Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us
Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network
HomeAnnouncements
Discussion Groups
By Brand
BMWChevroletDodgeFordGMHondaLexusMercedes-BenzNissanPeugeotToyotaVolkswagenOther Brands
By Topic
4x4 CarsRVsDrivingMaintenance & RepairCar AudioCollectible Cars
Country Specific
Australian ForumsUK Forums
ArticlesAuto InsuranceBuyingCars & TechnologyMaintenanceMiscellaneousSafety
DMV Resources
Related Topics
MotorcyclesBoatsMore Topics ...

Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / June 2005

Tip: Looking for answers? Try searching our database.

Pls help, need advice w/ startup noise

Thread view: 
Enable EMail Alerts  Start New Thread
Thread rating: 
JM - 09 Jun 2005 23:58 GMT
My 99 Altima (93,000 km) has had a tapping sound for the first few seconds
when I start it cold since I got it.  In the warmer weather it seems more
apparent immediately after startup.
I've had the dealer listen for it a few times now, but they've never been
able to hear anything unusual.  That's understandable partly because it
usually doesn't happen unless the car's been sitting for some time, although
it can be a little hit-and-miss as to when it does it and when it doesn't.

Within 3 seconds or so of starting, the sound is usually almost totally
gone, but I can often hear a slight tap for a while after startup.  In the
winter, I could hear a tapping as I drove when the revs approached 2,000 rpm
for the first few minutes of driving, and during cooler weather (say less
than 10 degrees C) I can often hear a bit of a tapping/rattling sound around
2500 rpm under moderate throttle.  This may or may not be related
(obviously, I'm just guessing here).

Also, if I put my ear down close to the valve cover, on the flywheel side of
the engine, toward the front (exhaust) valves, I can hear a tapping in that
location that is louder than anywhere else under the valve cover, *and* it
sounds pretty similar to the startup tapping.  I haven't yet been able to
get someone to start the car while I listen there to see if that's where the
sound is coming from on startup.

What's really got me thinking it's a valve adjustment problem is that a few
times now I've pulled the fuel pump fuse and cranked the starter over for
5-10 seconds to get the oil circulating and see if I still got the tapping.
So far I have not heard it after doing this.

What I'm wondering is:

- Is there anything other than a valve out of adjustment that might act and
sound like this?
- I've heard many times that solid lifters never need adjusting, but the
manual suggests adjusting them if they are noisy, is this uncommon?
- Am I likely to be doing any damage if there is that much play in one of
the valves?
- Can I check the valve clearances in the driveway with a feeler gauge if I
pull the valve cover?
- Should I go to the dealer and ask them to check/adjust the valves and is
that a time consuming (ie expensive) job?

I'd really like to clear up the startup noise just to see if the other
noises I mentioned go away -- that would ease my paranoia a fair bit :)

Thanks for any suggestions.
NoNoBadDog! - 10 Jun 2005 00:31 GMT
> My 99 Altima (93,000 km) has had a tapping sound for the first few seconds
> when I start it cold since I got it.  In the warmer weather it seems more
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.

Definitely sounds like a lifter or valve problem...no lubrication at
startup, so they are noisy.  As the oil is pressurized and brought up, the
lubrication quiets them.  Adjustment seems in order, as well as ensuring
that the right weight of motor oil is being used for your climate.

Bobby
Sly - 10 Jun 2005 00:46 GMT
pathfinders had a similar noise that was due to broken exhaust studs, noise
at start up and gone when warm

> My 99 Altima (93,000 km) has had a tapping sound for the first few seconds
> when I start it cold since I got it.  In the warmer weather it seems more
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
Peter Hill - 10 Jun 2005 18:20 GMT
>My 99 Altima (93,000 km) has had a tapping sound for the first few seconds
>when I start it cold since I got it.  In the warmer weather it seems more
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
>Thanks for any suggestions.

I assume this is a KA24DE engine.

