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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / August 2005Diesel vs. gasoline??
Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all my life. Why is that 95% of passenger cars in the US are gasoline, yet diesel used in much of Europe? I read somewhere diesel is more efficient, plus unlike gas engine even UNMODIFIED diesel unit can run on "biofuels" (filtered cooking, etc. natural oils), so why diesel not dominating the market? I thought it's even cheaper? However, my primary question is: Is it true Diesel engine causes a much worse pollution, especiall;y carcerogenic (CANCER-causing) exhaust?? If so that would answer questions above. But again I thought new diesels burn as clean as gasoline? I wouldn't bother with all this, if it wasn't for the growing interest in biofuels and several people said "cooking oil", etc. works ONLY in diesel engines, it will NOT run in gasoline - dont even try. Thanks for your time, I might answer your electrical questions in the future, who knows... so it's not a waste of your time. > Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all my > life. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > etc. natural oils), so why diesel not dominating the market? I thought it's > even cheaper? Everything I am about to say is strictly my opinion. I think one of the reasons that diesels are more popular in Europe is that the price of fuel in Europe is roughly twice, or more, of what we pay here. There are other regional reasons, like cheaper taxes in some EU countries for diesels compared to gasoline engines. There is also a perception problem here. Back in the seventies, GM unleashed a diesel that was essentially a converted small block Chevy motor, and its reliability record was pretty bad. When you take in to consideration the savings in fuel mileage, the higher cost of a diesel compared to gas motor for most vehicles where both motors are available, and the difference in fuel costs here in the US, I would imagine you would have to drive a diesel car for many years before the cost benefit ratio would tilt toward the diesel. So the economics are not there, particularly when you also consider the smell and clatter of a diesel. I think the price per gallon of gasoline will have to get above $3, and stay there permanently, before diesel popularity will become significant. And that assumes the manufacturers can solve the emissions problems. Thanks, i got several responses on rec.autos.tech and one mentioned GM experiement that went wrong (and poisoned US diesel market forever) i.e. something you mentioned also; while another categorically denied GM's the reason and blaming diesel slow acceleration/start/noise and pollution (which is a strong factor to me, being an evironmentalist who doesnt want to die from cancer) as the reason of low acceptance here in the U.S. My opinion is almost formed: I hate the pollution part, but I am not interested in diesel for itself but rather to use cooking oil/biofuels that only run in diesel engines, pollution from burning cooking oil is no worse than from gasoline I guess - might be even cleaner. So if I get extra money probably will buy used diesel unit and start experimenting with cooking oil. The idea of driving on used cooking oil, spelling like Frnech fries and paying less $ is crazy, I must try it >So if I get extra > money probably will buy used diesel unit and start experimenting with > cooking oil. The idea of driving on used cooking oil, smelling like French > fries and paying less $ is crazy, I must try it It's not as simple as pouring cooking oil in the tank. Do some searches on biodiesel...  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com I did and have two excellend PDF's (files) on it, also best book on it. SO I know it's not easy to start but if you own a house, a vehicle you'd not mind to destroy - I am a technology freak and would like to play with this notion of running on used cooking oil!! Except one problem: in the States gasoline is still such a bargain vs. Europe and cooking oil is a bit pricey, that any financial gain seems doubtful, the purpose here would be not as much dollars as cutting pollution to zero. I suspect some of the highest cancer rates on Long Island, NJ, etc is caused by everybody driving. I live in NYC, you'd think more poolution - but suprisingly NO, our people have better health, it's a paradox but now I think because everyone riding subways and public transportaion not inhaling nasty toxic fumes. smelling, not spelling Can't answer your carcerogenic question or weather you can burn cooking oil, but I do know what you save in fuel economy in a diesel V/S gasoline that savings is ate up in repairs and maintance. It cost more to maintain a diesel, fuel filters, #1 or blended fuel in the winter so the #2 fuel won't gell up. Repair parts are more expensive also. Tom > Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation all > my life. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks for your time, I might answer your electrical questions in the > future, who knows... so it's not a waste of your time. Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a technology freak (and professional engineer, but not autos), so you say maintenance is costly... i will probably abandon this diesel project. My primary vehicle is 2004 Nissan Sentra (thats why posted here), amazing feul efficiency - probably no need to spend time experimenting with cooking oils if you say diesel is such a pain. What I did in Sentra is starightforward: reduced weight, using drastic measures most people wouldn't consider, even spare tire is removed to reduce weight (I am covered by 2-year Nissan Security+/roadside assistance accross USA/Canada and even Alaska), I removed such tiny things as passenger's sunvisor, jack, ONE WHOLE SEAT (rear/passenger side), mats (use 100% cotton thick bath towel), this is crazy but I get amazing mileage so probably this whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh > Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get > extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW > or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh Mark If you have a good source of used cooking oil that is changed regurlarly and isnt contaminated with too much other fats or water, then get yourself a diesel. Over her in England there are commercial companies that refine the cooking oil and sell it as biodiesel. The exhaust from a biodiesel car is cleaner than that of a normal diesel and has far less toxins, the noise of the engine is reduced and so on. I have used pure vegetable oil in my tank as it is cheaper for a litre of veg oil from the supermarket than it is for a litre of diesel from the pump !! (49p as opposed to 89p) Another factor is the matter of the diesel engine, it is a much stronger built engine than a petrol and will last a lot longer if looked after, giving you more time to make lots of saving with all the cheap miles. Anyway I could go on for ever but here are a couple of sites for you to look at and make your mind up from there. http://www.distributiondrive.com/products%20biodiesel.html http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html Brian > Mark > If you have a good source of used cooking oil that is changed regurlarly and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > as it is cheaper for a litre of veg oil from the supermarket than it is for > a litre of diesel from the pump !! <snip> Don't let the taxman hear you. It's illegal to recycle used cooking oil as road fuel - unless you pay the tax that makes ordinary diesel so expensive. Andy > Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get > extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW > or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh Hi Mark, Here in England I drive a Nissan Primera 2.2 diesel turbo. The performance is fine, it just doesn't have the same rush of acceleration from rest that you can get by revving a petrol engine really hard. The main reason I bought it is fuel economy, fuel is so expensive over here, it's over 4UKP per gallon. Diesel is slightly dearer than petrol but I get about 52mpg compared to a petrol engine in the same type of car would give about 35-40mpg. What mpg are you acheiving in your stripped down Sentra? I can approach 42mpg on a highway (and good driving style), city would be 33-35. The nominal specification posted on "2004 Nissan Sentra" was 29 city/35highway (2005 model I saw, same city but 34 highway) which is always inflated. Don't know about Europe, but here in the States it's a Fedral requirement to post mileage on window sticker of all new cars (for sale) but the real figure is always a few miles less as manufacturers hype their figures, e.g. using best gas/best driving style/light load, etc. while in real world mileage is always less. Also did I mention replacing standard/stock steel wheels (rims) with light but very strong Aluminum alloy? This reduces unsprung weight - better acceleration/breaking hence fuel efrfciency, of course a minor improvement but every minor thing counts. For some reason you Europeans makes best and probably all alloys I ever seen, mine are British/German? - TSW wheels, Europe's highest TUV rating for structural integrity and still lighter than steel. My boss is flying to his motherland again this week - Croatia, and always gets amazed at euro gas prices, mind boggling. I'd rather bicycle. I am getting 38 mpg in my 2005 sentra 1.8, nothing removed or modified but I do mostly highway driving, 100 miles a day. I have 3500 miles on it and or at 5000 I am changing over to synthetic oil Mobil 1 5w30 hopefully that may buy me another mpg. My biggest bitch is the location of the oil filter and the gouging that Nissan does when you try to buy a shop manual $300- that is criminal ! >I can approach 42mpg on a highway (and good driving style), city would be >33-35. The nominal specification posted on "2004 Nissan Sentra" was 29 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > My boss is flying to his motherland again this week - Croatia, and always > gets amazed at euro gas prices, mind boggling. I'd rather bicycle. shop manuals are on Ebay, I have mine 2004 Sentras and haynes said new manual's out Fall2055 (this year, wait until fall) what they've now covers upt year 1999. So two things: Ebay + haynes, also Chilton mumbled something in email... plus Helmsinc.com, plus others i have many many manuls and even 2004 sentra