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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / March 2006'89 240SX bizarre electrical "gremlins"
'89 240SX, KA24E engine, 5speed tranny... About 140k miles. Replaced the timing chain last summer, been running great since. Smog notice comes in the mail (CA car) and of course, since it's got to be smogged, the gremlins come out in force. Symptoms: Tach needle either doesn't move or jumps. Turn signals don't blink. Stereo sometimes powers up, sometimes doesn't. Shoulder harness attachment sometimes doesn't move along the door frame Idle is very rough. but runs great otherwise - I can get the rear tires to "bark" going into third gear and it accelerates very well.. How is the tach driven? By a signal from the distributor? I've read a lot about distributors failing around 140-150k miles and wonder if this is the case here. Would a failing dist cause the other problems? Anyone know where I can find a wiring diagram online or a service manual that's got one? Thx! > '89 240SX, KA24E engine, 5speed tranny... About 140k miles. Replaced > the timing chain last summer, been running great since. Smog notice [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Symptoms: Tach needle either doesn't move or jumps. Turn signals > don't blink. Stereo sometimes powers up, sometimes doesn't. I'd be pulling the radio and looking at the butchered wiring if it's not a factory radio. Most electrical problems arise from "free" radio installs. > How is the tach driven? By the computer  SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> '89 240SX, KA24E engine, 5speed tranny... About 140k miles. Replaced >> the timing chain last summer, been running great since. Smog notice [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >I'd be pulling the radio and looking at the butchered wiring if it's not a >factory radio. Most electrical problems arise from "free" radio installs. I'll take a look. I installed the stereo about 10 years ago and it's been working just fine until very recently. Shouldn't take too long to pull and double check everything. >> How is the tach driven? > >By the computer ok, thx HI, I had simailar electrical problems with my 90 240sx, it turned out to be an Altenator problem. Get the Altenator checked to make sure it is pumping out the corect volts. That might be the solution. > >> '89 240SX, KA24E engine, 5speed tranny... About 140k miles. Replaced > >> the timing chain last summer, been running great since. Smog notice [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > ok, thx > HI, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> >>ok, thx I should have mentioned the alternator, too. Before replacing it, try simply cleaning all of its contacts. CD >HI, > >I had simailar electrical problems with my 90 240sx, it turned out to >be an Altenator problem. Get the Altenator checked to make sure it is >pumping out the corect volts. I'm kinda leaning towards this. This morning I noticed two new symptoms.. 1) Under hard acceleration or hard left turns, the wipers turn on and cycle twice before going to their "reast" position. 2) The A/C fan changes speed with the engine. The faster the engine spins, the more she blows. Doing some reading last night a lot of folks with similar problems mentioned bad alternators or bad grounds. There was also some mention of a "trigger" wire off the alternator. Dunno WTF that is, but will check all alternator connections tonight when I get home. The good news is I forgot how much fun this thing is to drive.. I'm gonna need new rear tires by the end of the week at this pace. hehehe >>HI, >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Doing some reading last night a lot of folks with similar problems > mentioned bad alternators or bad grounds. Bad grounds can do all sorts of weird things. The "wiper" thing is starting to sound like a bad ground somewhere. SignatureSteve http://www.atlantaracing.com >> Doing some reading last night a lot of folks with similar problems >> mentioned bad alternators or bad grounds. > >Bad grounds can do all sorts of weird things. The "wiper" thing is starting >to sound like a bad ground somewhere. OK, two hours under the hood and I can't find a bad ground anywhere. Everything checked out at 2 ohms or less for resistance. I pulled apart all the connectors on the engine harness that I can reach and checked 'em for corrosion. All looked clean and nothing obviously loose or frayed. Alternator seems suspect. Output voltage is right around 12.8v immediately after start - seems a bit low but not sure with this car. New symptom popped up last night. Headlights work, but now won't retract and the stereo doesn't power up at all anymore. Haven't pulled it to check behind it yet. Man I hate troubleshooting car electrical systems.... >>>Doing some reading last night a lot of folks with similar problems >>>mentioned bad alternators or bad grounds. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Man I hate troubleshooting car electrical systems.... That's probably due to the battery slowly dying from not being charged properly from the ALT. Don't waste time on your dash. Your electrical problem is something that affects everything, not just the radio. CD >>>> Doing some reading last night a lot of folks with similar problems >>>> mentioned bad alternators or bad grounds. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > CD Just a thought here, --- If the battery can start the car satisfactorily each day, then chances are that the altenator and batter are both OK, although 12.8V does sound low. Try measuring the voltage after a few minutes of running. A good battery on charge should be about 13.8V. >Just a thought here, --- If the battery can start the car satisfactorily >each day, then chances are that the altenator and batter are both OK, >although 12.8V does sound low. Try measuring the voltage after a few >minutes of running. A good battery on charge should be about 13.8V. Yeah, it does start, but seems to crank slower than I remember (I didn't drive this thing much at all over the past 3 years so don't remember it's "quirks") Drove home from work, (1.3 miles - 'bout 5 mins from start to park) parked in the driveway and grabbed the meter without shutting down. 11.8v on the battery at idle.. I'm going to pull the alternator this weekend and see WTF it's really doing on the bench. Hopefully it's something simple like an alternator/battery. Went out to get the "possessed" car smogged at lunch. Failed w/ high NOx but a quick peek under the hood revealed a couple EGR hoses that had crumbled under the intake - will replace those and retest - should be fine as the rest of the specs were passed with large margins. While I was there, I noticed the shop had an electrical system tester so asked 'em to hook it up. Alternator is struggling