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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Z Cars / April 2004Procharger for 350ZR
I am considering purchasing a procharger for my 350ZR. I was told that at 11psi, the crank horsepower is increased to approximately 500. The procharger is a completely self contained unit with its own oil reservoir. I have heard recently that some Z's have blown the engine with this procharger because it increases the compression ratio significantly above the stock 10.3 to 1. Anyone have any experience with one of these units on their Z? > I am considering purchasing a procharger for my 350ZR. I was told that at > 11psi, the crank horsepower is increased to approximately 500. The [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the stock 10.3 to 1. Anyone have any experience with one of these units on > their Z? 11 PSI of boost on a 10.3 to 1 comp engine on pump gas is a recipe for a dead engine. There is no way you would be able to keep detonation at bay. It would be cool if you could run say 8.0 to 1 with that much boost (or 10.3 to 1 and that boost with 118 octane leaded race gas) but with a stock comp engine and unleaded pump gas, you're asking for broken pistons. BTW you might want to ask what a rebuild costs. If these are anything like the earlier Z's as far as complexity, figure about 4-5K.  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com What if you increased the fuel pump size, used larger injectors and retarded the timing with an ECU reflash. Would 9 PSI be safe on the VQ35DE? > > I am considering purchasing a procharger for my 350ZR. I was told that at > > 11psi, the crank horsepower is increased to approximately 500. The [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > BTW you might want to ask what a rebuild costs. If these are anything like > the earlier Z's as far as complexity, figure about 4-5K. I took a look at this kit. IMO this kit has all the right ingredients except one. The 350Z has a compression ratio of 10.3 to 1. This compression is not boost friendly. The 300ZX n/a has a compression ratio of 10.5 but the "big brother" twin turbo compression is 8.5 to 1. The 1990-1996 300ZX TT also has larger oil jets to cool the bottom of the pistons than the normally aspirated model. The super charger kit should have included a thick metal head gasket to lower the compression ratio of the 350Z. To do this modification right the pistons should be replace to lower the compression to about 8 to 1 maximum and have a method of cooling the pistons. Also while your at it install an oil cooler. -LJ > What if you increased the fuel pump size, used larger injectors > and retarded the timing with an ECU reflash. Would 9 PSI be safe on the VQ35DE? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > http://www.atlantaracing.com > I took a look at this kit. IMO this kit has all the right ingredients except > one. The 350Z has a compression ratio of 10.3 to 1. This compression is not [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > -LJ Ahh, I was curious about the possibility of lowering the compression for a Greddy TT install. Reiver I read about the Greddy TT install and that system is a better bet for two reasons. 1. The Greddy TT kit comes with the metal head gasket to lower the compression ratio of the engine. I think it runs about 9.3 to 1. Whatever the compression ratio is this kit involves allot more work. 2. Since it is a turbo system the following adage applies "if you do not need them you do not have to feed them". Unlike a supercharger that runs continuously, a turbo charger only operates when needed. This allows the pistons to cool off between boost cycles. You also get better gas mileage. So unless you are on the boost for an extended period of time a turbo system should be allot safer. IMO If you are going to do a head gasket you might as well swap the pistons out, you will have half the engine apart anyway. > Ahh, I was curious about the possibility of lowering the compression for a > Greddy TT install. > > Reiver > I read about the Greddy TT install and that system is a better bet for two > reasons. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > IMO If you are going to do a head gasket you might as well swap the > pistons out, you will have half the engine apart anyway. And with the right pistons you will retain some squish which should help with detonation and power, also a thick gasket will screw up the cam timing unless the sprockets are adjusted. A thick head gasket is a compromise at best. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > What if you increased the fuel pump size, used larger injectors > and retarded the timing with an ECU reflash. Would 9 PSI be safe on the > VQ35DE? Not on pump gas and if you retard the timing enough to keep things in one piece, it's going to end up being a dog. BTW you can't just increase the injector size without changing the whole fuel map to go with it. To boost one of these engines, the compression needs to be lowered. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Reflashing the ECU did change the fuel map. Can we get on the same page? ~?????~ > > What if you increased the fuel pump size, used larger injectors > > and retarded the timing with an ECU reflash. Would 9 PSI be safe on the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > injector size without changing the whole fuel map to go with it. To boost > one of these engines, the compression needs to be lowered. > X-No-Archive:yes > > Reflashing the ECU did change the fuel map. Can we get on the same page? I thought you just meant lowering the timing, sorry I missed what you were saying. Are -you- capable of remapping the fuel curve? "Reflashing" the ECU sounds simple but it's not and doesn't mean it's remapped for different injectors unless someone changes that specifically... Go ahead and do all this and let us know what happens! :-) BTW I'd price a rebuild to make sure you can afford to blow this engine up... My guess is it's about a 4-5K rebuild after you blow the ring lands off a piston. You asked for advice and I gave it. Name -one- boosted engine that runs 10.3-1 comp from the factory. There is a reason they lower the comp on boosted engines. Ignore this and learn the hard way why they do it that way? Sounds like some people already have! SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com ~?????