stainless brake lines.....steve or nisstech Help...

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Bitsbucket - 22 Sep 2004 16:16 GMT

Hi All
I have a 97 Max, has 138K on the clock, I just bought new rotors and pads,
am considering rebuilt calipers, and wonder if with this many miles on the
clock should I replace the rubber brake lines with Stainless Steel. I can
get a set for all 4 corners of the car off E-bay for 80 bucks.....will this
help reduce pedal travel as advertised? or is it a waste of money.
All input appreciated.
Thanks
2Maximas!

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Jon Smith - 23 Sep 2004 02:33 GMT

Stainless brake lines reduce pedal travel and they do work great. $80
bucks is reasonable as courtesynissan.com wants about twice that. Just
remember that all of the banjo bolts and washers have to be replaced to
be sure of a good seal. Also, use Ford High Performance Brake Fluid
when you bleed the brakes. Start at the passenger rear side and then do
the driver's rear and then go to the passenger front and then the
driver's side front. Never use synthetic fluid in a Nissan with ABS...
the Ford High Performance Brake Fluid is about $5 a pint from the
dealer and it has the highest poiling point of any DOT3 fluid on the
market.

> Hi All
> I have a 97 Max, has 138K on the clock, I just bought new rotors and pads,
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 9/18/2004

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Steve T - 23 Sep 2004 04:53 GMT

> Hi All
> I have a 97 Max, has 138K on the clock, I just bought new rotors and pads,
> am considering rebuilt calipers, and wonder if with this many miles on the
> clock should I replace the rubber brake lines with Stainless Steel.

Why, do the OE ones look bad? They ussually last aprox 20 years.

> I can
> get a set for all 4 corners of the car off E-bay for 80 bucks.....will
> this help reduce pedal travel as advertised?

No. Not enough you could ever -measure-. People claim they "feel better"
etc, I've never experienced this when I've installed them on someone's car.
Then again I had no vested interest in them either!

> or is it a waste of money.

Waste of money IMHO. If they aren't DOT approved lines, they can be
-dangerous- to use on a street car. We won't sell these "race lines"
because of the liability. Seen them fail prematurely because they were
designed to use on a race car with very limited wheel travel and low miles
per year. I mean really, how many miles a year do most race cars see? And
most race tracks don't have pot holes etc.

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Steve

http://www.atlantaracing.com

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Bitsbucket - 23 Sep 2004 17:00 GMT

Hi Steve,
I just have what I consider to be pedal travel that is SLIGHTLY excessive,
and since I am going to do the rotors and pads, just wondered if maybe I
should do them (brake lines, the ones from the caliper to the main hardline)
too. I am debating on whether to put calipers on the front too.......with
that many miles on the clock, I just didn't know what I should do along with
the rotors and pads, ( I am going to bleed all the old brake fluid out and
replace it with fresh too, that is why I was thinking calipers, it never
fails that the bleeders snap off from non use and then I end up replacing
the cal;ipers anyway) what do you think? I just want to do this one time,
while I have it apart, I am planning on springs and struts in the near
future too, should I wait to do the brakes when I do that? In other words I
just want to tear it down one time, not do it bit by bit...
Thanks for your help,
John
PS drove a 99 Z-28 Chevy yesterday, low miles, in good shape, damn it makes
me appreciate my Maxima, no my Maxima is not as quick, but the build quality
is heads and tails better than the chevy. Little things like the turn
signal stalk, it feels cheap in the chevy.... I'd like to have one of those
LT1 cars, they are QUICK! but the sacrifice in build quality is just not
worth it, at least to me.....(Dream car: 99 Maxima, RWD, with an LT1 engine,
6 speed manual....yes I know, it's impossible, well at least on MY budget!)

> > Hi All
> > I have a 97 Max, has 138K on the clock, I just bought new rotors and pads,
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> per year. I mean really, how many miles a year do most race cars see? And
> most race tracks don't have pot holes etc.

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David - 24 Sep 2004 06:00 GMT

> Waste of money IMHO. If they aren't DOT approved lines, they can be
> -dangerous- to use on a street car.

So if they're DOT approved, they're OK then? Or are you saying that
braided hoses in general fail sooner than the other kind?

Brake upgrades that make sense to me (in order):
DOT 5.1 fluid (to reduce boiling-fluid fade).
Slotted rotors (to reduce pad-smoking, and fade from gas buildup).
Aftermarket pads (if there is any need).

If they help, it would be convenient to install the brake hoses when changing the fluid.
But if they don't help...

What's your take on brake upgrades?

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Steve T - 25 Sep 2004 07:01 GMT

>> Waste of money IMHO. If they aren't DOT approved lines, they can be
>> -dangerous- to use on a street car.
>
> So if they're DOT approved, they're OK then?

Should be. They will have plastic or metal "guides" that support the braided
hose where it attaches to the fixed ends.

> Or are you saying that
> braided hoses in general fail sooner than the other kind?

They seem to fail sooner from what I've seen. Factory hoses last aprox 20
years from my experience. Do NOT use raybestos hoses. Heard reports of
failures in a -VERY- short periods of time, some as short as 2-3 weeks.

> Brake upgrades that make sense to me (in order):
> DOT 5.1 fluid (to reduce boiling-fluid fade).
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> What's your take on brake upgrades?

Same you yours, although I think I'd move better pads above slotting the
rotors. Many times what people feel as "spongy" brakes (and why they think
the braided hoses fixed this) is old water saturated fluid. They install
new/better fluid at the same time as the hoses and think the hoses are what
did it.

