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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Maxima / March 2004platinum plugs
Do they need to be replaced at 60k or at 100k? I thought they last for 100k miles but the dealer is saying to change at 60k. Does anyone know? I have a 2000 Maxima SE. > Do they need to be replaced at 60k or at 100k? I thought they last for 100k > miles but the dealer is saying to change at 60k. Does anyone know? > > I have a 2000 Maxima SE. according to the mechanics in 2 Nissan dealers in twin cities, the plugs are too hard to remove at 100k. they freeze up. > > Do they need to be replaced at 60k or at 100k? I thought they last for > 100k [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > are too hard to remove at 100k. > they freeze up. True for all cars, not just Nissan. There's going to be an epidemic of stuck plugs if people use the 100,000 mile recommendation. At the very least, break them loose at 60K and reseat them. Even better to pull them out, and put on some anti-seize compound & reuse. The plugs are pretty expensive to just throw them away. JM >> > Do they need to be replaced at 60k or at 100k? I thought they last for >> 100k [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > At the very least, break them loose at 60K and reseat them. Even > better to pull them out, and put on some anti-seize compound & reuse. NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs.  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs. wow... any indication as to why? sounds like I should try to avoid NGK plugs... rather use something else than take chances on stripping out the heads... BuddyWh >>NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs. > > wow... any indication as to why? It's the plating they use and the advanced thread rolling technique used to make them. The threads are smooth instead of sharp like cut threads have. The cut threads and/or unplated plugs are the kind that need antiseize to keep them from getting stuck. > sounds like I should try to avoid NGK plugs... rather use something > else than take chances on stripping out the heads... ??? How many heads have you seen stripped from using NGK plugs? SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>>NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs. >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >??? How many heads have you seen stripped from using NGK plugs? Did I say I've seen any??? You stated that NGK says do NOT (my emphasis) use anti-seize. Now it sounds more like it's optional. I'll choose antiseize... I stripped two sparkplug holes in aluminum heads before I learned the lesson. BuddyWh >>>>NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs. >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > BuddyWh Do you use a TQ wrench when tightening down the park plugs? The spec for the 98 Maxima is 16-22 ft/lbs. Had I not used a TQ wrench I'm pretty sure I would have over-tightend my plugs by quite a bit, b/c 16-22 ft/lbs ain't much TQ at all, really. Also, another thing I do when I'm initially threading in a plug is to turn the plug anti-clockwise until I feel the plug seat itself into the threads, then I resume the normal procedure of tightening them down. CD > You stated that NGK says do NOT (my emphasis) use anti-seize. Now it > sounds more like it's optional. No, they said in some techincal literature I read they recomend -not- using antiseize and explained why. Of course you can ignore their recomendations if you think you know more about sparkplug design than they do! :-) SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> You stated that NGK says do NOT (my emphasis) use anti-seize. Now it >> sounds more like it's optional. > >No, they said in some techincal literature I read they recomend -not- using >antiseize and explained why. Of course you can ignore their recomendations >if you think you know more about sparkplug design than they do! :-) A recommendation is still a recommendation... it is not a requirement... it is given assuming the receiver knows enough to apply it wisely. Do you even know what anti-seize does? >>> You stated that NGK says do NOT (my emphasis) use anti-seize. Now it >>> sounds more like it's optional. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > A recommendation is still a recommendation... it is not a > requirement... Like I said if you know more about this than they do, more power to ya. > Do you even know what anti-seize does? Uh, pretty self explainitory doncha think?. Do you know what's in it? It's a pretty abrasive material and with repeated use can -cause- thread wear on soft materials, like aluminum heads. This is why NGK recomends not to use it. IMHO it should never be used unless it's specified such as on O2 sensor threads. YMMV SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>>> You stated that NGK says do NOT (my emphasis) use anti-seize. Now it >>>> sounds more like it's optional. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Like I said if you know more about this than they do, more power to ya. I guess 20 years engineering experience counts for something. >> Do you even know what anti-seize does? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >why NGK recomends not to use it. IMHO it should never be used unless it's >specified such as on O2 sensor threads. YMMV Interesting.... I'd like to see this NGK 'technical' document. >>Like I said if you know more about this than they do, more power to ya. > > I guess 20 years engineering experience counts for something. So we can assume by this statement you've designed spark plugs? >>This is >>why NGK recomends not to use it. > Interesting.... I'd like to see this NGK 'technical' document. I'll forward it to you later this week. