Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / January 2008
lost my car keys
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don - 27 Oct 2007 05:31 GMT I have a Nissan 2000 Altima and I lost my keys - could a regular locksmith make a key for it? If I give a dealer my VIN would they be able to make a key? What is the best way to handle this problem? Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called them yet.
: P - 27 Oct 2007 06:05 GMT don't you have a 2nd key? all the cars I've ever had came with 2 at least 2 keys.
>I have a Nissan 2000 Altima and I lost my keys - could a regular locksmith >make a key for it? If I give a dealer my VIN would they be able to make a >key? What is the best way to handle this problem? > Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called > them yet. don - 27 Oct 2007 06:20 GMT no because I lost that key 2 years ago I think the key was too expensive
> don't you have a 2nd key? all the cars I've ever had came with 2 at least > 2 keys. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called >> them yet. system - 27 Oct 2007 13:49 GMT > I have a Nissan 2000 Altima and I lost my keys - could a regular locksmith > make a key for it? If I give a dealer my VIN would they be able to make a > key? What is the best way to handle this problem? > Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called them > yet. yes dealer can make keys by using your VIN # ,than the keys need to be programed.It is not cheap. I would call your neerest Nissan dealer and make arrangement with them. Good luck to you!
R J Talley - 27 Oct 2007 20:23 GMT OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is going to hit you up for over $130 for that key and programming. Can some inde locksmiths do it? Yes, but ....... again, it's gonna cost some serious bones; at least $80 and more likely the full $130. Sucks don't it?
Detroit charges a tad less but not much less. This programmed security crap is a giant scam to create a "key" monopoly. Oh well, what can a guy do except ....... Keep track of your friggen keys! :)
Been there, had that done to me.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
willshak - 27 Oct 2007 20:42 GMT on 10/27/2007 3:36 PM R J Talley said the following:
> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming > it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Been there, had that done to me. The door locks don't require the key codes. If you lock your keys in the car at some remote location, a non programmed spare key in your wallet (or purse) can at least unlock the doors.
 Signature Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Chuck Tribolet - 30 Oct 2007 02:30 GMT And a good AAA locksmith can get through the doors in an amazingly small amount of time. A couple of years ago I was diving at Pt. Lobos State Reserve, and some other fellow dumped his dive kayak and his dive gear, with the car key in it, sank. The AAA locksmith was in his car in about a minute, and took about 15 more minutes to make an ignition key.
Yes, you are supposed to have your gear tied off to the 'yak.
His dive gear was recovered about six months later. Dunno if the key still worked.
Older cars are even easier, IF you know what you are doing. About 1974 I went to a race at Laguna Seca with this girl I was dating. We took her '68ish Chevy monster-mobile, and she locked her keys in it. We dinked around with a coat hanger for about an hour, when this JD kid walks up and asks if he can try. Five seconds, no more. He hands the coat hanger back and just walks off.
> on 10/27/2007 3:36 PM R J Talley said the following: >> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The door locks don't require the key codes. If you lock your keys in the car at some remote location, a non programmed spare key > in your wallet (or purse) can at least unlock the doors. willshak - 30 Oct 2007 20:33 GMT on 10/29/2007 9:30 PM Chuck Tribolet said the following:
> And a good AAA locksmith can get through the doors in an amazingly small amount of time. > A couple of years ago I was diving at Pt. Lobos State Reserve, and some other fellow dumped [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > and just walks off. > A spare key is still cheaper.
> >> on 10/27/2007 3:36 PM R J Talley said the following: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >
 Signature Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY To email, remove the double zeroes after @
Jim Yanik - 27 Oct 2007 23:47 GMT > OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but > programming it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Been there, had that done to me. BUT,the programmed key DOES make it much harder for a thief to steal your car.I lost my 94 IntegraGS-R in June,if it had had the programmed key security,they would not have been able to start it and drive off with it.(before I put several rounds into them...)
