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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / January 2008

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lost my car keys

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don - 27 Oct 2007 05:31 GMT
I have a Nissan 2000 Altima and I lost my keys - could a regular locksmith
make a key for it? If I give a dealer my VIN would they be able to make a
key? What is the best way to handle this problem?
Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called them
yet.
: P - 27 Oct 2007 06:05 GMT
don't you have a 2nd key? all the cars I've ever had came with 2 at least 2
keys.

>I have a Nissan 2000 Altima and I lost my keys - could a regular locksmith
>make a key for it? If I give a dealer my VIN would they be able to make a
>key? What is the best way to handle this problem?
> Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called
> them yet.
don - 27 Oct 2007 06:20 GMT
no because I lost that key 2 years ago
I think the key was too expensive

> don't you have a 2nd key? all the cars I've ever had came with 2 at least
> 2 keys.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>> Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called
>> them yet.
system - 27 Oct 2007 13:49 GMT
> I have a Nissan 2000 Altima and I lost my keys - could a regular locksmith
> make a key for it? If I give a dealer my VIN would they be able to make a
> key? What is the best way to handle this problem?
> Can my car be towed to a dealer? I have Triple A, but I have not called them
> yet.

yes dealer can make keys by using your VIN # ,than the keys need to be
programed.It is not cheap.
I would call your neerest Nissan dealer and make arrangement with
them.
Good luck to you!
R J Talley - 27 Oct 2007 20:23 GMT
OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming
it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is
going to hit you up for over $130 for that key and programming. Can some
inde locksmiths do it? Yes, but ....... again, it's gonna cost some serious
bones; at least $80 and more likely the full $130.  Sucks don't it?

Detroit charges a tad less but not much less. This programmed security crap
is a giant scam to create a "key" monopoly. Oh well, what can a guy do
except ....... Keep track of your friggen keys!  :)

Been there, had that done to me.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

willshak - 27 Oct 2007 20:42 GMT
on 10/27/2007 3:36 PM R J Talley said the following:
> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming
> it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Been there, had that done to me.

The door locks don't require the key codes. If you lock your keys in the
car at some remote location, a non programmed spare key in your wallet
(or purse) can at least unlock the doors.

Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Chuck Tribolet - 30 Oct 2007 02:30 GMT
And a good AAA locksmith can get through the doors in an amazingly small amount of time.
A couple of years ago I was diving at Pt. Lobos State Reserve, and some other fellow dumped
his dive kayak and his dive gear, with the car key in it, sank.  The AAA locksmith was in his
car in about a minute, and took about 15 more minutes to make an ignition key.

Yes, you are supposed to have your gear tied off to the 'yak.

His dive gear was recovered about six months later.  Dunno if the key still worked.

Older cars are even easier, IF you know what you are doing.  About 1974 I went to a race at
Laguna Seca with this girl I was dating.  We took her '68ish Chevy monster-mobile, and she
locked her keys in it.  We dinked around with a coat hanger for about an hour, when this JD
kid walks up and asks if he can try.  Five seconds, no more. He hands the coat hanger back
and just walks off.

> on 10/27/2007 3:36 PM R J Talley said the following:
>> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> The door locks don't require the key codes. If you lock your keys in the car at some remote location, a non programmed spare key
> in your wallet (or purse) can at least unlock the doors.
willshak - 30 Oct 2007 20:33 GMT
on 10/29/2007 9:30 PM Chuck Tribolet said the following:
> And a good AAA locksmith can get through the doors in an amazingly small amount of time.
> A couple of years ago I was diving at Pt. Lobos State Reserve, and some other fellow dumped
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> and just walks off.
>  

A spare key is still cheaper.

>  
>> on 10/27/2007 3:36 PM R J Talley said the following:
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
>  

Signature

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

Jim Yanik - 27 Oct 2007 23:47 GMT
> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but
> programming it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Been there, had that done to me.

BUT,the programmed key DOES make it much harder for a thief to steal your
car.I lost my 94 IntegraGS-R in June,if it had had the programmed key
security,they would not have been able to start it and drive off with
it.(before I put several rounds into them...)