~ > > X-No-Archive:yes > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > boosted engines. Ignore this and learn the hard way why they do it that > way? Sounds like some people already have! I wasn't being a smart a.s I was stating facts. I am running 9 lbs of boost with track slips and dyno's and people on the forums know it. I have not done any internal work, just added larger injectors, bigger fuel pump, retarded the timing and remapped the fuel maps etc etc with the reflash. Here is where I reflashed. http://www.technosquareinc.com/contact.htm Here are two photo albums from cars I race http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289141969 and lastly here is my new web page I am working on. http://home.surewest.net/mailmax/index.htm If your intention is to stop people from going FI on the stock VQ35DE engine too late hehe there are hundreds from about 5 different vendors and counting. Most averaging 360 HP many over 400rwhp on stock internals! Have a nice day. > X-No-Archive:yes > > ~«©¿©»~ > > "Steve" <fotocord@yahoo.com> wrote in message >> You asked for advice and I gave it. Name -one- boosted engine that runs >> 10.3-1 comp from the factory. There is a reason they lower the comp on [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I wasn't being a smart a.s I was stating facts. I am running 9 lbs of > boost with track slips and dyno's and people on the forums know it. Get back to us in 50K miles. Boosting a 10.3 to 1 engine using stock internals is a hack way of doing it and isn't going to be reliable. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com Some people just don't like being wrong eh? Research the Greddy TT for our car or the ATI Procharger, or the Dream Works or the Power Enterprise TT, or the Vortech or the Stillen etc etc etc. I am not saying that 8.5 or even 9:1 is great for high boost like the old Nissan Tot's or Supra's I know what you mean and yes some people are rebuilding their blocks with 8.5 Peuters or SGP rings and Pistons etc but they are going for 10 or more HP. I have about 10k miles on my setup with Borla Headers, True Dual, RT Cats Crawford Intake Plenum etc etc etc. I watch my gauges. I understand you point about the compression but it's sorta silly to say the sky is falling when I have 5 boosted cars in my local car club alone one with 7 lbs all stock and 40k miles on it! Just go to my350z or 350zmotoring.com.com and see the dozens of people in the FI section running between 5.6 to 9 pounds of boost on daily drivers. I have a feeling we could go back and forth forever but I am happy with my setup and no the warning signs and have several gauges in place. I upped my injectors, and fuel pump and did the ecu flash stuff at the link I gave you that you probably didn't even read so I guess just let us all run boost and report back. I bought my 350Z in Nov of 2002 BTW, I am not a noob round here or on the boards lol. I think it sounds like you are just an N/A man? Nothing wrong with that, we have a 310 rwhp 350Z in our car club with the Mossy setup, Nismo cams JWT flywheel etc. We boost all day, sure there were some casualties last year (10 out of about 200) in cylinder #6 but all have either been from improper tuning, running lean or detonation from the timing being 28 degrees TDC which some kits don't like. There are several ways around this, my reflash route, the J&S Timing KR Box, MSD, GReddy etc etc. Stay cool fool! ~?????~ No. Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. Max > > X-No-Archive:yes > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Get back to us in 50K miles. Boosting a 10.3 to 1 engine using stock > internals is a hack way of doing it and isn't going to be reliable. > I have a feeling we could go back and forth forever but I am happy with my > setup and no the warning signs and have several gauges in place. I upped > my injectors, and fuel pump and did the ecu flash stuff at the link I gave > you that you probably didn't even read so I guess just let us all run > boost and report back. I read where you linked, didn't have much info other than a phone number.. I sure can't stop anyone from doing this and actually I hope lots of people around atlanta do this in the way you sugest. Blown engines make us LOTS of money!! I've made loads off of those electronic boost controllers on the twin turbo 300z's :-) > I bought my 350Z in Nov of 2002 BTW, I am not a > noob round here or on the boards lol. I think it sounds like you are just > an N/A man? You obviously didn't look at the site for our shop, just finishing an intercooled turbo 77 280 Z project for a customer... Done lots of twin turbo hotrods doing internal engine mods (cooling mods and head work) using sport turbos and big intercoolers etc. If anyone wanted me to do this FI mod to a 350Z, I'd HIGHLY recomend them lowering the compression first and if they didn't want to, I sure wouldn't stand behind whatever happened. > We boost all day, > sure there were some casualties last year (10 out of about 200) in > cylinder #6 but all have either been from improper tuning, running lean or > detonation from the timing being 28 degrees TDC which some kits don't > like. Whatever... They aren't going to be reliable at nearly 10PSI with 10.3 comp as witnessed by your 'claimed' 5% engine failure rate this quickly in the car's life. 5 to 6 PSI might live but 9-10 isn't going to. In the summer climate in Atlanta they sure wouldn't last very long if they were run very hard. Blowing a shitload of fuel and backing the timing down -IS- a hack and will cause other problems such as high cyl wall wear, exh valve heating, exh manifold cracking, oil contamination, ruined cats etc. These are the reasons the OEM's don't use high compression on boosted engines. Why do you think they lower the compression when it adds to the lag a turbo/boosted engine has? You sound just like the people who say NOS is OK on a stock comp engine until they roast it.. Like I said to the OP, I would seriously consider what a rebuild costs before I tried this stuff. If you can't afford to replace the pistons when the kit is installed, will you be able to afford a major overhaul after you break some pistons later and maybe trash other stuff in the process? > Stay cool fool! Cute. Just remember not to cry when your engine is hosed. :-) SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com so you suggest not to mess with these things? > > What if you increased the fuel pump size, used larger injectors > > and retarded the timing with an ECU reflash. Would 9 PSI be safe on the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > injector size without changing the whole fuel map to go with it. To boost > one of these engines, the compression needs to be lowered. > so you suggest not to mess with these things? Without lowering the compression, it's very risky long term IMHO. Look at the comp ratio of ANY factory boosted engine. >> > What if you increased the fuel pump size, used larger injectors >> > and retarded the timing with an ECU reflash. Would 9 PSI be safe on the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> http://www.atlantaracing.com SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com thanks. they are really pushing these here... the pressure is almost making me want one. lol. > > so you suggest not to mess with these things? > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >> > >> http://www.atlantaracing.com |
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