotation and cause a fatique failure at the first bearing support. If it was oil starvation, I would expect to see signs of high temperature on the shaft. I am going to propose that a professional lab (3rd party) confirm the mechanics of the failure. If the dealer is not inserested in this approach, then I need to go up the ladder or small claims court. More to follow. > > Perhaps > > the previous owner was not so religious about oil changes but would'nt [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > I'm sure you'd like to -make- this their fault because they were the last > ones to touch it but it's not right to even go there. >> Again it's not their fault, it's not their car and changing a timing >> belt [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > overtightning the belt (even using the wrong belt as there are two > P/Ns) Nope, that wouldn't break the cam, it would cause a VERY noisy belt and shred it first. Seen that happen a couple of times from owners doing their own T-belts. > or using the wrong tool (perhaps an impact one, wacking the cam > pully by mistake, etc) You have any idea how much force it would take to -bend- a camshaft? Obviously you don't. Or that it would break before it bent anyway. > may have caused the camshaft to bend slightly > such that it goes in compression/tension with each rotation and cause > a fatique failure at the first bearing support. Puleeeeze. You're dreaming up senerios to make this not your fault. The only thing that's going to break a camshaft in that engine is oil starvation caused from poor mantainace. Given you bought it used, you have no ideas what was done before you bought it. > If it was oil > starvation, I would expect to see signs of high temperature on the > shaft. I am going to propose that a professional lab (3rd party) > confirm the mechanics of the failure. And spend what doing this? $1000, $5000? Have you actually even seen the parts? Are -you- going to pay to have it disassembled and tested to prove this theory or is the mechainc guilty until proven innocent? > If the dealer is not inserested > in this approach, then I need to go up the ladder or small claims > court. Translation: I'm a typical american and want to make someone else responcible for my problems. You're the same guy who trips over his dog's leash in front of my house and then sues the home owner... Please take them to court. I've been dozens of time defending myself against people like you who won't accept responcibility for their problems and trust me, you WILL lose. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Thank you for the very emotional and entertaining response. What is lacking in this case is objective criteria. Until the suspect part is pulled from the engine and evualuted everything is speculation. I'm told by the experts (I work at a company that provides failure analysis services) that the camshaft will tell the story (temp or fatique failure) without much effort. I'll post a follow up later for other interested parties. I hope you're wrong but at least I'll keep an open mind. > >> Again it's not their fault, it's not their car and changing a timing > >> belt [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > people like you who won't accept responcibility for their problems and > trust me, you WILL lose. > Thank you for the very emotional and entertaining response. What is > lacking in this case is objective criteria. And you -assuming it's their fault- is objective? Yea you have no vested interest in this. :-) I just get sick of people who won't accept responcibility for their own problems/actions. Your -used- car has over 100K and an unknown history, has an oil related failure and you want someone else to take care of your problem so you don't have to. > Until the suspect part is > pulled from the engine and evualuted everything is speculation. Yep and who should have to pay to have the part removed to be evaluated? You make it sound like this part just slips out of the engine. You dream up this "They bent my camshaft" which isn't even possible. Less the 1/4 inch is sticking out of the engine, how could they bend a cast shaft supported in bearings? You could hit the part sticking out with a sledge hammer and it wouldn't bend the camshaft. I've seen a dozen brokens cams and every time it was oil related and trashed the journals in the head too. How many broken camshafts in these engines have you inspected? > I'm > told by the experts (I work at a company that provides failure > analysis services) that the camshaft will tell the story (temp or > fatique failure) without much effort. If you aren't doing the work removing the part it isn't much effort. > I'll post a follow up later for > other interested parties. I hope you're wrong but at least I'll keep > an open mind. I won't be and we realize you hope you can make someone else take respocibilty from your lifes problems. Like most people, you don't get that you have the burdon of proof. If taken to court, you have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt they caused this failure. Even if there is no heat damage and the part failed from fatigue, it's got over 100,000 miles and you think a judge will believe this isn't enough miles to cause fatigue on a part? But then again many people will waste their time and others in hopes of not having to take care of themselves. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Thank you for your constructive much earlier comments regarding the NFE (I did not know). The dealer owner and I are working together on creative win-win solutions to the camshaft faiure and I expect a positive outcome. Sorry for boring other readers with this long exchange. > > Thank you for the very emotional and entertaining response. What is > > lacking in this case is objective criteria. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > But then again many people will waste their time and others in hopes of not > having to take care of themselves. |
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