Transmission noise after left drive axle CV boot replacement

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George - 02 Dec 2007 05:36 GMT

I replaced the left-side outer CV boot the same way I have seen it done
to my right-side outer CV boot. That is: on the car, by removing the
knuckle and hitting the back of the outer joint to separate it without
removing the whole axle. This gives access for putting a new boot on. I
had a mechanic do the right-side and he did it in accordance with this
same method. I have seen this method suggested by people at maxima.org
and freshalloy.com. I tried it myself tonight. It was no sweat to remove
the knuckle and knock the outer joint in two for the boot replacement
but then I had a problem.

After putting it all back together, and everything did seem fine (the
outer CV joint 'clicked' together and the axle would not pull out of the
tranny under hand pressure) I started the car for a test drive.

Before I could get under way, I noticed a metallic rubbing sound coming
from the transmission while still in neutral (I have a 5-speed manual.)
When the clutch is *in* I don't get the sound, but when it is *out*
(engaged) I get it quite loudly. Don't forget, this is all while in
neutral! I never shifted into first, and did not move the car.

However, I did the CV job while the tranny was in first (to prevent
movement).

Any ideas on what I did wrong? I an afraid to drive it in this condition
and I have all week to think about it until next Saturday when I have
time to work on it again.

Did I hit the axle's wheel-end too hard while reassembling the outer CV
joint and forced the axle too hard into the tranny and damaged
something? Would removing the axle completely from the tranny and
reinstalling it help at all? Should I have done the job in neutral
instead of first gear when doing the work?

Why is there a noise at all when in neutral? It's not like the axle is
spinning at all. And why noisy only with the clutch *out* and not while
pressed *in*? Neutral is neutral and clutch position shouldn't matter in
neutral, should it?

Thanks for reading this. I hope someone has an idea in case I have to
take it to my mechanic. I would like to know if I am looking at an
expensive transmission job or not.

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2001 Maxima 5-speed transmission 90,000 miles
Stock

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David Geesaman - 04 Dec 2007 03:37 GMT

> Before I could get under way, I noticed a metallic rubbing sound coming
> from the transmission while still in neutral (I have a 5-speed manual.)
> When the clutch is *in* I don't get the sound, but when it is *out*
> (engaged) I get it quite loudly. Don't forget, this is all while in
> neutral! I never shifted into first, and did not move the car.

These sounds are typical of a bad input shaft bearing. It typically
doesn't start happening all at once, and usually most when the tranny is
cold. When in neutral, clutch out, the input shaft and a couple of
gears are the only things turning.

Could it be that you turned off the radio and just started to notice it?

Did you happen to start the car while the front end was lifted? Did you
drain any tranny oil and not replace it?

> Why is there a noise at all when in neutral? It's not like the axle is
> spinning at all. And why noisy only with the clutch *out* and not while
> pressed *in*? Neutral is neutral and clutch position shouldn't matter in
> neutral, should it?

If you put the clutch in, the input shaft disengages from the engine and
coasts to a stop and the noise goes away. When you drive, the load from
the meshing gears pushes the bearings tight and they don't tend to be as
noisy.

I'm not sure what in your procedure would have caused input shaft
problems, but your symptoms are solidly pointed towards bad input shaft
bearings.

Dave

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Codifus - 04 Dec 2007 12:44 GMT

>> Before I could get under way, I noticed a metallic rubbing sound
>> coming from the transmission while still in neutral (I have a 5-speed
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> Dave

I would also re-emphasize the tranny oil. Surely some fell out when you
removed the axle. Did you make sure to refill?

CD

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George - 05 Dec 2007 00:26 GMT

> >> Before I could get under way, I noticed a metallic rubbing sound
> >> coming from the transmission while still in neutral (I have a 5-speed
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> >
> > Could it be that you turned off the radio and just started to notice it?

No, the sound started after my work. I am highly tuned-in to expensive
noises. I wonder if is possible to damage that bearing doing a drive
axle R&R?

> > Did you happen to start the car while the front end was lifted? Did you
> > drain any tranny oil and not replace it?

Did not start the car until I was done and the car was back on the
ground. Did not drain the tranny because I was not trying to remove the
axle. If it slipped out it was only because of a ham-fisted accident on
my part disassembling and reassembling the CV joint on-car.

> > If you put the clutch in, the input shaft disengages from the engine and
> > coasts to a stop and the noise goes away. When you drive, the load from
> > the meshing gears pushes the bearings tight and they don't tend to be as
> > noisy.

Sounds obvious when put that way! I have rebuilt engines, but
transmission internals were never my area of expertise, least of all
manual transmissions.

> > I'm not sure what in your procedure would have caused input shaft
> > problems, but your symptoms are solidly pointed towards bad input shaft
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I would also re-emphasize the tranny oil. Surely some fell out when you
> removed the axle. Did you make sure to refill?

No oil leaked out, looked under the car every day now and saw nothing.
In fairness, I believe from other sources on the internet that draining
the transmission is not a requirement for axle R&R (at least on a
5-speed) so it's possible fluid doesn't come out. I know, it sounds
strange to me, too.

I haven't done anything to the car since Saturday night. Have an idea...