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>>Like I said if you know more about this than they do, more power to ya. >> >> I guess 20 years engineering experience counts for something. > >So we can assume by this statement you've designed spark plugs? You may assume this...in which case you would be wrong. But my experience helps to critically read technical documents better than most. >>>This is >>>why NGK recomends not to use it. > >> Interesting.... I'd like to see this NGK 'technical' document. > >I'll forward it to you later this week. Which is what I'm interested in. BuddyWh The "special plating" is not unique to NGK; others also use a coating to prevent seizing. Unfortunately, this plating is good for one-time use. If you break the plug loose, and reseat it for another 40,000+ miles, it may stick. I understand anti-seize compound to be ultrafine aluminum suspended in a petroleum base which will burn off. What's not to conduct? I used anti-seize at 67,000 miles. Car now has 94,500. No operational change and I KNOW the plugs would come out if I want them to. That's good enough for me. JM > I understand anti-seize compound to be ultrafine aluminum suspended in > a petroleum base which will burn off. What's not to conduct? If indeed the petroleum base "burns off" at water-cooled head temperatures (this has not been my experience), I would assume that the aluminum dust would now be subject to oxidation. Aluminum oxide is in fact an insulator. It is an amorphous form of sapphire, which is hard and does not conduct electricity. You can test it yourself with an ohmmeter and the surface of an old screen door that's been exposed to the elements for years. Now it might seem that the reason that anti-sieze limits electrolysis is due to the insulation properties---you can't have electrolysis without conduction. Has anyone tried measuring the resistance of a glop of anti-sieze? More important--anything that limits current flow would be bad for a spark plug. Matthew 2k1 max se As the sparkplug is tightend, the threads will displace anti-seize and there will be metal to metal contact along the thread face that is gas tight, assuring good electrical contact so long as the plug doesn't loosen. I think you will find the antiseize's primary function is to seal off the small gaps between the roots and peaks of the threads. Exhaust gasses leach into this gap, leaving corrosive deposits that either start corrosion or harden under high temp and pressures. It's all well and good that NGK plates their sparkplugs... but there is no such plating on the aluminum head so corrosion can start if there is even a tiny pinhole discontinuity in the plating of the threads. That is very easy to see happening on the peaks of the threads as the plug is handled and inserted into the sparkplug well. I'm not the only person to contend with stripped threads while using NGK plugs... I've also seen an example where NGK plugs were hard seized in a Jaguar cylinder head. The plug threaded shell completely broke off, staying behind in the aluminum cylinder head. So their system is hardly fool-proof: I think if it were NGK would have no problem publishing their recommendation and offering a guarantee that their plugs will not seize. Until then: I use anti-seize! BuddyWh >> I understand anti-seize compound to be ultrafine aluminum suspended in >> a petroleum base which will burn off. What's not to conduct? [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >Matthew >2k1 max se > Do you know what's in it? It's a pretty abrasive material and with repeated > use can -cause- thread wear on soft materials, like aluminum heads. This is > why NGK recomends not to use it. Umm, at 100,000 miles per change (or even 60,000) I would think the wear from "repeated use" would not be too significant. I tend to think the special plating that prevents electrolysis would be the rationale for not needing the ant-sieze grease. matthew 2k1 max se > Umm, at 100,000 miles per change (or even 60,000) I would think the > wear from "repeated use" would not be too significant. Well when I read this, the change intervals were more like 15,000 to 30,000. > I tend to think > the special plating that prevents electrolysis would be the rationale > for not needing the ant-sieze grease. Exactly. Maybe they think the abrasive qualities of that stuff could damage that coating? Or affect the heat tranfer? Unfortunatly NGK has none of their tech publications availible on the web. I've requested this tech pub from them, will see what they say. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> Do you know what's in it? It's a pretty abrasive material and with repeated >> use can -cause- thread wear on soft materials, like aluminum heads. This is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >the special plating that prevents electrolysis would be the rationale >for not needing the ant-sieze grease. True... also, many anti-seize compounds don't have an abrasive feel to them. This is what leads mfr's to suggest not using an anti-seize as they contend the slippery anti-seize may lead to over torquing. But that is only a suggestion... they (usually) go further, stating that if you DO use anti-seize you should carefully install using a torque wrench (always a good idea when installing plugs into aluminum heads), sometimes to a lower torque value. Which is kind of why I'm interested is seeing that NGK technical document he has... I want the whole story! >matthew >2k1 max se Anti sieze is typically not electrically conductive and negatively affects spark on ALL plugs, not just NGK plugs. I use motor oil on the threads and replace every 60k miles. The NKG plugs are about $10/each if you shop around for OEM platinum plugs. Well worth $60 not to have a problem with broken plugs due to excessive thermal cycling. Stay away from cheap aftermarket and Bosch plugs. Use Denso or NGK. > >> > Do they need to be replaced at 60k or at 100k? I thought they last for > >> 100k [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs. >Anti sieze is typically not electrically conductive and negatively affects >spark on ALL plugs, not just NGK plugs. I use motor oil on the threads and >replace every 60k miles. The NKG plugs are about $10/each if you shop >around for OEM platinum plugs. Well worth $60 not to have a problem with >broken plugs due to excessive thermal cycling. Why would motor oil be more conductive than anti-seize?? >Stay away from cheap aftermarket and Bosch plugs. Use Denso or NGK. I agree... I've found this true with any Japanese car I've owned... Denso or NGK have always performed better, longer. BuddyWh >> >> > Do they need to be replaced at 60k or at 100k? I thought they last >for [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> NGK says -do not- use antiseize on their plugs. |
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