to put out 9 amps so I'm amazed it's kept the battery charged. Going to pick up a new alternator and see what that does. Crossing my fingers.... Picked up the car today. Old alternator was really hammered. Mounting holes were egg shaped and the pulley was really out of round. Lots of play in the bearings/bushings as well. When it let go it popped one of the 75A fuses so something shorted when it went. Dash cluster is working fine, tach no longer jumps, wipers wipe only when you ask 'em to and the turn signals and headlights work normally. Only remaining problems are: Stereo doesn't power up. Door "dinger" doesn't "ding" when the key is inserted in the ignition and the door is open Shoulder harness doesn't retract automatically. A/C fan doesn't blow, but the A/C is producing cold air. Cigarette lighter doesn't work (No biggy 'cuz I don't smoke) I haven't checked fuses yet but will dive into that later in the week. After pretty much ripping the dash out of the car and tracing seveal billion miles of wires, I've pretty much got the little beasty figured out. A few problems remain: Shoulder belt retractor sometimes doesn't move - appears to be a bad door switch on the driver's side door, but just holding it down doesn't make the retractor move. Closing the door does. Is there another switch inside the door? Clock won't hold time/doesn't display at times. When it does display, it "fades" into view and always displays 1:08 when it does. Can't find anything wrong with power getting to the gauge cluster and all the gauges and lights work great now. Blower motor ate both 15A fuses due to a short behind the stereo. Fixed the short, replaced the fuses, good to go. A/C blows super cold.. Cigarette lighter socket not getting power - don't care 'cuz I don't smoke, but it'd be good to have power there to charge my cellphone. Haven't dug into the center console much to diagnose. Stereo is toast. Switched/continuous power is working fine, but head unit won't power up, even on the bench. No obvious shorts that might be killing anything else. Door chime still doesn't sound when key is inserted in the ignition. Other than that, it's all working and fun as hell to drive. Any ideas (or a wiring diagram - got one for a '94 - are they the same?) as to where to poke around next would be appreciated! Anyone know the best place to find a turbo "kit" (KA24E engine) and big brakes? Can the S14 front end be easily bolted on this '89 model or am I "stuck" with the S13? Thanks! The OTHER Kevin in San Diego cried out > After pretty much ripping the dash out of the car and tracing > seveal billion miles of wires, I've pretty much got the little [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > Thanks! as for the door switches, on my 91 sentra there is another switch on the latch inside the door that controls the seat belts i checked it by holding the jamb switch and then using a screw driver to push the latch mechanism in as if the door had been closed, you have to push it in pretty far for the seatbelt to move, let it go just a lil and the seat belt retracts >as for the door switches, on my 91 sentra there is another switch on >the latch inside the door that controls the seat belts i checked it >by holding the jamb switch and then using a screw driver to push the >latch mechanism in as if the door had been closed, you have to push >it in pretty far for the seatbelt to move, let it go just a lil and >the seat belt retracts Kinda figured as much... Thx! >>> Doing some reading last night a lot of folks with similar problems >>> mentioned bad alternators or bad grounds. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Man I hate troubleshooting car electrical systems.... Runing at 1500rpm with lights on between 13 and 15v is normal. At 140K miles the brushes are first suspect. Dead cheap DIY job if you can solder and find someone that sells brushes. Most places want you to pay for a re-con, when all they have done is test the windings, diodes, reg, clean it, polish the slip rings and fit new brushes. -- Peter Hill Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header Can of worms - what every fisherman wants. Can of worms - what every PC owner gets! >Runing at 1500rpm with lights on between 13 and 15v is normal. Checked at idle tonight. 11.81v and when I ran it up, the voltage dropped a few tenths.. >At 140K miles the brushes are first suspect. Dead cheap DIY job if >you can solder and find someone that sells brushes. Most places want >you to pay for a re-con, when all they have done is test the windings, >diodes, reg, clean it, polish the slip rings and fit new brushes. I can definitely solder. Any ideas where to find brushes??? any auto electric shop should have the right ones for about $4-5. Sometimes easier to remove the existing ones and bring them in, then they can match the sizes up. t >>Runing at 1500rpm with lights on between 13 and 15v is normal. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >I can definitely solder. Any ideas where to find brushes??? >any auto electric shop should have the right ones for about $4-5. Sometimes >easier to remove the existing ones and bring them in, then they can match the >sizes up. Moot point now. Alternator literally cooked itself today on the way to the gym.. Got fed up with it and shipped it off to my mechanic for replacement. Should be ready to go in a couple hours. Hopefully that'll rectify the problems it's been having. With my luck the battery is toast as well.. >>any auto electric shop should have the right ones for about $4-5. Sometimes >>easier to remove the existing ones and bring them in, then they can match the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > With my luck the battery is toast as well.. Battery conditon can be improved by charging and discharging through several cycles provided sulphation has not occurred through excessive discharging. From the voltage of 11.8 you mentioned I would say you don't have a problem with the battery. > any auto electric shop should have the right ones for about $4-5. Sometimes > easier to remove the existing ones and bring them in, then they can match the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >>I can definitely solder. Any ideas where to find brushes??? If you can't get the exact size, then over-sized brushes can be filed down. > '89 240SX, KA24E engine, 5speed tranny... About 140k miles. Replaced > the timing chain last summer, been running great since. Smog notice [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thx! Check the + connection to the battery. There should be 2 connections. One is a thick red wire. Ignore that one. The other one may be piggybacking off of the big red wire, and goes to other accerories etc. It may be corroded. Check and thoroughly clean those connections. CD |
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