Nissan Maxima 93 runs on five occasionally

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Mika - 18 Aug 2004 22:05 GMT

I'd appreciate some help on this one. I've been investigating a 1993
Nissan Maxima (3.0, 6-cyl, less than 100 000 miles on it) which
occasionally runs only with five cylinders. Here are the facts:

When the car runs normally with six, it's not jerky, it accelerates
normally, just like it should. When it runs with five, the five cyls
seem to work ok but the failing one doesn't work at all, it misses on
every round.

Based on exhaust diagnostics, the carbon hydride level is ok but
oxygen is bit high so obviously the problem is that the one cylinder
does not get gas. The plug gives spark ok.

I'm pretty baffled with this one. Electrical problem? Faulty fuel
injector? Or what? I've asked a couple of shops whether they could do
something to it but none of them seem to have a clue about the
problem. They said that they could start by replacing the fuel
injector but with bad luck that would just be an expensive job with no
help. Thus I'd appreciate on your help if you have encountered such a
problem or could give me any diagnostic hints. Below are some of my
observations about the problem. However, as the problem is occasional,
it's pretty difficult to say whether these observations are worth
anything...

After cold start, the car sometimes runs with six, sometimes with
five. There might be some connection with stopping to traffic lights
and accelerating and losing the one cylinder as quite often during the
acceleration the problematic cylinder starts missing. On the other
hand, after losing the cylinder it might suddenly come back a couple
of seconds later. But it can miss for dozens of miles in a row. If the
engine is stopped when it runs on five and immediately started again
the problem seens to persist. But if the engine is on stop for a
couple of minutes and it's then started again, it might very well run
with six.

Gas additives which should clean the fuel injectors have not helped.

What I'm wondering:

If the fuel injector is faulty, why the car sometimes works ok for
dozens of miles? Can it just lock closed somehow and then, suddenly,
after some shock (a bump on the road for example) open up and start
working ok? How does the fuel injector work after all? What causes the
fuel injector to inject fuel, some signal from "the box" or is it
purely mechanical? If the injector uses electricity to open, could
"the box" be broken this way?

Please, any help is appreciated. The car is in great shape except for
this and has probably a hundred thousand more miles on road left :)

Br,

Mika

Reply to this Message

Bill G - 19 Aug 2004 04:39 GMT

> X-No-archive: yes
>
> I'd appreciate some help on this one. I've been investigating a 1993
> Nissan Maxima (3.0, 6-cyl, less than 100 000 miles on it)

GXE or SE? They had different engines in '92-'94.

which

> occasionally runs only with five cylinders. Here are the facts:
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I'm pretty baffled with this one. Electrical problem? Faulty fuel
> injector? Or what?

Probably a bad injector. Place an ohm meter across the leads on each
injector. If one of the readings is wildly off the other 5, it's almost
certain that it's a bad injector. Did you get a Check Engine light? A
failed injector usually triggers the light.

> What I'm wondering:
>
> If the fuel injector is faulty, why the car sometimes works ok for
> dozens of miles? Can it just lock closed somehow and then, suddenly,
> after some shock (a bump on the road for example) open up and start
> working ok?

The injector problem can definitely come and go, but will eventually fail
for good. It will probably cost about $600 in parts (if you use Nissan
injectors, and replace all 6, which I recommend), and another $600 in labor.

This car will run on 5 cylinders without damaging the engine. It's very
well balanced. So if you need some time to get the money together, you can
still drive it. If you've got some mechanical aptitude, this is not a
difficult repair, just time consuming. You'll need a manual and a torque
wrench (don't even try it without both).

How does the fuel injector work after all? What causes the

> fuel injector to inject fuel, some signal from "the box" or is it
> purely mechanical? If the injector uses electricity to open, could
> "the box" be broken this way?
>
> Please, any help is appreciated. The car is in great shape except for
> this and has probably a hundred thousand more miles on road left :)

Whatever the cause, this car is worth fixing. I had a bad injector at about
125K miles, and replaced all 6 (figured I'd be in there anyway). I'm at
168K miles and the car runs fantastic. I expect to get to at least 250K,
maybe 300K. I hate the idea of a car payment.

Bill G
'91 SE Auto
167,939 miles

Reply to this Message

Mika - 19 Aug 2004 17:23 GMT

Hi Bill! Thanks for you reply. Below is some more information.

The model is neither GXE or SE. Those are probably US versions of
Maxima. My manual says "Maxima series J30" and the engine model is
VG30E.

I took a look at the injector wires but I didn't have a suitable tool
to get them loose, they are locked with a metallic "U-ring" or
whatever the correct term is. To get my hands better on the wires I'd
need to get rid of some stuff attached on top of the engine. And I
don't have a garage.. :(

I didn't get a check engine light, not a single time. That's one thing
I'm curious about. It's like the "box" thinks that everything is all
right.

There are two wires going to the injector(there is a small crack in
the protective cap but the wires itself are intact - that's what I can
see through the crack). So I could place an ohm meter there when the
wires are attached but is there a risk that might break something as
the ohm meter causes a small current and voltage to be in place? And
on the other hand, which way the current would go, through the
injector or the other end of those wires (the "box", I assume)? Or is
the resistance of the "box" so high that doing the measurement this
way would result in correct readings?