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
still me - 28 Oct 2007 04:34 GMT >BUT,the programmed key DOES make it much harder for a thief to steal your >car.I lost my 94 IntegraGS-R in June,if it had had the programmed key >security,they would not have been able to start it and drive off with >it.(before I put several rounds into them...) You would have had drinks with them? Seems awfully sociable for someone who tried to steal your car.
NissTech - 31 Oct 2007 02:53 GMT Why does the dealer have you by the short curlies as you put it .
It wasn't the dealer fault they lost their keys, it was the vehicles owner.
The only thing the dealer is providing is a service, kind of like what a doctor or plumber does when you need him.
Pay a plumber to fix the leak ; pay the dealer to program the key.
So take your choice, a wet floor or a car you can't drive.
I guess you could shut the water off at the main completely but what does that accomplish, kind of like having a car but not being able to drive it.
> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming > it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Been there, had that done to me. R J Talley - 31 Oct 2007 03:27 GMT NissTech, spoken like a true dealer employee. Yes, losing the key is stupid. Yes one should keep track of the key but....charging $130 for a mass-produced item with no more than a $10 materials cost; max, and just a few minutes to program is usurious. If the dealership did not have a monopoly on both the code and the equipment to do the encoding the price would have to come way down. That this is a deliberate ploy on the part of those who make the machinery to create artificial monopolies and thus limit price elasticity is just more proof of the attitude car manufacturers take toward customers once the car has been driven off the showroom floor.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
Jim Yanik - 31 Oct 2007 03:42 GMT > Why does the dealer have you by the short curlies as you put it . > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> >> Been there, had that done to me. why should it cost $100 or more to program a key? Seems to me,when you buy the key from Nissan,they should program it for free,or at least a minimal charge.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
R J Talley - 31 Oct 2007 05:22 GMT The only thing the dealer is providing is a service, kind of like what
> a doctor or plumber does when you need him. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > does that accomplish, kind of like having a car but not being able to > drive it. Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them. Any monkey with guide book can cut and program a key. The time involved in training takes only minutes. The time involved in equipment a couple thousand at most and likely less in some cases. To charge $130 or more to make a key is robbery and nothing less. Any attempt to justify that is just plain irritating.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
: P - 31 Oct 2007 17:30 GMT > The only thing the dealer is providing is a service, kind of like what >> a doctor or plumber does when you need him. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > is robbery and nothing less. Any attempt to justify that is just plain > irritating. Stop harping on what the dealer is charging for the key programming. Plain and simple truth is you screwed up and lost your key, not once, but twice. You didn't learn to be more cautious after loosing the 1st key and I suspect at that time you looked into a replacement and found out about the cost back then. Otherwise you'd have gotten a replacement. Bite the bullet and count this as a lesson learned. Or just sell the car as is and let the new owner worry about getting a key.
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 00:48 GMT "Otherwise you'd have gotten a replacement. Bite the bullet and count this as a lesson learned. Or just sell the car as is and let the new owner worry about getting a key."
You know, I never said I lost my key. What happened is that I bought my Murano used and it came with only one key. When I asked the dealer about a spare, he then told me what it was going to cost. Of course, this entire conversation occurred after the deal had been inked. It was only then that he revealed that the only key he had was the Valet key. So, I was stuck and had to pony up the cost of another key. So I guess the guy who traded in the car was following your very thoughtful advice .... and let me worry about it.
I stand by what I said, $130 for a new key is robbery, plain and simple.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 01:23 GMT > "Otherwise you'd have gotten a replacement. Bite the bullet and count > this as a lesson learned. Or just sell the car as is and let the new > owner worry about getting a key." > > You know, I never said I lost my key. What happened is that I bought > my Murano used and it came with only one key. Same with my SE-R SpecV.(but not bought from a Nissan dealer)
> When I asked the dealer > about a spare, he then told me what it was going to cost. Of course, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I stand by what I said, $130 for a new key is robbery, plain and > simple. If that dealer was a Nissan dealer,he is dishonest,selling you a car with only a valet key. I would have written Nissan about him. I'd also let them know what I thought about their dealer programming charges after buying a new key.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 03:00 GMT I bought if from the Toyota dealer next door. When they refused to get me a second and proper key, I went to Nissan. Same story, no key unless I forked over $130 beans. Oh and did I forget, another $100 for the fob! I bought the fob from ebay for $20 and programmed it myself.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
Dave - 01 Nov 2007 08:24 GMT > If that dealer was a Nissan dealer,he is dishonest,selling you a car with > only a valet key. Perhaps not dishonest, but certainly not quite up front.
