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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Maxima / May 2004

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Which Coolant is Best?

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Keith Vickers - 13 May 2004 18:17 GMT
Thanks for looking.

I have a '96 i30 and it's time to change the coolant.  I bought this
used two years ago and it had just been serviced at an Infiniti dealer
with new coolant.  Based on the cost on the receipt, I hope that it
was Nissan OEM coolant.

I checked with the local Nissan dealer and they claim their service
department uses the standard green Prestone rather than the Nissan
fluid to save their customers money.

What are your opinions?

Thanks,

Keith
David Geesaman - 13 May 2004 18:26 GMT
They are just ethylene glycol and distilled water.  No difference in
quality, IMO, kinda like buying table salt.  With coolant, getting it
replaced once every year or two is far more important than the brand.  Maybe
have it flushed if it hasn't been done for a while.

Dave

> Thanks for looking.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Keith
BuddyWh - 15 May 2004 13:58 GMT
>They are just ethylene glycol and distilled water.  No difference in
>quality, IMO, kinda like buying table salt.  With coolant, getting it
>replaced once every year or two is far more important than the brand.  Maybe
>have it flushed if it hasn't been done for a while.
>
>Dave

While that is certainly true about the glycol (actually an anti-freeze
and anti-boilover, calling it a coolant is a misnomer), it's not true
of the anti-corrosive package.  There are several different types,
with their own advantages and disadvantages.

In general it's a good idea to stay away from high silicate
formulation anti-freezes (Prestone) in Japanese autos which come with
high nitrate and phosphate formulations.

Probably the best, especially for all-aluminum cooling systems, are
OAT formulations (like Dex-cool) but a vehicle has to carefully
changed over to it.  Done right, it lasts for a long time... actually
much longer than the 5 years recommended.   Hybrids (like many
European) are easy to change to, but do not push them beyond their
recommended change intervals.

At least from what I've read...

Buddy
Dr BioDun Ogundayo - 16 May 2004 15:31 GMT
Hello Folks,

I need help.

I bought my 2002 GLE in  11/2002.  It already had 968miles on it when I
bought it.  I have noticed rust spots (mainly on the left side) in the
inside roofing on the carpeting--from the driver side sun visor all over to
the rear section on top of the left back seat.

I took it to the dealer's service people just yesterday.  The lady told me
it was not rust but soda spills.  Beyond the patronizing and insulting
response (I have observed and checked these spots for over a year), they
simply attempted a cosmetic fix--brushing or polishing over the spots.  The
spots are back with a vengeance.

Please advise, suggest and counsel.  What recourse do I have?  The odometer
now reads 26,180 miles.

I appreciate all input.

'BioDun J. Ogundayo, Ph.D
Boots Crofoot - 13 May 2004 18:39 GMT
Use only Nissan Anti-freeze as the rest will attack the
water pump impeller
Thanks for looking.

I have a '96 i30 and it's time to change the coolant.  I
bought this
used two years ago and it had just been serviced at an
Infiniti dealer
with new coolant.  Based on the cost on the receipt, I hope
that it
was Nissan OEM coolant.

I checked with the local Nissan dealer and they claim their
service
department uses the standard green Prestone rather than the
Nissan
fluid to save their customers money.

What are your opinions?

Thanks,

Keith
Boots Crofoot - 13 May 2004 19:41 GMT
it will attack the impeller because of silicate. That is per
my Nissan dealer and other post on this site. Don't do it.
Find one that is silicate free.
Use only Nissan Anti-freeze as the rest will attack the
water pump impeller
Thanks for looking.

I have a '96 i30 and it's time to change the coolant.  I
bought this
used two years ago and it had just been serviced at an
Infiniti dealer
with new coolant.  Based on the cost on the receipt, I hope
that it
was Nissan OEM coolant.

I checked with the local Nissan dealer and they claim their
service
department uses the standard green Prestone rather than the
Nissan
fluid to save their customers money.

What are your opinions?

Thanks,

Keith
JimV - 13 May 2004 19:54 GMT
You don't want to use the green stuff as it has silicates (sand) which
will damage your water pump bearing over time. Use a silicate free
extended life anti-freeze.

> Thanks for looking.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Keith
JM - 14 May 2004 16:27 GMT
> Thanks for looking.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Keith

Nissan pumps are tougher than, say, Honda, and can tolerate
silicone-silicate coolant.  It is NOT a great idea, however, and
probably will shorten the life of the pump.  Infiniti charged me
$628.00 a few weeks ago to replace the pump on my '96 I30t, by the
way.  And it was out of service for 3 days.