parts list and prices per part. Just to let you know spending $300 on shop manual is pure insanity unless you're RICH. >it is fuel economy, fuel is so expensive over here, it's over 4UKP per Isn't that something like $6.40 US? >> it is fuel economy, fuel is so expensive over here, it's over 4UKP per > > Isn't that something like $6.40 US? Nope, the dollar is collapsing. It's USD7.6388 according to Yahoo today. Andy >>> it is fuel economy, fuel is so expensive over here, it's over 4UKP per >> >> Isn't that something like $6.40 US? > > Nope, the dollar is collapsing. It's USD7.6388 according to Yahoo today. That is just incredible. Even half that over here would get a few people to park their SUVs. do some research on diesel pollution vs. gas pollution, I believe gas engines for same engine displacement has less overall pollutants harmful to ozone. The black soot is a thing of the old diesels. For the home consumer and most over the road trucks you don't have to worry much about what fuel to pump, they have it already mixed for the season at the pump. Diesels make less horse power but more torque than equal sized gas motors. get on average better fuel mileage. And go a little longer before big maintenance but a little more costly. in Europe gas is double the price of diesel. the current diesel cars in the version won't run on the diesel we have here because it is not refined well enough here and too much sulfur content but that should change soon. Ford has to truck US diesel into Mexico for its diesels because their diesel is even worse. > Thanks for another input/response. Wanted to try used diesel if I get > extra money, to experiement with cooking oil as fuel - myself being a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > whole diesel project needs to be stopped unless I find someone offering VW > or Volvo diesel for $500 heheh > Know nothing of cars (electrical person) - used public transportation > all my life. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks for your time, I might answer your electrical questions in the > future, who knows... so it's not a waste of your time. Howdy Mark Know anything about a Electro Optic Modulation Systems? AO systems? Pockel cells? I've wondered for quit some time now, how many photons i could squeeze into a fair sized pockel cell (grown in space, a bit larger then what we can make here) that was cooled by the slightly above 0 Kelvin of space. OK guys man the photon torpedos. About land vehicles, Why direct diesel power. Why not Hybrid. Diesel genny charging the Batts. Batt. power to the motor (motors). Possible to slap a motor on each wheel. Computer controled current distribution. Brings up the question of DC or AC. DC would not need an invertor, but starts would draw some high Amps. AC would need an invertor, but you could phase shift the low draw at low power needs when up to speed. Just a few random thoughts of a retired EE who put himself through college by working as a wrench. BTW i've seen the chevy 6 banger go from a 216 and 1/2 to a 235 to a 250 and up. The nissan 2L (L20B to Z20) go from damn nice main and rod bearings to somewhat smaller ID bearings. i don't really think that the MTBF was increased by these moves. SignatureThrockmorton P. Ruddygore My question dates back to several months ago, JESUS people still responding Electro-optic modulation systems I have no time to respond to, as of Hybrids, iam tired to repeat - it is NOT a permanent solution, it's a transitional solution because: 1. Fossil fuel (gasoline, whatever) still dominates its drivetrain 2. Batteries at the end of life (EOL) themselves cause enormous pollution (lead/heavy metals, acids) 3. The gain in fuel efficiency is marginal comparing to $$$ inverstment 4. System complexity i.e. dual-engine translates into higher failure rates, costlier repairs, and I could continue on an don bu tjust one example: When removing humans from a chashed hybrid, rescue workers are at a very high danger to be electricuted by residue high voltage, incl batteries as this i snot a convcentional 12-volt system, so they use special hacking tools to cut throuh, I mean... it's not a solution as pres. Bush pointe dout wwe need a radically new drivetrain of which Hydrogen is the only solution in my humble opinion, anyway I had th eanswer for diesels long ago now, my quest dates back to several month sago so I no longer need any reploies, for crack's sake. Diesel pollutes mor ethan gasoline, and thats my conclusion why it's not as widespread in the US as in Europe, Europeans have no choice, fuel costs are so high they close eyes on highe rpollution, you see French gas is leade, etc, etc i am from Russia so I know this stinkig problem would be a disaster had they have as many cars as we do, good thing Euro mass transit is much better developed and lots of peoples get around by trains o rjust cant afford a personal car, so pollution not killing... yet but diesel is a killer, exhaust proven to be MORE carcirogeniic than gasoline I am proud of the fact my Nissan Sentra is a PZEV vehicle (partially zero-emissions vehicle), it doesn teven smell and when idle all i see is warm air from exhaust pipe, clean, also I buy ony premium gas 93 octane |
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