> I would have written Nissan about him. and expected them to do what?
First, it's a USED car. Second, dealers are independent businesses and the factory has little to no control over how they conduct business. Certainly they have no say about a USED car.
> I'd also let them know what I thought about their dealer programming > charges after buying a new key. see above. The market dictates the price. If people were not willing to pay it, the price would be lower.
BTW, they key for a Lexus is more ($400+) and you don't even want to ask about one for a Mercedes.
dave
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 21:07 GMT >> If that dealer was a Nissan dealer,he is dishonest,selling you a car >> with only a valet key. > > Perhaps not dishonest, but certainly not quite up front. Oh? you sign the deal,THEN he reveals there's important stuff missing. That's dishonest in my book. Also a bad business practice,that the national company should be made aware of.Ask them if that's the sort of representative they want to be associated with.
>> I would have written Nissan about him. > > and expected them to do what? > > First, it's a USED car. Second, dealers are independent businesses Franchises.(that can be revoked.)
> and the factory has little to no control over how they conduct > business. Certainly they have no say about a USED car. Sure they do.The national companies do care about negative letters they receive about a dealer. A bad rep can cost them new business. Those national companies often have "certified" used cars that they promise will be warrantied and a quality product.
> >> I'd also let them know what I thought about their dealer programming >> charges after buying a new key. > > see above. The market dictates the price. Not for replacement keys.You can't go elsewhere and get a key for the RFID keys;the programming is proprietary information. There's no market competition,thus the company "dictates" the price.You either buy it or do without.(which you can't,with a RFID key security system.)
> If people were not > willing to pay it, the price would be lower. There's no market competition,thus the company "dictates" the price.You either buy it or do without.(which you can't,with a RFID key security system.)
> BTW, they key for a Lexus is more ($400+) and you don't even want to > ask about one for a Mercedes. > > dave
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
still me - 01 Nov 2007 01:29 GMT >Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, likewise a >doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them. Any monkey with >guide book can cut and program a key. The time involved in training takes >only minutes. The time involved in equipment a couple thousand at most and >likely less in some cases. To charge $130 or more to make a key is robbery >and nothing less. Any attempt to justify that is just plain irritating. Really? Minutes? You've been trained to do it? Only a measly couple of thou for a modern key machine a and security system reprogrammer, eh? Priced one, have you? How about the training program? How many keys does the dealership have to make before they show $1 of profit on that device and the employee training (to say nothing of the fixed costs involved in simply running the business).
If you think it's such a rip off, then start your own business to do it. Design a business plan, pay the startup legal and finance costs, purchase the equipment, get the training, rent a building, buy insurance, hire employees, pay for advertising, etc. You'll probably need to purchase equipment from all the manufacturers so that you can pull enough customers through to make some money at it - so go look for some investors and guarantee them high returns for your high risk new business. Don't forget to budget for the Pepto Bismol you'll need around the one year point when you are losing money every month and you're worried about losing your house and wondering how you're going to buy x-mas presents for the kids.
I don't make excuses for the rip off dealership service departments have become. Plumbers are an even bigger ripoff. But, what _irritates me_ is when people don't think about the business costs and risks involved before they whine about the costs of getting something done. If you aren't able to do it yourself or willing to make the investment then you have to pay for someone who took the risk and made the investment.
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 02:39 GMT >>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, >>likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > device and the employee training (to say nothing of the fixed costs > involved in simply running the business). Do you believe that a business HAS to make a profit on EVERY service and/or part they sell? The dealerships have to know how to do that stuff and have that equipment just to satisfy warranty service.
Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their customers and develop brand loyalty.They can even write off such things. A person with a Nissan might decide to buy a different brand if they felt they were not getting a fair treatment from a Nissan dealer. Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things. Auto dealerships are NOT some "small business",and are highly profitable.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 03:10 GMT If you are selling a product that can cost upwards of $35K or more and it comes equipped with an essential part that is easily lost or damaged rendering the product useless, then providing a low-cost means of replacement is just plain good service.
The training involved in programming the key is next to nothing. I know this for a fact as I asked for and received an explanation from not only a Nissan tech, but also a certified locksmith (he makes keys for several makes of auto) who is part of my hunting club and a Ford service manager. Likewise, the basic key cutting machine is nothing special. The blanks come pre-chipped and ready to program from the automaker who in turn, buys them from one of a handful of manufacturers. The cost for the machinery is less than what it takes to buy a brake turning lathe. The total time invested in making a new key and programming it is under 20 minutes and closer to 10 minutes for a good tech. Again, verified by my inquiries to the afore mentioned men.
Your disgust and vitriol is misplaced. Aim it at the source of the problem, the auto company, not at me. R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
: P - 01 Nov 2007 04:39 GMT > If you are selling a product that can cost upwards of $35K or more and it > comes equipped with an essential part that is easily lost or damaged [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Teacher/James Madison Fellow > "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman "The cost for the machinery is less than what it takes to buy a brake turning lathe. " Would you mind stating what that price would be? I purchases a Used on car lathe for $1500, which was 10 years out of date. A new late would have set me back $5700. And you expect the keys to be given out free or at a ridiculously below cost price (parts/labor/equipment)?
Another thing, "If you are selling a product that can cost upwards of $35K or more and it comes equipped with an essential part that is easily lost or damaged rendering the product useless, then providing a low-cost means of replacement is just plain good service." Are you saying you purchased the Murano from a Toyota Dealer for $35K and expect the Nissan Dealer to make you a special deal? Why do you think that Toyota Dealer quoted a high price for the key? Didn't they need to get it from the Nissan Dealer? Nissan and Toyota are 2 entirely different companies with product lines that have nothing to do with the other. You simply purchased a car that was used as a trade-in, just as any other used car dealer does. BTW, I purchased my Murano NEW from a Nissan Dealer for $35K and it came will the 2 keys/fobs & a valet key. I'm skeptical you paid Toyota the $35K and are just quoting the new car price.
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 07:05 GMT :P you are simply not reading what I'm writing. Toyota refused to make the key. Actually, they told me the key and code was proprietary and only Nissan could provide it. They sent me to Nissan. Nissan quoted the price. It's Nissan that I am referring to when I talk of price gouging. I paid less than 19K for the Murano 2 years old with 32K on the clock. Not a bad deal but not a great deal either. The point sir, is that when selling high ticket items that have a built in potential for failure, I.e. lost keys, it would be a good thing if you provided customers with an affordable remedy for what is almost certainly going to be an issue with a predictable number of customers.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
Dave - 01 Nov 2007 08:35 GMT > :P you are simply not reading what I'm writing. Toyota refused to make the > key. Actually, they told me the key and code was proprietary and only Nissan [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > is almost certainly going to be an issue with a predictable number of > customers. sorry, but your bitch-fest is directed at the wrong people. #1 on your list is YOU, who was too f.cking STUPID to get the correct keys to begin with (deal or no deal, I don't get 2 keys with a car, tell the seller to go f.ck himself). #2 is the actual dealer you BOUGHT the USED car from, who BTW wasn't the Nissan dealer you're now trying to blame.