Silicate free is the way to go.  I changed the factory coolant at
37,000 miles and used Dex-Cool.  Pump failed at 95,000 miles.  Not a
great showing overall, but reasonable.  Did the Dex-Cool cause the
failure?  I doubt it.

The Infiniti dealer said Dex-Cool is acceptable.  Of course, like the
dealers using Prestone (green), they stand to make money in the long
run no matter what.

I would flush the Prestone out at your early convenience, and replace
it with Dex-Cool or Nissan coolant.  Flush it out really well, not
just a radiator drain-and-fill.  Otherwise, the Dex-Cool will react
with the Prestone and either gum up or cut the coolant life to 2
years.  And continued wear will result if there is any silicate left
in the system, too.

JM
Bill G - 15 May 2004 06:31 GMT
> Silicate free is the way to go.  I changed the factory coolant at
> 37,000 miles and used Dex-Cool.  Pump failed at 95,000 miles.  Not a
> great showing overall, but reasonable.

95K out of a water pump is quite good. I replace mine every 60K when I do
the timing belt.

Bill G
'91 SE Auto
165K miles
BuddyWh - 15 May 2004 13:44 GMT
>I would flush the Prestone out at your early convenience, and replace
>it with Dex-Cool or Nissan coolant.  Flush it out really well, not

I'd stress to be sure to flush the Prestone really REALLY well if
changing to the Dex-cool, otherwise you'll need to change again in a
year or so.  If another antifreeze contaminates Dex-cool, especially
silicate type, the long life of Dexcool is lost.

When done right, Dexcool will easily give great corrosion  protection
for 5 years or more in a Max's all-aluminum cooling system.

BuddyWh
Roger - 15 May 2004 18:39 GMT
My concerns about Dexcool arise from all the problems GM owners are
experiencing when the stuff turns into mud in their engine.  I don't know
whether they don't change it at appropriate intervals but I believe they
advertise it should last 5 yrs/100k ?  I'd rather change my coolant more
frequently with the regular green Prestone. Which coolants don't have
silicates in them?  I'm aware of OEM Toyota Red, OEM Honda, Dexcool?? and I
believe there might be others.

> >I would flush the Prestone out at your early convenience, and replace
> >it with Dex-Cool or Nissan coolant.  Flush it out really well, not
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> BuddyWh
BuddyWh - 15 May 2004 21:16 GMT
>My concerns about Dexcool arise from all the problems GM owners are
>experiencing when the stuff turns into mud in their engine.  I don't know
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>silicates in them?  I'm aware of OEM Toyota Red, OEM Honda, Dexcool?? and I
>believe there might be others.

I have read the problems GM had with Dexcool... an  OAT formulation...
were with cast iron block engines. If the cooling system is allowed to
run low for long periods of time a sludge forms from iron surfaces in
the vapor zone, i.e., not in constant contact with liquid antifreeze.
The sludge builds up in heater cores and engine passages.  This was
compounded by a radiator cap that easily plugged and, among other
things, wouldn't draw back the overflow so that a casual check of the
overflow tank would make you think the system was topped up.

Their 4.3L V6 was especially prone because it had passages real high
on the engine compared to the radiator, so if the level is even a
little low sludge could form.  

Another problem occurs when large quantities of silicate antifreeze
are mixed with Dexcool for long periods( years) in the system. The
silicates can fall out of suspension over time forming a jelly.
That's rare though and easily controlled.... first,  make sure you
flush well at change over, or change it again in a year (as you should
anyway if NOT using an extended life antifreeze).  Finally,  even half
decent shops now recognize the orange color of Dexcool and use the
correct top off.

AFAIK, all Japanese coolants are low in silicates.  Several European
mfr's use a hybrid coolant (OAT and phospate or somesuch) making them
both low silicate and extended drain.  However, most shops do not
recognize or stock all the myriad of colors... blue, pink, yellow,
tangerine, etc, so you'll never be sure unless you always carry some
with you.

Finally... in several articles I've read, OAT antifreezes performed
as well as high silicate formulations in all aluminum systems, it
lasts for a long time... actually much longer than the 5 years
indicated... and doesn't pose the risk to water pump seals.  I use
OAT, but only when I know i can get a good flush first.  But I'll
never again use Prestone in my Japanese car... it's either OAT or a
Japanese formulation.