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

still me - 28 Oct 2007 04:34 GMT
>BUT,the programmed key DOES make it much harder for a thief to steal your
>car.I lost my 94 IntegraGS-R in June,if it had had the programmed key
>security,they would not have been able to start it and drive off with
>it.(before I put several rounds into them...)

You would have had drinks with them? Seems awfully sociable for
someone who tried to steal your car.
NissTech - 31 Oct 2007 02:53 GMT
Why does the dealer have you by the short curlies as you put it .

It wasn't the dealer fault they lost their keys, it was the vehicles owner.

The only thing the dealer is providing is a service, kind of like what a
doctor or plumber does when you need him.

Pay a plumber to fix the leak ; pay the dealer to program the key.

So take your choice, a wet floor or a car you can't drive.

I guess you could shut the water off at the main completely but what does
that accomplish, kind of like having a car but not being able to drive it.

> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming
> it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Been there, had that done to me.
R J Talley - 31 Oct 2007 03:27 GMT
NissTech, spoken like a true dealer employee. Yes, losing the key is stupid.
Yes one should keep track of the key but....charging $130 for a
mass-produced item with no more than  a $10 materials cost; max, and just a
few minutes to program is usurious. If the dealership did not have a
monopoly on both the code and the equipment to do the encoding the price
would have to come way down.  That this is a deliberate ploy on the part of
those who make the machinery to create artificial monopolies and thus limit
price elasticity is just more proof of the attitude car manufacturers take
toward customers once the car has been driven off the showroom floor.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

Jim Yanik - 31 Oct 2007 03:42 GMT
> Why does the dealer have you by the short curlies as you put it .
>
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>>
>> Been there, had that done to me.

why should it cost $100 or more to program a key?
Seems to me,when you buy the key from Nissan,they should program it for
free,or at least a minimal charge.

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

R J Talley - 31 Oct 2007 05:22 GMT
The only thing the dealer is providing is a service, kind of like what
> a doctor or plumber does when you need him.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> does that accomplish, kind of like having a car but not being able to
> drive it.

Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, likewise a
doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them. Any monkey with
guide book can cut and program a key. The time involved in training takes
only minutes. The time involved in equipment a couple thousand at most and
likely less in some cases. To charge $130 or more to make a key is robbery
and nothing less. Any attempt to justify that is just plain irritating.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

: P - 31 Oct 2007 17:30 GMT
> The only thing the dealer is providing is a service, kind of like what
>> a doctor or plumber does when you need him.
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> is robbery and nothing less. Any attempt to justify that is just plain
> irritating.

Stop harping on what the dealer is charging for the key programming.  Plain
and simple truth is you screwed up and lost your key, not once, but twice.
You didn't learn to be more cautious after loosing the 1st key and I suspect
at that time you looked into a replacement and found out about the cost back
then.  Otherwise you'd have gotten a replacement.  Bite the bullet and count
this as a lesson learned.  Or just sell the car as is and let the new owner
worry about getting a key.
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 00:48 GMT
"Otherwise you'd have gotten a replacement.  Bite the bullet and count
this as a lesson learned.  Or just sell the car as is and let the new owner
worry about getting a key."

You know, I never said I lost my key. What happened is that I bought my
Murano used and it came with only one key. When I asked the dealer about a
spare, he then told me what it was going to cost. Of course, this entire
conversation occurred after the deal had been inked. It was only then that
he revealed that the only key he had was the Valet key. So, I was stuck and
had to pony up the cost of another key. So I guess the guy who traded in the
car was following your very thoughtful advice .... and let me worry about
it.

I stand by what I said, $130 for a new key is robbery, plain and simple.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 01:23 GMT
> "Otherwise you'd have gotten a replacement.  Bite the bullet and count
> this as a lesson learned.  Or just sell the car as is and let the new
> owner worry about getting a key."
>
> You know, I never said I lost my key. What happened is that I bought
> my Murano used and it came with only one key.

Same with my SE-R SpecV.(but not bought from a Nissan dealer)

> When I asked the dealer
> about a spare, he then told me what it was going to cost. Of course,
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I stand by what I said, $130 for a new key is robbery, plain and
> simple.