Do you really expect us to feel sorry for you?
dave
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 13:17 GMT Sorry for me? No, I'm not a victim and I'm not asking for either sympathy or pity. I'm simply stating an opinion. The automakers are gouging customers unnecessarily when it comes to replacement keys. It ought to be better.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
: P - 01 Nov 2007 18:16 GMT > Sorry for me? No, I'm not a victim and I'm not asking for either sympathy > or pity. I'm simply stating an opinion. The automakers are gouging > customers unnecessarily when it comes to replacement keys. It ought to be > better. I beg to differ. You may not asking for sympathy outright, but indirectly, that's exactly what you want. Going to the Nissan Dealer and asking them to give you a price break for a replacement key, when it's your fault for losing it. You wouldn't have posted here if they gave in, then again, the Dealer wouldn't be in business either since they'd be bankrupt for giving all their customers what they wanted for whatever price Joe Public demanded.
R J Talley - 02 Nov 2007 01:25 GMT OK guy, lets get it straight. I did not lose a key. The previous owner did or maybe the boys at Toyota either way, the fact that I was getting only the valet key was not revealed to me until after ALL of the papers had been signed.
Second, I did not, repeat did not ask for a deal or price break from the dealer. I chose to pay it. Now, I am complaining that the dealers charge far too much for these keys. They have created a technological monopoly and exploit it unfairly. That's my statement.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
: P - 01 Nov 2007 04:02 GMT >>>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, >>>likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things. > Auto dealerships are NOT some "small business",and are highly profitable. "Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their customers and develop brand loyalty." What hypocrisy, especially about Brand Loyalty. You stated "I bought if from the Toyota dealer next door." Then you have the nerve to gripe about the dealer price. If you had true Brand Loyalty, you'd have made your purchase from the Nissan Dealer, who'd probably back up the purchase and made sure you got the second key.
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 07:11 GMT >You stated "I bought if from the Toyota dealer next door." I said that, not Yanik. I bought the car from Toyota because that's where the car was. Nissan didn't have that car at that price. Shoot, I didn't care if it were a Nissan or a Toyota. I had in fact, been looking at Hondas when the Murano presented itself. The price was right so I bit.
>Then you have the nerve to gripe about the dealer price. If you had true >Brand Loyalty, you'd have made your purchase from the Nissan Dealer, who'd >probably back up the purchase and made sure you got the second key. I have no brand loyalty. I believe that Yanik was making the argument that I just might have developed some brand loyalty if Nissan had been a little more customer friendly and he may have been right. As it stands now, I have none. A car is a car is a car. Some are good, some are not. Some dealerships are less adversarial others are more.
You seem to be taking this awfully personally, almost to the point of irrationality. Why not step back from the keyboard, take a deep breath and calm down. You'll live longer and you just might make more sense.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 20:33 GMT >>>>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, >>>>likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What hypocrisy, especially about Brand Loyalty. You stated "I bought > if from the Toyota dealer next door." RJ said that,I didn't. I didn't know what dealer he bought his auto from. It still does not matter;no Nissan dealer should charge such exorbitant fees for such services.
> Then you have the nerve to gripe about the dealer price. If you had > true Brand Loyalty, you'd have made your purchase from the Nissan > Dealer, who'd probably back up the purchase and made sure you got the > second key. You must have trouble with your newsreader's attributes,you keep getting mixed up on who said what.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
Dave - 01 Nov 2007 08:30 GMT > Do you believe that a business HAS to make a profit on EVERY service and/or > part they sell? No, they should LOSE money on everything they sell, but make it up in volume.
> The dealerships have to know how to do that stuff and have that equipment > just to satisfy warranty service. why? When did losing a key become a warranty issue?
> Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide > service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their > customers and develop brand loyalty. Yeah, like consumers are loyal to a car dealership. What color is the sky on your planet?
> They can even write off such things. against the non-profit they make from selling at a loss.
> A person with a Nissan might decide to buy a different brand if they felt > they were not getting a fair treatment from a Nissan dealer. and a person with a (insert other brand name here) might buy a Nissan.
> Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things. HUH?
> Auto dealerships are NOT some "small business",and are highly profitable. Explain Oldsmobile to us? Or Plymouth? Or maybe Yugo.
How much did Ford LOSE this year? Or GM?