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Steve

http://www.atlantaracing.com

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David - 25 Sep 2004 21:34 GMT

> Same you yours, although I think I'd move better pads above slotting the
> rotors.

Thanks. I have no experience with upgrading brakes. I was guessing the
slotted rotors would reduce the chance of smoking the pads more than
any other upgrade. Just a guess though.

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Pat@Boston.Harbor - 24 Oct 2004 04:17 GMT

>Brake upgrades that make sense to me (in order):
> DOT 5.1 fluid (to reduce boiling-fluid fade).
> Slotted rotors (to reduce pad-smoking, and fade from gas buildup).
> Aftermarket pads (if there is any need).

From what I've seen DOT5 fluid is not to be used on street cars, it is
a different formulation that won't hurt paint but absorbs a lot of
water. Best use os for show cars.

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Steve T - 24 Oct 2004 20:36 GMT

>>Brake upgrades that make sense to me (in order):
>> DOT 5.1 fluid (to reduce boiling-fluid fade).
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> a different formulation that won't hurt paint but absorbs a lot of
> water. Best use os for show cars.

If you're talking about silicone fluid, I hate that stuff, makes the pedal
spongy and from what I've seen boils easier that regular fluid. They do
have "racing fluid" (ATE makes some, it's blue..) that boils higher but
does absorb water even faster than normal fluid.

If you aren't boiling the regular fluid, there is -no reason- to use
anything else. I think the single most important thing to brake performance
on the newer cars is the choice of brake pads and change the fluid at least
every 2 years or so.

The whole drilling/slotting rotors for "gas buildup" was true with the pads
used MANY years ago. The new pads don't have this problem yet people want
to believe this is still true to rationalize their drilled/slotted rotors.

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Steve

http://www.atlantaracing.com

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David - 25 Oct 2004 16:16 GMT

> >Brake upgrades that make sense to me (in order):
> > DOT 5.1 fluid (to reduce boiling-fluid fade).
> > Slotted rotors (to reduce pad-smoking, and fade from gas buildup).
> > Aftermarket pads (if there is any need).
>
> From what I've seen DOT5 fluid is not to be used on street cars,

DOT 5.1 is different from DOT 5.

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Codifus - 23 Sep 2004 17:50 GMT

Any car no matter how old can benefit from stainless steel brakelines.
Make sure they are DOT approved. As for reducing pedal travel, I've had
a set of SS brakelines on my 98 Max SE, same as your car . . . just
about. It wasn't so much pedal travel that was reduced, but more of
pedal firmness and feel that was enhanced. Definitely worth it as I
could modulate brake pressure with much better precision.

HTH

CD

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Bitsbucket - 24 Sep 2004 01:55 GMT

That is what I was talking about really, just a better "feel" on the brakes.
I can get a set for all 4 corners for what the local parts house (read....
AutoZone, Advance Auto Parts etc.) for what for factory replacements,
actually LESS than factory replacements, so I was wondering if they were
worth replacing.....seems you have answered that with your statement. I
believe while I am going thru the trouble to replace all that stuff, and
bleed the brakes, it's probably worth getting a higher grade part, over
factory, especially since they are LESS money!
Thanks again,
2Maximas....(John) (I own 2, a 96 SE and a 97 SE CLONE, you know, all the SE
parts added to a GXE...)

> > Hi All
> > I have a 97 Max, has 138K on the clock, I just bought new rotors and pads,
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> CD

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Steve T - 24 Sep 2004 05:31 GMT

> I believe while I am going thru the trouble to replace all that
> stuff, and bleed the brakes, it's probably worth getting a higher grade
> part, over factory, especially since they are LESS money!

So really you were just looking for someone who shared your opinion?

I'm sure you'll feel the difference -after- you've spent the money for this
"upgrade". :-/

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Steve

http://www.atlantaracing.com

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Bitsbucket - 25 Sep 2004 21:01 GMT

Steve,
What is that comment for?
They cost less, and I do not see how they can hurt, I checked the prices on
factory replacements and they are higher, I plan to keep the car a long
while and no I'm not looking for someone who shares my opinion, I am looking
FOR opinions.....yours happened to be different from the other guy, and he's
had a positive experience with them, so I am going to give them some
consideration. Fair enough? I have not ordered them yet. Just getting
opinions on them.

I also THINK that the ones on my car feel soft to the touch, (if I squeeze
it) is that the way they are supposed to feel? Let me know..
I have some experience with physics, working in a physical/dimensional
calibration lab at Lockheed Martin, as a Sr.calibration tech for 10 years.
(Metrology) (and you, being a racing mechanic, I am sure you have
expertise in this area too) and one thing we both know for sure is that
liquid will not compress, therefore if it has a place to go, like to expand
its container, (in this case the container being the soft line to the
caliper), do you not think it would expand it, IF POSSIBLE? Seems to me
that it would, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the lines FEEL soft, would
they not respond to pressure by expanding? Tell me also, what does the
center of the factory flexible line consist of? Do the stainless lines have
the same "center" but just wrapped in stainless for looks, as opposed to
wrapped in rubber? or does the stainless steel actually act to resist
expansion better. I have never cut either one in half so I have no idea how
they are constructed. Please enlighten me.
Thanks
John

>> I believe while I am going thru the trouble to replace all that
>> stuff, and bleed the brakes, it's probably worth getting a higher grade
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> this
> "upgrade". :-/

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