Could be valve lifters.  If it's quieter after an oil change and gets
worse after a 1000 or so miles change the oil more often.  They are
hydraulic and they get sticky with coke and varnish, they are not
adjustable.  Other than more regular oil changes a dose of Wynns "stop
rattle" may help, or a pint of ATF in the oil for 100 gentle miles
before an oil change may clean them up.  Some people have had success
with ultrasonic cleaning in paraffin..  You may be able find which
ones are making the noise by using a spanner on the pulley bolt to set
the engine to TCD on each cylinder on successive nights.  Next morning
before starting you need to remove the cam cover, note which valves
are fully open, then rotate the engine 360 degrees and check what the
clearance is between those lifters/followers and cam.  Any that have
larger clearances need replacing.  If you have to get someone to do
your engine work then it's not cost effective to try this and full
lifter set replacement is cheaper.  Once they start rattling when warm
the only real cure is new lifters and it needs doing as soon as
possible.  It's OK to rattle for a few secs when cold but rattle when
warm means the cam is getting hammered all the time and it will wear
out so the cost of repair increases to about double what it would cost
to just do lifters and save the camshaft

Rattle when hot or cold when engine is revved up to 2500rpm and is
louder as allowed to drop back to idle = big ends.  Always seems to be
coming from top end of Nissans as cam covers amplify it, so it gets
called "cam knock".

Variable valve timing is another souce of rattle.

Get a long rod or dowel and use it to listen to various parts of the
engine.  You place one end against the fleshy part of your ear and the
other on the part you want to listen to.
Sly - 10 Jun 2005 20:15 GMT
dumping in a can of seafoam may help too

> >My 99 Altima (93,000 km) has had a tapping sound for the first few seconds
> >when I start it cold since I got it.  In the warmer weather it seems more
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
> engine.  You place one end against the fleshy part of your ear and the
> other on the part you want to listen to.
JM - 11 Jun 2005 01:06 GMT
> I assume this is a KA24DE engine.

Yes.

> Could be valve lifters.  If it's quieter after an oil change and gets
> worse after a 1000 or so miles change the oil more often.  They are
> hydraulic and they get sticky with coke and varnish, they are not
> adjustable.  Other than more regular oil changes a dose of Wynns "stop

Actually this engine has solid lifters, and they are adjustable with shims.
Says so right in the service manual.
Maybe they went to hydraulic lifters in a later model?

I'm considering just pulling the valve cover and checking the clearances
myself just so that I know if this
is the problem...  sounds simple enough to do.

> Rattle when hot or cold when engine is revved up to 2500rpm and is
> louder as allowed to drop back to idle = big ends.  Always seems to be
> coming from top end of Nissans as cam covers amplify it, so it gets
> called "cam knock".

Hmm, I don't think it's (hope it isn't) that, because I don't hear it when
revving down.  It also seems to be limited to a very narrow range of rpms,
any lower or higher and it's not there.. or at least not loudly enough to be
heard.

The weird thing about this 2nd sound is it is more dependent on outside air
temp than engine temp.  With a hot engine in the winter, I could still hear
it pretty easily, but now in the warmer
weather, it's usually not noticeable even with the engine totally cold.
Does that make any sense???
Devin & Marie - 14 Jun 2005 16:49 GMT
Sometimes the start up tapping is due to no oil in the heads. The oil pump
takes a few seconds to get the oil to the valves, common on Nissan 3.3L
motors. I have had success in reducing this tapping by using a higher grade
oil filter with a valve to keep the oil from draining through the oil filter
when the engine is not running. This keeps some oil in the heads while the
engine is off. Have you been using the same oil filter, or taking your car
to the same oil change shop? If so, take a look into changing oil filter
brands.
JM - 15 Jun 2005 00:19 GMT
Well I've been getting my changes done at the dealer, where I had them done
in my 94.  They use Nissan filters and I'm not sure what oil, but I guess it
couldn't hurt to try somewhere else to see if it makes any difference.

I had someone else start the car the other day and the sound seems to be
coming from somewhere lower than the cylinder head...  sounds like from the
general direction of the oil pan and drive belts.
I was under the car poking around in that area because the oil pan seems to
be leaking a little bit of oil, and noticed that the idler pulley for the
A/C belt has a fair bit of slop in it if I wiggle it left and right by hand.
I half wondered if that might be the sound, but I think that's unlikely just
because it is so regular while it's happening and I don't know why it would
gradually fade away in that case.  I guess it would be pretty simple to test
it by taking that belt off temporarily, so I might give that a try at some
point.

Thanks for the reply.

> Sometimes the start up tapping is due to no oil in the heads. The oil pump
> takes a few seconds to get the oil to the valves, common on Nissan 3.3L
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> to the same oil change shop? If so, take a look into changing oil filter
> brands.
 
Sign In
Join
My Latest Posts
My Monitored Threads
My Blog
My Photo Gallery
My Profile
My Homepage

Start New Thread
Enable EMail Alerts
Rate this Thread



©2008 Advenet LLC   Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.