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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / May 2005Glowing Red Exhaust Manifold on '95 2.4L Nissan Pickup...........
The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the distributor. Cap, rotor, plugs and wires thrown at it with no luck. Compression is within 10% of high and low cylinders. It has a ticking noise that sounds like a valve out of adjustment but the valves are not adjustable on this engine. The noise is not heard when the engine is first started and the enigne will tach up quickly as normal but after five minutes or so of idling, the ticking noise appears and the engine will not tach up and exhaust gets red hot. Exhaust out the pipe is clean and not black and does not smell overly rich. I've seen some posts elsewhere mentioning distributor not advancing with engine rpm making for a way retarded timing and red exhaust. I've seen injectors mentioned too but I'm trying to figure out what the ticking noise has to do with the driveability problem. Could a bad injector sound like a valve out of adjustment? Timing chain, guides, sprockets and tensioner replaced due to a broken slack side chain guide. Any ideas???? Thanks, no one. > The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach > up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > replaced due to a broken slack side chain guide. Any ideas???? Thanks, > no one. The manifold is glowing because fuel is burning in it. Put a long screwdriver on each injector and the other end on your ear. See if one sounds different. I'd guess you have one stuck open. >> The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach >> up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >screwdriver on each injector and the other end on your ear. See if one >sounds different. I'd guess you have one stuck open. Will try the injector sound test tomorrow. I guess the loud clicking could be an injector solenoid or two trying to close a stuck injector. The truck will run fine for a few minutes with no clicking(sometimes) but as soon as I hear the clicking..... very slow tach up and usually won't go past 3000 rpms. The exhaust is not black like I would think an overly rich condition would produce but I'll see if the clicking noise is coming from an injector. Thanks for your time, no one. > The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach > up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the > distributor. The ignition timing is WAY RETARDED. That's about the only thing that will do this.  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach >> up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the >> distributor. > >The ignition timing is WAY RETARDED. That's about the only thing that will >do this. The distributor is rotated for maximum advance as it is, maximum counterclockwise. I haven't put a timing light on it yet but I need to see if the distributor is even advancing at all. Might be dead. I have a haynes manual, not the best, and it states that the 2nd notch from the left(looking down at the crank pulley) is zero. I have rough set the timing by turning the engine over until the 10deg BTDC notch lines up with the pointer then rotate the distributor until the rotor lines up with the number one plug terminal in the distributor cap. Will check the distributor timing/function tomorow as well. Thanks for the info, no one. >>> The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach >>> up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > counterclockwise. I haven't put a timing light on it yet but I need to > see if the distributor is even advancing at all. Get a light, someone probably installed it wrong as it should run like CRAP and ping like crazy twisted full advance. The only time I've ever seen a manifold glow red was when the timing was =real= retarded. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com [posted and mailed] >>>> The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely >>>> tach up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > CRAP and ping like crazy twisted full advance. The only time I've ever > seen a manifold glow red was when the timing was =real= retarded. Yeah, absolutely. If somebody messed with the oil pump they might have put the dist. gear back in off time. The dist should be in the middle of the adjustment range when the gear is in right. One tooth off and it will be at either end of the adjustment, and still not right. Yours sounds like it's 2 teeth retarded. Scott B '89 240sx '84 720 KK 4x4 > > The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach > > up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the > > distributor. > > The ignition timing is WAY RETARDED. That's about the only thing that will > do this. i disagree, a blocked catalyst may have a similar effect. if one valve was stuck open causing an ignition in the exhaust as you mention, then it will still rev up, albeit with a misfire. >> > The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach >> > up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > i disagree, a blocked catalyst may have a similar effect. But the exhaust won't glow cherry red at idle. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com A dead body might be stuck inside and burning this Mark guy always has some a.shole comment. > A dead body might be stuck inside and burning Not always, I helped several people, it's not all ahole comment. You cant be serious all your life, you will have a chance to get serious in hell yeah i know yuve been helpful before, i had a bad morning and you took the brunt of it, > Not always, I helped several people, it's not all ahole comment. You cant > be serious all your life, you will have a chance to get serious in hell I've never seen an iron manifold glow red under ANY circimstances! My best gues is your converter is clogged to the max. The ticking sound is probably an exhaust leak that you only hear when the back pressure is near max. I did have this problem on my Honda. I got some strange noises like ticking when the converter choked up and it popped the joint between the head pipe and the converter. I'm guessing you're also down on power too. -Pete > The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach > up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > replaced