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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Maxima / September 2004moble 1? should I switch
I've been thinking of switching to moble 1 on my next change and keeping up with that. is there a big difference? I've hearrd ya can go 5,000 miles on a change instead of 3,000. and it also protects better. any pros/cons besides it begin mroe expensive? is it worth it? -Slick Nick > I've been thinking of switching to moble 1 on my next change and keeping up > with that. is there a big difference? I've hearrd ya can go 5,000 miles on a > change instead of 3,000. and it also protects better. any pros/cons besides it > begin mroe expensive? is it worth it? > -Slick Nick This is a matter of opinion. Mine is that Nissan engines run pretty much forever no matter what brand of oil you use or how often you change it (within reason), so why spend the extra money? Mine's at 141K currently running on "whatever is on sale" (as long as it's SG rated) dino oil changed every 5K. Still runs like new and doesn't use a drop between changes. I've randomly used Mobil 1 (typically 5-30) for years. I typically don't buy a car new, but look for a clean one with low miles that also has a low price. If I plan to keep the car for a long time I will use Mobil 1. Sold a 1989 Range Rover that I owned for 11 years & had over 325,000 miles. Still ran strong but the aluminum housing behind the water pump was showing severe loss of metal. Sold it for $700 to local guy that said he wanted to use it on his farm for a work vehicle. He lied, & sold it within a few weeks to an unsuspecting guy for $5000. Early this year sold a 1995 Aurora with about 170,000 to an acquaintance. Probably 90 % of the oil used was Mobil 1. Still ran perfectly & used about 1 quart between changes that I would do between 5000 & 6000 miles. With cruise control I could get close to 30 miles per gallon at 60MPH. At 70 to 80 would get about 24. I replaced this car with a 1999 Aurora that will have Mobil 1. We have a 1989 Maxima SE that my house spouse bought new. I finally convinced her to start using Mobil 1. The car now has 230,000 miles & runs strong (except for low rpm problem) that I'm trying to fix. She currently drives a 1998 I30 that will hopefully last us about 10 more years. I also had a 1978 Mercedes that had over 300,000 miles & a local heavy equipment guy is restoring it & has no plans to do anything to the engine. I believe that the typical fuel mileage increase & reduced wear on the engine plus the 'cold winter' ease of starting are three strong reasons to use Mobil 1. Floating around the internet somewhere is a good comparison of virtually all the available oils. I read it several years ago. Several oils had excellent specs but I use Mobil 1 since they were one of the first to make it commercially available. > I've been thinking of switching to moble 1 on my next change and keeping > up with that. is there a big difference? I've hearrd ya can go 5,000 miles > on a change instead of 3,000. and it also protects better. any pros/cons > besides it begin mroe expensive? is it worth it? Depends. I'm not a fan of extended oil intervals, you still have the problems of dirt and acids etc. I think you'd be better off doing dino oil at 3K than synthetic at 5K. For a turbo car or one used in high temp area's synthetic is great.  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > Depends. I'm not a fan of extended oil intervals, you still have the > problems of dirt and acids etc. All my life I've been told to change the oil every 2000-3000 miles, which I've always adhered to. When I used synthetic (Mobil1 or Amsoil), I changed at about twice the miles. But with newer cars and oils I've revised my thinking. My BMW 5281 came from the factory with synthetic and the engine computer tells you when to change it---typically at 15,000 miles. I've gone 8,000 miles since the last change, and the dipstick hasn't moved. So I think there is something to modern engines and oils. Also, while traveling with friends in the UK last summer, I learned that their recommended oil changes for "dino" oil has always been much higher than in the US. At least twice as much. And that they blamed US oil companies for pushing early oil changes. Their little 1.6 liter engines are pushed to the max on autoways, yet they only need an oil change every 7500-9000 miles. Certainly a relatively huge US-style engine, barely stressed at our reduced speeds, would survive with extended oil changes as well. I think you can use sythetic or conventional oil with no real differences, as long as you use the recommended weight. Don't use 10W-30 or (gasp!) 10W-40 in cars that require 5W-20 or you will gum up the rings and wear out the engine prematurely. Matthew 01 Max SE 00 Bmw 528 The interval needs to take into account how it's driven, lots of stop and go? You need to change more often. Mostly hiway? You can get away with more miles between changes. > I think you can use sythetic or conventional oil with no real > differences, as long as you use the recommended weight. Don't use > 10W-30 or (gasp!) 10W-40 in cars that require 5W-20 or you will gum up > the rings and wear out the engine prematurely. ??? Gum up the rings?? Engine oil weight again depends on the climate it's used in. The lighter oils were specified mainly to help MPG and heavier oils don't cause rings to gum up or the engine to wear out early. I do think 10-40 is bad but for reasons other than you describe. For really hot climates I woudn't hesitate to use 20-50 in any car. YMMV :-) SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com It is quite common in Europe to change oil on 10,000 mile intervals... even longer if the car is equipped with an oil monitoring system. And this is manufacturers' recommended intervals. Of course they use synthetic oils, like Mobil1. Europe has a much more extensive oil rating system (well beyond weight and API rating). You select the oil based on it's rating, and then change on intervals according to the rating. The rating tells you thinks like: how long the oil "stays in grade", how long the oil retains a level of corrosion protection and detergent action, etc. (Synthetics, obviously, have "higher" ratings). It's more complicated, easier to screw yourself up pretty badly, but you can pick the level of protection vs. bother you want. And then again... it's also not so common for manufacturers to offer 50Kmile+ powertrain warranties in Europe. Nor are third party extended warranties common. So what is the risk? except to the end-consumer. FWIW, odds are you could safely use a 5000 mile oil change interval even with a good quality modern petroleum-based oils without serious problems, especially within a "normal" lifetime of use. Modern motor oils, even petroleum oils, are far better than people think... in fact, most auto manufacturers allow a 6000 mile or more interval with them. And extended warranties don't squeam about it. BuddyWh >I've been thinking of switching to moble 1 on my next change and keeping up >with that. is there a big difference? I've hearrd ya can go 5,000 miles on a >change instead of 3,000. and it also protects better. any pros/cons besides it >begin mroe expensive? is it worth it? >-Slick Nick >I've been thinking of switching to moble 1 on my next change and keeping up >with that. is there a big difference? I've hearrd ya can go 5,000 miles on a >change instead of 3,000. and it also protects better. any pros/cons besides it >begin mroe expensive? is it worth it? >-Slick Nick I just had this discussion the other week while getting my oil changed - due to a bad sending unit. ($35 including parts and labor.) The mechanic, whom I trust for various reasons, suggested I keep my money and run with dino oil for these reasons. I'll give you his and let you make your own decision: 1. The manufacturer recommended dino oil, so why change? 2. Dino oil is cheaper than synthetic and should be changed at 3K to 5K miles. 3. Changing oil at 3K to 5K miles also changes the filter and any sh.t accumulated in the oil, regardless of whether or not it has broken down. 4. In his experience, he's seen fewer engine issues with people running dino oil than with those running synth oil. 5. I drive mostly freeways, and don't overheat much. There's less breakdown and can reliably go 5K miles on the dino oil. I could probably go more but see # 3. kai kai at 3gproductions dot com "friends don't let friends use windows xp" wht is dyno oil? I usuall use a regular 5w-30 oil (either pansoil or valvoiline) -Slick Nick >wht is dyno oil? I usuall use a regular 5w-30 oil (either pansoil or >valvoiline) >-Slick Nick "dino oil" is standard oil - so called because it comes from ancient plant and animal life. Whether or not it acually contains dinosaur properties is up to you. > I've been thinking of switching to moble 1 on my next change and keeping up > with that. is there a big difference? I've hearrd ya can go 5,000 miles on a > change instead of 3,000. and it also protects better. any pros/cons besides it > begin mroe expensive? is it worth it? > -Slick Nick I've been using it in my 97 SE since 65k (at 123k now). Do I think it makes a difference? Can't tell. I always change at 3k - the age of oil is a separate issue from the synthetic vs. dino. Basically, changing at 3k ensures clean oil - just because synthetic can last longer doesn't mean much to me. The only reason I'm running the Mobil 1 is because I also have a turbocharged RX-7 which I prefer to feed synthetic, and it's simply easier to keep stock of one oil for both cars. If I bought a newer car which specified longer oil change intervals, I'd consider it. But I know the filters and oil system in my Maxima is designed for 3k changes so that's what I'm doing now. Dave > If I bought a newer car which specified longer oil change intervals, I'd > consider it. But I know the filters and oil system in my Maxima is designed > for 3k changes so that's what I'm doing now. I'm curious if that is what your Owner's Manual says. AFAIK my '01 MaxSE manual recommends 7500 miles between oil/filter changes. Matthew > > If I bought a newer car which specified longer oil change