If that dealer was a Nissan dealer,he is dishonest,selling you a car with
only a valet key. I would have written Nissan about him.
I'd also let them know what I thought about their dealer programming
charges after buying a new key.

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 03:00 GMT
I bought if from the Toyota dealer next door. When they refused to get me a
second and proper key, I went to Nissan. Same story, no key unless I forked
over $130 beans. Oh and did I forget, another $100 for the fob!  I bought
the fob from ebay for $20 and programmed it myself.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

Dave - 01 Nov 2007 08:24 GMT
> If that dealer was a Nissan dealer,he is dishonest,selling you a car with
> only a valet key.

Perhaps not dishonest, but certainly not quite up front.

> I would have written Nissan about him.

and expected them to do what?

First, it's a USED car.  Second, dealers are independent businesses
and the factory has little to no control over how they conduct
business.  Certainly they have no say about a USED car.

> I'd also let them know what I thought about their dealer programming
> charges after buying a new key.

see above.  The market dictates the price.  If people were not
willing to pay it, the price would be lower.

BTW, they key for a Lexus is more ($400+) and you don't even want to
ask about one for a Mercedes.

dave
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 21:07 GMT
>> If that dealer was a Nissan dealer,he is dishonest,selling you a car
>> with only a valet key.
>
> Perhaps not dishonest, but certainly not quite up front.

Oh? you sign the deal,THEN he reveals there's important stuff missing.
That's dishonest in my book.
Also a bad business practice,that the national company should be made aware
of.Ask them if that's the sort of representative they want to be associated
with.

>> I would have written Nissan about him.
>
> and expected them to do what?
>
> First, it's a USED car.  Second, dealers are independent businesses

Franchises.(that can be revoked.)

> and the factory has little to no control over how they conduct
> business.  Certainly they have no say about a USED car.

Sure they do.The national companies do care about negative letters they
receive about a dealer. A bad rep can cost them new business.
Those national companies often have "certified" used cars that they promise
will be warrantied and a quality product.

>  
>> I'd also let them know what I thought about their dealer programming
>> charges after buying a new key.
>
> see above.  The market dictates the price.

Not for replacement keys.You can't go elsewhere and get a key for the RFID
keys;the programming is proprietary information.
There's no market competition,thus the company "dictates" the price.You
either buy it or do without.(which you can't,with a RFID key security
system.)

> If people were not
> willing to pay it, the price would be lower.

There's no market competition,thus the company "dictates" the price.You
either buy it or do without.(which you can't,with a RFID key security
system.)

> BTW, they key for a Lexus is more ($400+) and you don't even want to
> ask about one for a Mercedes.
>
> dave

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

still me - 01 Nov 2007 01:29 GMT
>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade, likewise a
>doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them. Any monkey with
>guide book can cut and program a key. The time involved in training takes
>only minutes. The time involved in equipment a couple thousand at most and
>likely less in some cases. To charge $130 or more to make a key is robbery
>and nothing less. Any attempt to justify that is just plain irritating.

Really? Minutes? You've been trained to do it? Only a measly couple of
thou for a modern key machine a and security system reprogrammer, eh?
Priced one, have you? How about the training program? How many keys
does the dealership have to make before they show $1 of profit on that
device and the employee training (to say nothing of the fixed costs
involved in simply running the business).

If you think it's such a rip off, then start your own business to do
it.  Design a business plan, pay the startup legal and finance costs,
purchase the equipment, get the training, rent a building, buy
insurance, hire employees, pay for advertising, etc. You'll probably
need to purchase equipment from all the manufacturers so that you can
pull enough customers through to make some money at it - so go look
for some investors and guarantee them high returns for your high risk
new business. Don't forget to budget for the Pepto Bismol you'll need
around the one year point when you are losing money every month and
you're worried about losing your house and wondering how you're going
to buy x-mas presents for the kids.  

I don't make excuses for the rip off dealership service departments
have become. Plumbers are an even bigger ripoff. But, what _irritates
me_ is when people don't think about the business costs and risks
involved before they whine about the costs of getting something done.
If you aren't able to do it yourself or willing to make the investment
then you have to pay for someone who took the risk and made the
investment.
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 02:39 GMT
>>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade,
>>likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> device and the employee training (to say nothing of the fixed costs
> involved in simply running the business).

