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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Z Cars / January 2005Z32 sudden electric oddness
I just realized my TT 300ZX '93 64k miles lost a few electrical functions (non-vital) - and I think they all happened together since I'd have noticed any of them before the shock of ALL ...naw, if they were accumulating over time I'd have noticed... I look at the LED clock every day for certain. Altho I didn't see any fuses that were melted open, it's hard for me -since my eyes are bad. Besides, I'm suspicious abt those fuses since the only extra clue I can offer relates to them: I'd removed an old Valentine One radar detector a couple weeks ago, and it had been wired in parallel to a fuse bus by a little copper strip (which I removed). So now I can see I've lost my digital clock display (on the center console, also my rear wiper doesn't move, and the front wiper's intermittent function is out (regular speed ok.) What does that sound like to you... do these circuits tend to fail together because of a common path or fuse? I *could* yank them fuses and use a continuity probe... but is the pattern of lost circuits familiar to you? Thanks a lot! > I *could* yank them fuses and use a continuity probe... but is the > pattern of lost circuits familiar to you? Get a test light and check them in place via the "nubs" on each end of the fuse. 99% of automotive electrocal problems involve "extra" wiring people have added at some point in the car's life, i.e. radio, phones etc.  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > Get a test light and check them in place via the "nubs" on each end of the > fuse. 99% of automotive electrocal problems involve "extra" wiring people > have added at some point in the car's life, i.e. radio, phones etc. -Steve Steve, I don't get it: This method requires that each fuse be removed before a continuity test, or...while still in place?? The nubs you cite are...? I see tranlucent colored plastic w the bridge of conductor seen embeded inside, and also the 2 flat metal insertion pins. Nubs? Test in place or pull out first? Thanks a million! -Pham >> Get a test light and check them in place via the "nubs" on each end of >> the fuse. 99% of automotive electrocal problems involve "extra" wiring [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I don't get it: This method requires that each fuse be removed before a > continuity test, or...while still in place?? Test in place. > The nubs you cite are...? I see tranlucent colored plastic w the bridge > of conductor seen embeded inside, and also the 2 flat metal insertion > pins. Nubs? Look closely at the back of the fuse and you'll see two metal nubs/holes that can be probed with the fuse in place. Just turn the key on and check for power on each side. I use a test light as it's simple to see if the fuse is good or not. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > Look closely at the back of the fuse and you'll see two metal nubs/holes > that can be probed with the fuse in place. Just turn the key on and check > for power on each side. I use a test light as it's simple to see if the > fuse is good or not. Steve, I have no test light as such, but I do have a Volt-Ohm-Meter which I'm betting will do the job okay if you agree. I sure need to verify what I hope to find from these holes or nubs I'll be sticking my probes into! So, give it to me straight: With ignition On, 1) I'm looking to see that there's about 12V DC across every fuse bus, regardless of color fuse present. 2) I better pray there is 12V, too, cuz if not then there's a problem elsewhere than the fuses of fusebox! 3) If I get 12 VDC everyone, then I turn Ignition OFF and do something to verify each of the fuses themselves. Thanks again, Steve! >> Look closely at the back of the fuse and you'll see two metal nubs/holes >> that can be probed with the fuse in place. Just turn the key on and check [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 1) I'm looking to see that there's about 12V DC across every fuse bus, > regardless of color fuse present. You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to go buy a $3 test light (the screwdriver with a light bulb and ground wire kind) and demand using a VOM instead..do you think it's more "professional" to use one of these? There are basically useless pieces of equipment for people who don't understand even the basic logic on testing fuses. If you INSIST in saving the $3 this piece of test equiptment costs, you GROUND the VOM and with the positive probe look for voltage on both sides of the fuse with it in place and the key on. This still doesn't test current like a test lamp does but might be enough information to toally confuse you. You don't test -across- the fuse. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light Whoa there, Steve! I thank you kindly for the advice, really, and if sermonizing at a stranger floats yer boat, I guess your kind and free advice is its own compensation! -But consider that, anonymous tho we may be, lay people aren't necessarily clueless, stubborn idiots! I just already own a VOM (and a VTVM too) as their versatility renders them handy for ham radio, etc. I wouldn't begrudge ("refuse") the $3 for a test light, but - I don't happen to own one... and I must confess it isn't easy for dopey me to imagine any task that a test light can do which a VOM couldn't do too. All being equal, I find I'm not real anxious to find or buy one! Not tryin to be a wiseass, Steve (I'm a physician: no way a mechanic expert) ... but is there some cool help you find that test-lights provide that makes 'em better than a multimeter (voltage, current, resistance)? -Pham > You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light ============================= Whoa there, Steve! I thank you kindly for the advice, really, and if sermonizing at a stranger floats yer boat, I guess your kind and free advice is its own compensation! -But consider that, anonymous tho we may be, lay people aren't necessarily clueless, stubborn idiots! I just already own a VOM (and a VTVM too) as their versatility renders them handy for ham radio, etc. I wouldn't begrudge ("refuse") the $3 for a test light, but - I don't happen to own one... and I must confess it isn't easy for dopey me to imagine any task that a test light can do which a VOM couldn't do too. All being equal, I find I'm not real anxious to find or buy one! Not tryin to be a wiseass, Steve (I'm a physician: no way a mechanic expert) ... but is there some cool help you find that test-lights provide that makes 'em better than a multimeter (voltage, current, resistance)? -Pham > You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light (the screwdriver with a light bulb and ground wire [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If you INSIST in saving the $3 this piece of test equiptment costs, you > You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light ====-=== Whoa there, Steve! I thank you kindly for the advice, really, and if sermonizing at a stranger floats yer boat, I guess your kind and free advice is its own compensation! -But consider that, anonymous tho we may be, lay people aren't necessarily clueless, stubborn idiots! I just already own a VOM (and a VTVM too) as their versatility renders them handy for ham radio, etc. I wouldn't begrudge ("refuse") the $3 for a test light, but - I don't happen to own one... and I must confess it isn't easy for dopey me to imagine any task that a test light can do which a VOM couldn't do too. All being equal, I find I'm not real anxious to find or buy one! Not tryin to be a wiseass, Steve (I'm a physician: no way a mechanic expert) ... but is there some cool help you find that test-lights provide that makes 'em better than a multimeter (voltage, current, resistance)? -Pham > You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light (the screwdriver with a light bulb and ground wire > kind) and demand using a VOM instead..do you think it's more "professional" > to use one of these? There are basically useless pieces of equipment for > people who don't understand even the basic logic on testing fuses. > > If you INSIST in saving the $3 this piece of test equiptment costs, you > You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light ====-=== Whoa there, Steve! I thank you kindly for the advice, really, and if sermonizing at a stranger floats yer boat, I guess your kind and free advice is its own compensation! -But consider that, anonymous tho we may be, lay people aren't necessarily clueless, stubborn idiots! I just already own a VOM (and a VTVM too) as their versatility renders them handy for ham radio, etc. I wouldn't begrudge ("refuse") the $3 for a test light, but - I don't happen to own one... and I must confess it isn't easy for dopey me to imagine any task that a test light can do which a VOM couldn't do too. All being equal, I find I'm not real anxious to find or buy one! Not tryin to be a wiseass, Steve (I'm a physician: no way a mechanic expert) ... but is there some cool help you find that test-lights provide that makes 'em better than a multimeter (voltage, current, resistance)? -Pham :> You don't understand and I swear =I= can't understand why people REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light (the screwdriver with a light bulb and ground wire > kind) and demand using a VOM instead..do you think it's more [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > REFUSE to > go buy a $3 test light ====-=== Whoa whoa hold up there, Steve! I thank you kindly for the advice, really, and if sermonizing at a stranger floats yer boat, well I think your thorough generous advice is sure its own compensation! But consider that, anonymous tho we may be, lay people aren't necessarily clueless, stubborn idiots! Like many, I suppose, I already own a VOM (even a VTVM !) as its versatility renders them handy for ham radio, etc. I wouldn't begrudge ("REFUSE") $3 for a test light, but - I don't own one... and I must confess it isn't easy for dopey ol' me to imagine any task a test light can do which a VOM couldn't do too. Versatile, as I said. So, all being equal, I find I'm not real anxious to find or buy one. Yes I do understand fuses well- maybe I threw you out of temper by offering to check voltage across its bus, instead of grounding one side. Dumb- I was thinking of current, not voltage. Not tryin to be a wiseass, Steve (I'm a physician, not any sort mechanic expert) ... but is there some cool help you find that test-lights provide that makes 'em better than a multimeter (voltage, current, resistance)? -Pham > and I must confess it isn't easy for dopey ol' me to > imagine any task a test light can do which a VOM couldn't do too. Like put a load on the circuit while it's also testing for voltage? Sure you CAN do it with resistors etc but have YOU ever done it that way? Also gives a quick postive test without having to hold probes with both hands and try