intervals, I'd > > consider it. But I know the filters and oil system in my Maxima is designed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Matthew After I wrote that I had to think whether it was true in fact. According to alldatadiy (which is reprints of the mfrs data, and doesn't involve a walk to my car to get the manual), it's every 3750 miles for a new oil & filter in the Severe Service table, or 7500 miles for oil & filter on the Normal Service table. I know because of the mixed driving and weather extremes in Pennsylvania that Severe Service is most appropriate. I may just compromise and change every 5k. Dave >I know because of the mixed driving and weather extremes in Pennsylvania >that Severe Service is most appropriate. I may just compromise and change >every 5k. Having lived here for a year now, I just can't consider Pennsylvania's weather exactly extreme. No where near 115 of Arizona... and although I'm sure it gets colder in the west than here near Philadelphia, still no where near -60 like Minnesota. And most important, no blowing dust storms like most anywhere in the desert southwest. All in all, not as extreme as you might think... IMHO, quite temperate by comparison! I think you may find that synthetics in general, and Mobil1 in particular, have an extra measure of oil additives... the ant-corrosives and detergents and such... because they are specifically formulated with extended drain intervals in mind. Of course, oil testing is still a very good idea if trying to push to the 20K mile intervals many suggest. BuddyWh > >I know because of the mixed driving and weather extremes in Pennsylvania > >that Severe Service is most appropriate. I may just compromise and change > >every 5k. > > Having lived here for a year now, I just can't consider Pennsylvania's > weather exactly extreme. It's not extreme, but it's not highway granny driving in southern california. I've also heard that the severe service chart applies to most drivers. (Whether that's the opinion of service shops generating extra business, that's possible...) Dave >> >I know because of the mixed driving and weather extremes in Pennsylvania >> >that Severe Service is most appropriate. I may just compromise and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > california. I've also heard that the severe service chart applies to most > drivers. It does. They have the other chart to appease people shopping cars by the maintanace schedule. If the salemane said "You have to change the oil every 3500", perspective owners would say "Well the honda only needs the oil changed every 7500 so lets go buy that one." and the manufacturers know it. It like the thing in the owners manual saying you -can- use regular gas. You shouldn't use it but they have to make the car so you -can- or cheapskates wouldn't buy them. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > It does. They have the other chart to appease people shopping cars by the > maintanace schedule. If the salemane said "You have to change the oil every > 3500", perspective owners would say "Well the honda only needs the oil > changed every 7500 so lets go buy that one." and the manufacturers know it. This doesn't make sense to me. The standard Honda Accord has a 4 cylinder engine that makes as much power per liter as a Maxima (is equally stressed), can INDEED go 7500 miles on an oil change, and lives a long life. And yet you are saying that the maintenance schedule is wrong. Both the Accord and a Maxima need about the same HP to cruise at any given speed, so the Maxima with its larger displacement would presumably be less stressed, so it would seem that 7500 miles/change would be more than sufficient for a Maxima. If you factor in the shorter stroke of the Maxima 3.0, bigger bearings, and reduced RPM/mile it would seem that the Maxima would last far longer than a Honda while on the same diet of oil. Yet both cars last a damn long time regardless of whether the oil is changed at 3000, 3500, 5000, or even 7500 miles. Like I said earlier, engines and oils are getting extremely good. Matthew 01 Max SE >> It does. They have the other chart to appease people shopping cars by the >> maintanace schedule. If the salemane said "You have to change the oil [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > equally stressed), can INDEED go 7500 miles on an oil change, and > lives a long life. Yep and I've rebult trashed engines that were sludged up from doing this with stop and go driving w/7500 intervals from people being cheap. Read the manual and decide if you are the extreme service or not. I'm not saying the manual is wrong, I'm saying most people need to follow the extreme service intervals, unless they do mostly hyway driving with little stop and go in between. Like I said people rationalize using cheap regular gas in their performance engines (10:1 compression and using regular gas?), these same people rationalize going 7500+ on oil changes. It's not about engine wear, it's about sludge buldup and passage plugging. Given what a rebuild costs on modern cars, are you willing to take the risk and not