BuddyWh
Steve T - 16 May 2004 00:34 GMT
>> I'd rather change my coolant more
>>frequently with the regular green Prestone.
>
> I have read the problems GM had with Dexcool... an  OAT formulation...
> were with cast iron block engines.

> But I'll never again use Prestone in my Japanese car... it's either OAT or
> a Japanese formulation.

You realize many Japanese cars still use cast iron blocks...

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Steve

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BuddyWh - 16 May 2004 11:41 GMT
>>> I'd rather change my coolant more
>>>frequently with the regular green Prestone.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>You realize many Japanese cars still use cast iron blocks...

Because I'm not one to ignore service on the cooling system....
allowing it to run low for years at a time... I'd still use Dexcool
without worry.  Considering it's long service life,  OAT is the best
anti-corrosive going.

But if one is worried...  they could still change it on the same
schedule as a silicate and completely avoid any possibility of
problems with water pump seals.  Since it's cost is about the same as
Prestone they should spend no more. As it relates to the Japanese
coolants, the anti-corrosive is far superior and it's cost is a lot
less.

But at any rate I'll never use... nor suggest using... a high silicate
(Prestone) in a Japanese car. Cast iron block or not.  That is
something I've had my own experiences with in three Hondas and an
Isuzu.

BuddyWh
Steve T - 16 May 2004 00:32 GMT
> My concerns about Dexcool arise from all the problems GM owners are
> experiencing when the stuff turns into mud in their engine.  I don't know
> whether they don't change it at appropriate intervals but I believe they
> advertise it should last 5 yrs/100k ?  I'd rather change my coolant more
> frequently with the regular green Prestone.

I agree. Regular antifreeze has worked just fine for decades with regular
change intervals.
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Steve

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JM - 16 May 2004 01:42 GMT
> My concerns about Dexcool arise from all the problems GM owners are
> experiencing when the stuff turns into mud in their engine.  I don't know
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> silicates in them?  I'm aware of OEM Toyota Red, OEM Honda, Dexcool?? and I
> believe there might be others.

The "mud" comes from contamination.  Either the old-type coolant
didn't get flushed out well, or else the level of Dex-Cool dropped too
low, and air got into the radiator for an extended period of time.
Texaco recommends you overfill the coolant bottle to the extent
practical.  You also should remove the radiator cap (with the engine
cold) and visually check to see that the radiator is completely full.

I have seen photos of the orange mud created when air gets into the
system.  I doubt that the radiator can even be rodded out; it looks
like a replacement would be necessary.  And of course getting the mud
out of the engine itself is just about impossible.

Dex-Cool is long life stuff, but is not "maintenance free", in that
you must keep an eye on the coolant level.

JM
Steve T - 16 May 2004 03:24 GMT
> I have seen photos of the orange mud created when air gets into the
> system.  I doubt that the radiator can even be rodded out; it looks
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Dex-Cool is long life stuff, but is not "maintenance free", in that
> you must keep an eye on the coolant level.

Sounds like way more trouble than it's worth. Doing a drain and fill every
couple of years isn't that big a deal with none of these headaches.

Signature


Steve

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David Geesaman - 17 May 2004 12:29 GMT
> Which coolants don't have
> silicates in them?  I'm aware of OEM Toyota Red, OEM Honda, Dexcool?? and I
> believe there might be others.

   Having just purchased a couple bottles for use in my Max, I wondered the
same thing.  The generic coolant I bought contained ethylene glycol,
diethylene glycol, and distilled water.  A look around the Autozone showed
others with these three ingredients plus silcone silicate, and others.  I
concluded that if silicone silicate isn't in the content list, it's safe.

   Dave
Monte - 18 May 2004 02:58 GMT
> I'd rather change my coolant more frequently with the regular green Prestone.
> Which coolants don't have silicates in them?  I'm aware of OEM Toyota Red,
> OEM Honda, Dexcool?? and I believe there might be others.

Zerex G-05 is low phosphate, low silicate, but not NO silicate at around 250
parts/million.   It is "hybrid organic acid technology" (HOAT), FWIW.  It's
compatible with 'regular' anti-freeze, but the manufacturer (Valvoline)
recommends a good flush and a clean system if converting over to it.  It usually
says "Ford/Chrysler compatible" on the bottle.
 
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