to look at the meter at the same time. > Versatile, as I said. So, all being equal, I find I'm not real anxious > to find or buy one. OK then try this, take your VOM. Put one probe on the battery, touch/hold the other to your right hand, touch the other post of the battery with your left. You'll read 12V THROUGH your body. How much good is voltage with almost zero amperage going to do? This same thing happens with corroded connections, you'll get a reading on a VOM but you'll get NOTHING with a test light. I wish I had $1 everytime someone came in and told me they checked it with a volt meter and it's fine.. All the amateur mechanics get totally lost trying to use a VOM when a simple test light would show them where the problem is. ANY parts store sells these and are usually way under $5. Now you've become one more person I've had to go into a LONG explaination over this because they think their VOM is the "high tech" way of testing simple electical problems and you wonder why I get tired of this? SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > Now you've become one more person I've had to go into a LONG explaination > over this because they think their VOM is the "high tech" way of testing > simple electical problems and you wonder why I get tired of this? Steve: No, I don't wonder that you're tired of this! But, here I want to offer some advice from a guy who learned (after 27 years) that he, too, was becoming exasperated at repeating explanations over and over to people. 1) This repetitive explanation you do has (understandably) become a pet-peeve for you & you get angry as soon as you start to feel it's going to be required of you yet again. You may act hostile at folks who do nothing more than ask "Why?" they have no notion of what they did wrong... they don't expect advice must be taken on faith & they don't feel it's civil to be expected to hear that "Just Believe Me: I'm Right!, ya dumb Hoser". 2) It's understandable you feel as you do: *every* service industry includes repetitive explanations, and the most successful vendors find a way to give the info without making an (imaginary) contract with the customers that -since they asked for advice, they're oblgated to be meek, grateful, and compliant once they get it. The clients know nothing of the imaginary agreement, are not constrained by it. That pisses me off right there! 3) You're *already* in a position of power and authority if you've been asked for help: your clients will be doubly grateful if you can advise them and still let them keep some dignity despite their dependency. Noblesse oblige, say the frogs. 4) THis other guy's solution to keep from "burning out" over contempt for the stupidity of the rest of the world: Take the 2 or 3 explanations that give you the most grief ('cuz your answers are long, or the questions asked so often) and write them out as "Information Sheets". When some hoser asks one of the taboo questions, don't slap yer forehead, don't cuss him out: paste a fake smile on and reach for your sheet saying: "Y'know, lots of folks ask me that and I found my answers were so long I was forgetting some important points... so I wrote in all down here. Read it sometime and call me if there are any confusing spots!" You could've just sent me an attachment after my first hesitation, say. Steve, I have about a dozen topics now, and the patients love them! I choose my words carefully ... [totally unnecessary, e.g., to accuse someone of "you just want a high-tech solution in that VOM- you so pathetic as to try impress me with THAT?" -Which I heard the 1st time, Steve! It wouldn't do to make insulting accusations, beneath my dignity to refute, BTW] ... in an info sheet since I take my time and and I'm not angry at anyone in particular just then. The patient is convinced of my POV, feels they've been treated with respect, and I don't have to say it all... ever again! Best, Pham >> Now you've become one more person I've had to go into a LONG explaination >> over this because they think their VOM is the "high tech" way of testing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > years) that he, too, was becoming exasperated at repeating explanations > over and over to people. It's not just this one point, it's ANYTHING related to a car. For some reason male human beings feel they are not MEN if they don't know everything about a car and will almost always ARGUE they are right, like you did. Instead of accepting an explaintion from a professional, they must question and argue what the professional is telling them is the easiest and best way to do something. Doesn't matter if it's what spark plugs to use or why the factory oil filters are better than a fram, it's the same thing. It's some sort of male macho thing and it gets old. There is no way I could write up something simple that would cover -any- point like this, it would be a 500 page book! SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > It's not just this one point, it's ANYTHING related to a car. For some > reason male human beings feel they are not MEN if they don't know [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > be a 500 page book! > -- Steve Well, Steve, it *can* be wearing, very wearing- even for me. But sure you have a point there, no denying it. My Mom, may she rest in peace, was all against medicine, always insisted I'd be happier if I went into dentistry: MD's had too hard a life, so she said. Well, when socialized medicine & HMOs cut my income by 2/3 and the dentists (to this day) stayed free to charge what they saw fit, it made me very thoughtful indeed ... but dentists *also* get to stuff your mouth with gauze & cotton once they've had enough of our opinions -- maybe you're young enough & should give some thought to Mom's advice. best. Pham > Well, when socialized medicine & HMOs cut my income by 2/3 and the > dentists (to this day) stayed free to charge what they saw fit, Actually dentists charge what people can afford. Given many of their patients are self pay they never got dependant on the insurance companies. I blame the last generations doctors greed (raising their rates to the point no one could afford self pay so EVERYONE has to have insurance) on the current problems. If the insurance companies weren't involved, we'd pay less and the doctors would make more. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > > Well, when socialized medicine & HMOs cut my income by 2/3 and the > > dentists (to this day) stayed free to charge what they saw fit, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the current problems. If the insurance companies weren't involved, we'd pay > less and the doctors would make more. Actually dentists charge fees based on extremely high costs of doing business and work out fixed-rate pricing with insurance companies. If you join a dental plan they'll get a few dollars from you per month, and one visit during a year will cost them as much as you've paid. They make a lot of money off of optional cosmetic work, not basic functional work. To set up a dental office you must: 1. Rent/buy an office (2nd house payment). 2. Hire two+ full-time employees and deal with a pile of tax issues ($40,000+ per year). 3. Pay for malpractice insurance and toxic/bio waste disposal. 4. Buy equipment that costs well into the $10,000s at minimum (2nd car payment). 5. Attend conventions or other mandatory continuing education programs ($1,000s per year). 6. Pay off $50,000+ in student debt from dental school. We've got easily the best dental care in the world, but such a premium standard costs a lot. Many dental students go to Mexico for training and do a pile of basic pulling or drill & fills in small towns. If we did the same it would be a lot cheaper here. There are some greedy gougers out there, but most are just people doing an expensive job. [I've got several relatives in the profession.] -John >> > Well, when socialized medicine & HMOs cut my income by 2/3 and the >> > dentists (to this day) stayed free to charge what they saw fit, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Actually dentists charge fees based on extremely high costs of doing > business and work out fixed-rate pricing with insurance companies. Given most people I know don't have dental insurance, seems to be a odd statement. I never said their prices weren't fair, just they realize since many of their patients are self pay they can't charge say $1500 to clean your teeth. Doctors on the other hand got used to insurance paying almost anything they asked so their prices now reflect that. > To set up a dental office you must: It's the same in the auto repair industry, people ignore all the hidden costs of doing bussiness. I don't and think dentists prices are more than fair. Doctors on the other hand aren't. I was charged $1200 by an ER doctor who I never even saw for a consult about a shoulder injury and was charged $1500 by the primary doctor to read the xrays? I wasn't there more than about 2 hours, the "treatment" was a shot of pain killer, told me to see an orthopedic surgeon on monday (didn't even say what was wrong..) and send me home with a bill of ~$4000! I guess my point was: doctors are so tied into the insurance bussiness now, they can't get away from it and are being strangled by the same thing that used to make them rich. This same thing happened to the auto body bussiness, it's now totally controled bu the insurance companies even down to what you can charge a hour etc etc. I like "free market pricing" but when insurance get's involved, they force their pricing to insure they are still "in the middle" making money of other people's work. They are a real parasite and it's a shame they now have so much control on our lives.. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com > > Now you've become one more person I've had to go into a LONG explaination > > over this because they think their VOM is the "high tech" way of testing [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Best, Pham It is as Steve said, a simple test light works just fine. Why overcomplicate matters--doctor? I see examples every single day working in engineering where guys with advanced engineering degrees go way over and beyond out of their way to make things much more difficult than they really have to be. If a solution is truly simple, they cannot accept the fact that it doesn't take months worth of hand calculations, finite element analysis using computer software, extensive testing, etc. to prove that a certain design or design change is a viable solution to a problem. Analysis paralysis we call it. The moral of the story is to take the advice of a guy that is truly gifted in regards to mechanical aptitude, Steve T., and go with the proven, very simple test procedure. Your original question didn't pertain to practicing medicine, so it would probably be best to just listen to a non-medical professional for your auto-related problem(s). R.M. |
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