Do you believe that a business HAS to make a profit on EVERY service and/or
part they sell?
The dealerships have to know how to do that stuff and have that equipment
just to satisfy warranty service.

Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide
service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their
customers and develop brand loyalty.They can even write off such things.
A person with a Nissan might decide to buy a different brand if they felt
they were not getting a fair treatment from a Nissan dealer.
Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things.
Auto dealerships are NOT some "small business",and are highly profitable.

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 03:10 GMT
If you are selling a product that can cost upwards of $35K or more and it
comes equipped with an essential part that is easily lost or damaged
rendering the product useless, then providing a low-cost means of
replacement is just plain good service.

The training involved in programming the key is next to nothing. I know this
for a fact as I asked for and received an explanation from not only a Nissan
tech, but also a certified locksmith (he makes keys for several makes of
auto) who is part of my hunting club and a Ford service manager. Likewise,
the basic key cutting machine is nothing special. The blanks come
pre-chipped and ready to program from the automaker who in turn, buys them
from one of a handful of manufacturers. The cost for the machinery is less
than what it takes to buy a brake turning lathe.  The total time invested in
making a new key and programming it is under 20 minutes and closer to 10
minutes for a good tech. Again, verified by my inquiries to the afore
mentioned men.

Your disgust and vitriol is misplaced. Aim it at the source of the problem,
the auto company, not at me.
R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman
: P - 01 Nov 2007 04:39 GMT
> If you are selling a product that can cost upwards of $35K or more and it
> comes equipped with an essential part that is easily lost or damaged
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Teacher/James Madison Fellow
> "What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

"The cost for the machinery is less than what it takes to buy a brake
turning lathe. "
Would you mind stating what that price would be?  I purchases a Used on car
lathe for $1500, which was 10 years out of date.  A new late would have set
me back $5700.  And you expect the keys to be given out free or at a
ridiculously below cost price (parts/labor/equipment)?

Another thing, "If you are selling a product that can cost upwards of $35K
or more and it comes equipped with an essential part that is easily lost or
damaged rendering the product useless, then providing a low-cost means of
replacement is just plain good service."  Are you saying you purchased the
Murano from a Toyota Dealer for $35K and expect the Nissan Dealer to make
you a special deal?  Why do you think that Toyota Dealer quoted a high price
for the key?  Didn't they need to get it from the Nissan Dealer?  Nissan and
Toyota are 2 entirely different companies with product lines that have
nothing to do with the other.  You simply purchased a car that was used as a
trade-in, just as any other used car dealer does.  BTW, I purchased my
Murano NEW from a Nissan Dealer for $35K and it came will the 2 keys/fobs &
a valet key.  I'm skeptical you paid Toyota the $35K and are just quoting
the new car price.
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 07:05 GMT
:P you are simply not reading what I'm writing.  Toyota refused to make the
key. Actually, they told me the key and code was proprietary and only Nissan
could provide it. They sent me to Nissan. Nissan quoted the price. It's
Nissan that I am referring to when I talk of price gouging.  I paid less
than 19K for the Murano 2 years old with 32K on the clock. Not a bad deal
but not a great deal either. The point sir, is that when selling high ticket
items that have a built in potential for failure, I.e. lost keys, it would
be a good thing if you provided customers with an affordable remedy for what
is almost certainly going to be an issue with a predictable number of
customers.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

Dave - 01 Nov 2007 08:35 GMT
> :P you are simply not reading what I'm writing.  Toyota refused to make the
> key. Actually, they told me the key and code was proprietary and only Nissan
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> is almost certainly going to be an issue with a predictable number of
> customers.

sorry, but your bitch-fest is directed at the wrong people.  #1 on
your list is YOU, who was too f.cking STUPID to get the correct keys
to begin with (deal or no deal, I don't get 2 keys with a car, tell
the seller to go f.ck himself).  #2 is the actual dealer you BOUGHT
the USED car from, who BTW wasn't the Nissan dealer you're now trying
to blame.