I tried to drive the car just now, but I let the clutch out in drive and
reverse and got the same noise as before. Furthermore THE CAR DIDN'T
MOVE. Couldn't go. However the speedometer showed I was moving after I
let the clutch out in gear! I tried up to about 10MPH.

I guess now that the axle must be not engaged into the transmission at
all and I must have an open diff. Saturday I am going to try to remove
and reinstall that axle, see what happens. I really messed up the
threads for the axle nut by hammering and the CV joint was kind of ugly
and greaseless so I'll just get a new axle (they are under $100) and try
again.

I have scoured the internet and cannot get good info on this problem.
Axle removals/installs are common but not my exact problem.

I will post back this weekend if it doesn't snow and I can work on the
car. I will check this NG daily. Thanks for the input!

BTW, I cannot see the post from David Geesman, only the part quoted by
Codifus. Don't have any explanation for that unless David's posts don't
get to Verizon's news server.

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cmdrdata - 05 Dec 2007 18:44 GMT

George, I am bout to do the boot replacement myself using a totally
different procedure (I bought a set of Millennium CV-joint boot that is
supposedly very stretchable that it can be slipped over the outer joint
without taking the joint apart! However, I am interested to hear if you
have trouble removing the LEFT joint. When I tried to replace my 2000 Max
right CV assembly, I had trouble accessing the center bearing mount
bracket because of clearance accessing the two bolts attached to the
engine. I ended up putting everything back and paid a mechanic to do it.

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George - 06 Dec 2007 23:05 GMT

In article
<b8ecf2f4b2cfc5f751075edcac4d7c34@localhost.talkaboutautos.com>,

> George, I am bout to do the boot replacement myself using a totally
> different procedure (I bought a set of Millennium CV-joint boot that is
> supposedly very stretchable that it can be slipped over the outer joint
> without taking the joint apart!

That is some stretch! The small end opening is about an inch wide and
must stretch over the big CV end at about three inches! If it goes well
your job is easy once you access the axle end. I used a boot kit from
Nissan which came with the metal bands and grease: 5 oz of ZF100. I
suggest that you have a "real" boot kit on hand (you can always return
it) in case the millennium boot doesn't work as advertised. If it does
work please post your experience with it!

> However, I am interested to hear if you
> have trouble removing the LEFT joint.

I had no trouble during disassembly of left outer joint on car. I ended
up disconnecting the tie-rod and strut and removing the ABS sensor and
disconnecting the brake caliper clip from the strut, leaving the
ball-joint completely alone and the caliper on the disc. Then there was
plenty of clearance to slide the axle out of the knuckle. There are
other methods talked about around the 'net.

If you intend to remove the steering knuckle completely, of course the
caliper and ball joint have to be removed.

However, I must have screwed my current project up in a bizarre way,
possibly by hitting the back of the outer joint to hard and pulling the
axle out of the tranny by accident, and I didn't get it in right or not
at all. This is to be corrected this weekend, weather permitting.

> When I tried to replace my 2000 Max
> right CV assembly, I had trouble accessing the center bearing mount
> bracket because of clearance accessing the two bolts attached to the
> engine. I ended up putting everything back and paid a mechanic to do it.

Same happened to me trying to do the passenger side 2 years ago. I
actually got the bolts out but could not remove the axle nut! I gave up
and took it to a mechanic. The mechanic I went to showed me how change
the passenger side without involving the center bearing at all (which is
only present on the passenger side anyway). He did not remove the axle
which the shop manual calls for, but disassembled the right outer CV
joint on-car to do the boot replacement.

The procedure, though, should work on either the driver *and* passenger
side on a Maxima, if the only CV joint you are concerned with is the
outer one. BTW, I have *seen* this done to both sides since, on the
Maxima and to other cars, so I know that it is possible.

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George - 20 Dec 2007 21:02 GMT

Final disposition: fixed.

It turns out that I did not reassemble the outer CV joint correctly,
which increased its overall length. When I put the knuckle back
together, the drive axle was pushing into the transmission with a lot of
tension. Possibly straining against the input shaft somehow? I'll leave
the why to the trans experts.

Anyway, the outer CV wasn't even engaging. This is why the car would not
move, the inner shaft was turning but the outer was not.

For anyone contemplating doing a CV boot replacement, I would just buy a
new axle and go for it. My replacement axle was rebuilt from *all new
parts* (not reground) and was only about $110 from
nissanpartswholesale.com. Replacing just one boot for $50+ doesn't make
good sense, it takes just as long and it gets really messy packing the
grease in there. BTW the Nissan stealership wanted $600 for the same
axle!

Replacing the axle seal in the transmission hole is pretty easy and
could be done at the same time, and the 36mm axle nut socket makes the
perfect seal driver. I went ahead and did it, it costs $7.

NOTE: various sources on the 'net give different information on how much
tranny fluid comes out after pulling the shaft out of the transmission.
Well, it was 2 quarts for me. According the shop manual the
open-differential transmission (RS5F50A) holds 4.5 to 4.8 liters of API
GL-4, Viscosity SAE 75W-90. So less than half my oil came out, which I
caught in a milk jug and poured back in after everything was back
together. I used a squirt water bottle but a flexible neck funnel would
have been better.

Thanks for the input!

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Oil is always 15 years from running out, the oceans are always 10 years away
from rising 10 feet, and the internet always has only 3 years left before it
runs out of capacity. Color me skeptical.

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