How many FEWER new car dealerships are there this year than last?
dave
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 20:54 GMT >> Do you believe that a business HAS to make a profit on EVERY service >> and/or part they sell? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > why? When did losing a key become a warranty issue? I've read of several new car owners having problems with programmed keys not working properly. Infant failures and the like. One does not have to LOSE a key to have key problems that would be covered under warranty.Even just ONE bad key has to be dealt with if under warranty,thus the need for support equipment.I suppose you believe that a dealer doesn't need to have such equipment if the key failure rates are low.They can just tell their customers to go somewhere else,with your reasoning;it's not profitable to have that equipment.
> >> Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide >> service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their >> customers and develop brand loyalty. > > Yeah, like consumers are loyal to a car dealership. Often,they are. I've bought new Hondas for decades.I would have again if 1;I had the money,2;they made anything I like,which they don't.
> What color is > the sky on your planet? > >> They can even write off such things. > > against the non-profit they make from selling at a loss. Oh,yeah,dealers always sell autos at a loss....I've never known any new auto dealership owner to be a poor man.
>> A person with a Nissan might decide to buy a different brand if they >> felt they were not getting a fair treatment from a Nissan dealer. > > and a person with a (insert other brand name here) might buy a > Nissan. Unless they read about such service treatment.Look at the domestic auto companies;they got a reputation for bad service at dealerships,and people began buying import cars instead.
>> Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Explain Oldsmobile to us? Made cars for old farts,couldn't make them at a low cost. also stuck with inflexible,costly union labor,a MAJOR disadvantage.
> Or Plymouth? Same labor problems.
> Or maybe Yugo. Just a junky product.
> How much did Ford LOSE this year? Or GM? they made vehicles people didn't want.
> How many FEWER new car dealerships are there this year than last? > > dave When money is tight due to rising costs,people spend less,keep cars longer.Or they trade in for more economical cars.
BTW,I've worked in a service industry,dealt with lots of customers,and compared to other company service centers,I had happier and more loyal customers,because I gave them good service and good treatment,kept their repair prices low. I often fixed instruments usually done by other service centers,and then those customers started sending all their equipment to me,and not their closer service center.
 Signature Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net
R J Talley - 02 Nov 2007 01:40 GMT Jim, those guys are obviously not listening or, they are shills for the industry or maybe they are trolls looking for a fight, who knows. I have a hard time believing that any reasonable person who has one iota of knowledge about the predatory nature of car sales could muster too much sympathy for the major carmakers. Dave and the other guy are coming across as blind apologists for an industry that views customers as cash-cows; opportunities to extract as much profit as possible depending on the person's ignorance, lack of bargaining skills, limited mental faculties, gullibility or down-right vanity. How many other items in life have no fixed price? Usually, the full price each must pay is stated right up front on a purchase. Not so with cars. Only a real neophyte pays the sticker price. Those with more education or business sense can find out the true dealer cost, delivered to the dealer, minus special dealer incentives and rewards and then offer a reasonable profit above that amount, say 6-10% to close the deal. Those without that skill or knowledge often pay much, much more. A case in point. Almost every dealership I've seen in CA has something called ADP added to the sticker price of all new cars. In many cases it's a couple of thousand dollars. ADP for those who don't know is an acronym for additional dealer profit. In other words, it is a huge chunk of junk fee added to the dealer's profit above and beyond his monthly sales bonus, the kick-back he gets on that model if any and the built in profit already on the sticker.
Oh well, car dealers are what they are because the public tolerates it. The really bad ones eventually do go out of business. The marginal ones just go on and on, raking in the bucks because we really have no alternative to the automobile and because the average Joe has no real idea how badly he's being fleeced.
 Signature R J Talley Teacher/James Madison Fellow "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
Alan - 27 Jan 2008 17:58 GMT > OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming > it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Been there, had that done to me. I've had 2 copied of my key made by local locksmiths for the purpose of getting my keys out in case of them being locked in. Neither worked with my 05 Altima.
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