cry about it when a camshaft snaps off in the head from being oil starved? $30,000 car with a $10,000 + engine and you want to save the $20-$30 an oil change costs? Be my guest! Sounds like cheap insurance to me. I sure make a LOT more money rebuilding engines than I do changing oil. :-) SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>>It does. They have the other chart to appease people shopping cars by the >>>maintanace schedule. If the salemane said "You have to change the oil [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > change costs? Be my guest! Sounds like cheap insurance to me. I sure make a > LOT more money rebuilding engines than I do changing oil. :-) The thing with sludge buildup is that it takes a very long time to takes its toll on the car. By the time that camshaft fails, the car will probably be on its 3rd owner. It's like smoking: it'll kill you, but do it very very very slowly, so people don't take it as seriously. CD Steve in your opinion would going 5000 miles on Mobile 1 synthetic in California traffice be a bad idea? > >>>It does. They have the other chart to appease people shopping cars by the > >>>maintanace schedule. If the salemane said "You have to change the oil [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > CD > Steve in your opinion would going 5000 miles on Mobile 1 synthetic in > California traffice be a bad idea? It really becomes a how many hours does it run thing. 5000 miles when you average 10-15MPH isn't the same as 5000 miles when you average 35-50MPH. We had a customer that changed her oil EVERY 3000-4000 miles regularly and at 100K had to pull the pan, replace the rod bearings and clean out all the sludge. Turns out she sat for a couple of hours everyday in traffic with the A/C on etc. So really it was like 8000+ miles by the hours it was run. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >would going 5000 miles on Mobile 1 synthetic in >California traffice be a bad idea? You might be interested in the results of an Air Force study I recently saw. They started an oil test program for about 800 vehicles in their fleet at Hickam AFB, Hawaii and Eileson AFB in Alaska. Their concern was making a well-informed decision about oil change intervals for economic and environental concerns (reducing their waste stream volume). This study results supported safely doubling, even tripling, drain intervals before tested oil showed appreciable signs of loss of protection. I'm not certain of intervals at the outset, but they are driven as much by "time" as "mileage" variables and you can bet they were as closely consistent with manufacturer recommendations as possible to maintain warranty coverage at lowest operating expenses. I think this is pretty important: most AF vehicles won't accumulate a lot of miles. Instead, they spend large numbers of hours traveling fairly slowly, idling a lot and include frequent start-ups and shut downs. This is about as extreme of a service as you are likely to find, IMO. Also, the Air Force buys their POL (petroleum, oils and lubricants) in bulk, to a specification. There is no particular attention paid to brand... whoever is cheapest... delivered... and meets their spec, gets the order. By far most of these vehicles are the same "off-the-shelf" vehicles we buy... nothing special... not even "militarized". Last: since the Air Force isn't interested in maintaining an image, I don't imagine they "mass" upgrade their fleets on a calendar schedule as do commercial concerns. I would imagine they excess vehicles largely on the economics of total vehicle life cycle costs. That would make them just as interested in reducing unscheduled maintenance costs (repairs) as preventive maintenance costs (oil changes). This is consistent with my experience during my 7 years in the Air Force... my shop had a 10 year old pickup assigne that was only excessed because it had a 3-speed on column shifter! (considered unsafe as you had to take a hand off the wheel to shift). BuddyW >>would going 5000 miles on Mobile 1 synthetic in >>California traffice be a bad idea? > > You might be interested in the results of an Air Force study I > recently saw. And we all know how efficient the federal goverment is.... SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >And we all know how efficient the federal goverment is.... Why don't you tell us? I'm sure you're an expert.... >>And we all know how efficient the federal goverment is.... > > Why don't you tell us? I'm sure you're an expert.... I just as soon -not- follow the advice from a group who will spend $500 for a toilet seat. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > I just as soon -not- follow the advice from a group who will spend $500 >for a toilet seat. Oh, but you do. All the time. You're just a tad to near sited to see it, I suppose. Most, if not every, component in an automobile owes it's engineering and design heritage to military standards and specifications. One guess who is responsible for development of them; the clue is in the name. BuddyWh |
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