On the other hand, if I'd measure the voltage over the injector wires
when the cylinder is working and when it is not (=when the engine is
running), I could probably rule out the possibility of faulty "box"?
Although a basic voltage meter probably can't handle the situation as
the voltage rises and drops during each round... But might be worth a
try, at least if I can get a more sophisticated meter somewhere.

> The injector problem can definitely come and go, but will eventually fail
> for good. It will probably cost about $600 in parts (if you use Nissan
> injectors, and replace all 6, which I recommend), and another $600 in labor.

I'm hoping that time would give some solution if nothing else will.
Although I don't like driving around with a "broken" car. Changing all
injectors will cost way more than you said, at least here in Finland.
I got one price for a Nissan fuel injector and that's about 200 euros
(around $250). Labor is some cheaper though. If it is the injector,
I'm probably going to replace all of them as you suggested but
hopefully there are also some non-Nissan injectors available. The best
(and luckily, the only) offer I've so far would be about $2000 for
replacing all the injectors. *sigh*

Br,

Mika

Reply to this Message

Bill G - 25 Aug 2004 05:44 GMT

> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Hi Bill! Thanks for you reply. Below is some more information.

Sorry about the delay replying. I was out of town.

> The model is neither GXE or SE. Those are probably US versions of
> Maxima. My manual says "Maxima series J30" and the engine model is
> VG30E.

It's a GXE. Same engine as my

> I took a look at the injector wires but I didn't have a suitable tool
> to get them loose, they are locked with a metallic "U-ring" or
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
> Mika

Reply to this Message

Bill G - 25 Aug 2004 05:59 GMT

> X-No-Archive: yes
>
> Hi Bill! Thanks for you reply. Below is some more information.

Sorry about the delay replying. I was out of town.

> The model is neither GXE or SE. Those are probably US versions of
> Maxima. My manual says "Maxima series J30" and the engine model is
> VG30E.

You have a GXE. Same engine as my '91 SE.

> I took a look at the injector wires but I didn't have a suitable tool
> to get them loose, they are locked with a metallic "U-ring" or
> whatever the correct term is. To get my hands better on the wires I'd
> need to get rid of some stuff attached on top of the engine. And I
> don't have a garage.. :(

First, you can get to them without removing anything off the top of the
engine. It's a pain in the buttocks to get to the front ones, but they are
reachable.

Second, you can use a small piece of tubing to listen to the injectors. Buy
a 2 foot piece of tubing from an auto parts store (or a short piece of
garden hose) and put one end in your ear, and the other down near the
injectors while the engine is running. You should hear a soft
pfft-pfft-pfft sound if the injector is working correctly. You won't hear
anything from the bad one.

Third, you can use a small flat bladed screwdriver to gently ease back the
C-clip. Be careful, or the clip will fly off. It's not the end of the
world if it does, the connector will stay on without the clip. Put the ohm
meter across the 2 leads (it doesn't matter which way, the reading is the
same). Test the bad one, and a known good one. The bad one's reading will
be wildly different. Don't worry, you won't damage anything using the
meter.

> I'm hoping that time would give some solution if nothing else will.
> Although I don't like driving around with a "broken" car. Changing all
> injectors will cost way more than you said, at least here in Finland.

Oops, didn't look at the header.

> I got one price for a Nissan fuel injector and that's about 200 euros
> (around $250).

Damn, you should have someone here in the US send you 6 of them. I'm sure
shipping would be less than $800 (US).

> Labor is some cheaper though. If it is the injector,
> I'm probably going to replace all of them as you suggested but
> hopefully there are also some non-Nissan injectors available.

For the prices you've quoted, I'd look at an aftermarket injector as well.
My only suggestion is do NOT get rebuilt ones. This component is too
important to go cheap on. I bought a rebuilt water pump once, and had to
replace it 30,000km later.

> The best
> (and luckily, the only) offer I've so far would be about $2000 for
> replacing all the injectors. *sigh*
>
> Br,

What's "Br" mean? It's not a phrase we Americans are familiar with (not
enough exposure to other cultures in our crappy school systems).

Good luck,

Bill G
'91 SE Auto
167,979 miles

Reply to this Message

David Efflandt - 19 Aug 2004 13:37 GMT

> X-No-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> oxygen is bit high so obviously the problem is that the one cylinder
> does not get gas. The plug gives spark ok.

I would suspect a faulty fuel injector, which apparently is a common
problem with Nissan (A co-worker had injector problems with older Z cars).
I forget if I have had to replace 2 or 3 on my 95 SE (one under warranty).
Sometimes it may be intermittant and may not show up as a check engine
light for a month, but other times it may be steady and kick out a code
the same day it happens.

But I do not think injector cleaner would help because Nissan blames fuel
additives (or alcohol), which hopefully they have figured out how to stand
up to in current models.

Signature

David Efflandt - All spam ignored http://www.de-srv.com/

Reply to this Message

NetComputerGuy - 08 Sep 2004 06:38 GMT

Try replacing the pressurized gas cap. Get the correct one - mine said
"pre-vented." Made my 92 SE stop all that rough running immediately. See my
post from today 9/6/2004 at 12:03 AM. called "Mystery Solved."

The cap cost me $5.99 or so. Easy to try this - it made my Max purr again.

Signature

- Jeff in New Orleans
92 SE 160,000

> X-No-archive: yes
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Mika

Reply to this Message