due to a broken slack side chain guide. Any ideas???? Thanks, > no one. > I've never seen an iron manifold glow red under ANY circimstances! Set the timing at 10-15 degrees AFTER TDC and you'll see one do it! SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >I've never seen an iron manifold glow red under ANY circimstances! My >best gues is your converter is clogged to the max. The ticking sound is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >-Pete Hi, I'm going to try and get back on the truck this afternoon or tomorrow. Yes, the truck is way down on rpms when the ticking is heard. When first started or when no clicking noise is heard the truck will rev to 6000 or so then only to 3000 or so when the clicking/red exhaust appears. I'm going to check to see if the distributor is advancing first then maybe check the convertor for color change as well. When the chain was replaced, the crank key was straight up per the Haynes manual(not the best), the cam sprocket pip mark parallel to the cam cover mount(3 o'clock position facing the engine) and the oil pump indexed so the distributor rotor was pointing to #1 cylinder. The engine was not moved when the old chain was removed so the cam/crank mechanical timing should have been close. I originally hoped this was the problem but the ticking was there before and after the chain replacement so I need to look somewhere else, like the exhaust system itself. The chain was replaced because of broken chain guides. The truck did have a broken off O2 sensor that was replaced with an O2 sensor the owner provided. I believe when he drove it over it would barely get up the inclined driveway I have so it probably had the red exhaust then but it could not be seen in the daylight. It did have the ticking noise which sounds like a collapsed lifter on #3 or #4 cylinder and it would barely idle. The exhaust is looking like the culprit. Thanks for the info, no one. >>I've never seen an iron manifold glow red under ANY circimstances! My >>best gues is your converter is clogged to the max. The ticking sound is [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >cylinder and it would barely idle. The exhaust is looking like the >culprit. Thanks for the info, no one. Well, finally started up the truck again. I checked the timing with a timing light and it does advance 10 degrees or so when the engine is revved up. With the engine idling, the timing appears to be at least 10 degrees BTDC. The exhaust only gets red when the engine is revved up and not just idling. The exhaust is a little rich smelling but does not have a sulphur smell, just like a rich running carburetor. When the exhaust glows red, it seems to start at the #4 cylinder and the small air pipes at the exhaust manifold below the O2 sensor. The exhaust cools down within a minute or two after returning to idle. The downpipe does not turn red after 2 or so inches from the exhaust manifold nor does the convertor and exhaust still comes out the tailpipe. The ticking noise was there from the first cold startup. Maybe it is a stuck open/leaking injector? The ticking noise does sound like a collapsed hydraulic lifter, though. What about the cam/crank not being in mechanical time?? Cam advanced? Does anyone have a factory manual with pictures that show the cam/crank sprocket alignment and the crank damper timing marks? I'm going to pull the spark plugs and make sure #3 & #4 cylinders are firing and not dumping raw fuel into the exhaust. Thank, no one. > Well, finally started up the truck again. I checked the timing with a > timing light and it does advance 10 degrees or so when the engine is > revved up. With the engine idling, the timing appears to be at least > 10 degrees BTDC. What are the specs? Many newer cars have 20-30 deg at idle. Have you tried advancing it and see if it stops glowing? SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> Well, finally started up the truck again. I checked the timing with a >> timing light and it does advance 10 degrees or so when the engine is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >What are the specs? Many newer cars have 20-30 deg at idle. Have you tried >advancing it and see if it stops glowing? The distributor is almost at max advance as it is due to the concerns of it possibly being way retarded. I believe the specs are 4 BTDC but the truck will not rev up at that setting. Max advance unfortunately does not aleviate the glowing exhaust. I need to find out what the notches on the crank pulley represent as far as what notch is TDC. The Haynes manual does not specifically identify the marks for the '95 2.4L so the cam/crank timing may be way off not the distributor since the distributor is timed to the oil pump. Thanks, no one. >>> Well, finally started up the truck again. I checked the timing with a >>> timing light and it does advance 10 degrees or so when the engine is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > of it possibly being way retarded. I believe the specs are 4 BTDC but > the truck will not rev up at that setting. You've got the distributor or the camshaft way out of time. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>>> Well, finally started up the truck again. I checked the timing with a >>>> timing light and it does advance 10 degrees or so when the engine is [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >You've got the distributor or the camshaft way out of time. Do you know if anyone has a factory manual for a '95 2.4L engine that has a picture of the cam/crank sprocket alignment. Haynes does not specifically show the '95 year engine. A picture of the crank pulley with the timing marks would be helpful as well. The distributor only goes in one way as it is splined with the crank/oil pump. Thanks, no one. You might want to try the local Nissan dealer, they might let you take a look at their book. >>>>> Well, finally started up the truck again. I checked the timing with a >>>>> timing light and it does advance 10 degrees or so when the engine is [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > goes in one way as it is splined with the crank/oil pump. Thanks, no > one. > The distributor only > goes in one way as it is splined with the crank/oil pump. And if someone has ever had the pump out of the car, this could have been installed wrong. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> The distributor only >> goes in one way as it is splined with the crank/oil pump. > >And if someone has ever had the pump out of the car, this could have been >installed wrong. In order to remove the timing chain cover, you have to remove the oil pump. The oil pump shaft goes up through the cover and is splined to the crank by a large brass sleeve then to the distributor mount. The distributor can go in only one way but the oil pump could be out of mechanical time except you install the oil pump then install the distributor checking to see that the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug terminal. If it is not, you remove the oil pump and move it a tooth or two as needed. It all goes back to the distributor, oil pump and crank being in time with each other but the cam is retarded in timing to them all. I guess it's time to get a real manual and dump the Haynes. Thanks, no one. >>> The distributor only >>> goes in one way as it is splined with the crank/oil pump. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > distributor checking to see that the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug > terminal. It's not that simple, you could easily have the pump out a tooth and the car still run. Given you have to twist the distributor to the end of it's slot for the car to run, tells me you got the pump out a tooth. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>>> The distributor only >>>> goes in one way as it is splined with the crank/oil pump. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >still run. Given you have to twist the distributor to the end of it's slot >for the car to run, tells me you got the pump out a tooth. If the oil pump was off by one tooth then the rotor would not point to the number one spark plug terminal because the distributor is driven by the oil pump drive. The oil pump drive has a flat spot and the end of the oil pump drive looks like a "D" so if the distributor is in time the oil pump is too. If the oil pump is moved back a tooth then the distributor would be out of time. I'm thinking it's probably an excessive fuel problem which requires so much advance to keep the plugs lit. Whenever that ticking noise goes away, the truck runs fine so I don't think it's a cam timing problem. The compression is higher now than with the old chain but it still has the ticking noise/glowing exhaust. Nothing has changed except for the higher compression. Still ticks, still glows red when revved up. It had a broken off O2 sensor that was replaced along with the nut that screws into the exhausrt manifold. Could be the wrong O2 sensor for the engine. I didn't purchase it but I did install it. Thanks for your ideas, no one. >>It's not that simple, you could easily have the pump out a tooth and the >>car still run. Given you have to twist the distributor to the end of it's [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the number one spark plug terminal because the distributor is driven > by the oil pump drive. Please don't talk to me like I'm a DUMB a.s! I;ve rebuilt hundreds if not thousands of these engines. If you have the distributor at the end of it's slot to get the timing figure you posted (and to get the truck to run even decent) you've got it or the cam out of time. PERIOD. > I'm thinking it's probably an > excessive fuel problem which requires so much advance to keep the > plugs lit. You are totally clueless... Good luck since you refuse to even deal with the OBVIOUS problem. Too much fuel will NOT cause the problems you are having (nor will advancing the timing cover up a rich condition in ANY way whatsoever, it will make it worse..) and will NOT make a manifold glow red, but since you seem to know so much.... Like I said good luck.. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com After you get the lean condition on the engine corrected you will need to replace the converter. no wrote: > The exhaust gets cherry red when sitting idling and will barely tach > up or drive in gear(manual) . The cam/crank are in time as well as the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > replaced due to a broken slack side chain guide. Any ideas???? Thanks, > no one. > After you get the lean condition on the engine corrected LOL.... How and why would a lean engine make an exhaust manifold glow red or damage a converter? SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >>The noise is not heard when the engine >> is first started and the enigne will tach up quickly as normal but >> after five minutes or so of idling, the ticking noise appears and the >> engine will not tach up and exhaust gets red hot. If it starts without choke it's rich. SignatureClive. >>> The noise is not heard when the engine >>> is first started and the enigne will tach up quickly as normal but >>> after five minutes or so of idling, the ticking noise appears and the >>> engine will not tach up and exhaust gets red hot. > > If it starts without choke it's rich. I didn't know '95 Nissans or any '95 vehicle had a choke! SignatureRob Munach, PE Excel Engineering PO Box 1264 Carrboro, NC 27510 >>>> The noise is not heard when the engine >>>> is first started and the enigne will tach up quickly as normal but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> If it starts without choke it's rich. >I didn't know '95 Nissans or any '95 vehicle had a choke! I had the exact same problem with my 240sx, but it was an '89. I eventually got a timing light and found that not only the distributor was off, but as well someone before me installed the oil pump a few degrees off. I had to reinstall the oil pump, then use the timing light to fix the timing, after that I also had a problem with loud ticking with the valves, and found the timing chain was also off. Whoever had the car before me was a retard... hope this helps. >>>>> The noise is not heard when the engine >>>>> is first started and the enigne will tach up quickly as normal but [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > was off, but as well someone before me installed the oil pump a few > degrees off. Waste of your breath. I explained this same thing to him DOZENS of times, he's not interested in listening.. Steve http://www.atlantaracing.com |
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