Do you really expect us to feel sorry for you?

dave
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 13:17 GMT
Sorry for me? No, I'm not a victim and I'm not asking for either sympathy or
pity. I'm simply stating an opinion. The automakers are gouging customers
unnecessarily when it comes to replacement keys. It ought to be better.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

: P - 01 Nov 2007 18:16 GMT
> Sorry for me? No, I'm not a victim and I'm not asking for either sympathy
> or pity. I'm simply stating an opinion. The automakers are gouging
> customers unnecessarily when it comes to replacement keys. It ought to be
> better.

I beg to differ.  You may not asking for sympathy outright, but indirectly,
that's exactly what you want.
Going to the Nissan Dealer and asking them to give you a price break for a
replacement key, when it's your fault for losing it.
You wouldn't have posted here if they gave in, then again, the Dealer
wouldn't be in business either since they'd be bankrupt for giving all their
customers what they wanted for whatever price Joe Public demanded.
R J Talley - 02 Nov 2007 01:25 GMT
OK guy, lets get it straight. I did not lose a key.  The previous owner did
or maybe the boys at Toyota either way, the fact that I was getting only the
valet key was not revealed to me until after ALL of the papers had been
signed.

Second, I did not, repeat did not ask for a deal or price break from the
dealer. I chose to pay it.  Now, I am complaining that the dealers charge
far too much for these keys. They have created a technological monopoly and
exploit it unfairly. That's my statement.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

: P - 01 Nov 2007 04:02 GMT
>>>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade,
>>>likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires them.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things.
> Auto dealerships are NOT some "small business",and are highly profitable.

"Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide
service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their
customers and develop brand loyalty."
What hypocrisy, especially about Brand Loyalty.  You stated "I bought if
from the Toyota dealer next door."
Then you have the nerve to gripe about the dealer price.  If you had true
Brand Loyalty, you'd have made your purchase from the Nissan Dealer, who'd
probably back up the purchase and made sure you got the second key.
R J Talley - 01 Nov 2007 07:11 GMT
>You stated "I bought if from the Toyota dealer next door."

I said that, not Yanik. I bought the car from Toyota because that's where
the car was. Nissan didn't have that car at that price.  Shoot, I didn't
care if it were a Nissan or a Toyota. I had in fact, been looking at Hondas
when the Murano presented itself. The price was right so I bit.

>Then you have the nerve to gripe about the dealer price.  If you had true
>Brand Loyalty, you'd have made your purchase from the Nissan Dealer, who'd
>probably back up the purchase and made sure you got the second key.

I have no brand loyalty. I believe that Yanik was making the argument that I
just might have developed some brand loyalty if Nissan had been a little
more customer friendly and he may have been right. As it stands now, I have
none. A car is a car is a car. Some are good, some are not. Some dealerships
are less adversarial others are more.

You seem to be taking this awfully personally, almost to the point of
irrationality.  Why not step back from the keyboard, take a deep breath and
calm down. You'll live longer and you just might make more sense.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 20:33 GMT
>>>>Another point...... it takes a plumber years to master the trade,
>>>>likewise a doctor. That's what one is paying for when one hires
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> What hypocrisy, especially about Brand Loyalty.  You stated "I bought
> if from the Toyota dealer next door."

RJ said that,I didn't. I didn't know what dealer he bought his auto from.
It still does not matter;no Nissan dealer should charge such exorbitant
fees for such services.

> Then you have the nerve to gripe about the dealer price.  If you had
> true Brand Loyalty, you'd have made your purchase from the Nissan
> Dealer, who'd probably back up the purchase and made sure you got the
> second key.

You must have trouble with your newsreader's attributes,you keep getting
mixed up on who said what.

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Dave - 01 Nov 2007 08:30 GMT
> Do you believe that a business HAS to make a profit on EVERY service and/or
> part they sell?

No, they should LOSE money on everything they sell, but make it up in
volume.

> The dealerships have to know how to do that stuff and have that equipment
> just to satisfy warranty service.

why?  When did losing a key become a warranty issue?

> Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide
> service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their
> customers and develop brand loyalty.

Yeah, like consumers are loyal to a car dealership.  What color is
the sky on your planet?

> They can even write off such things.

against the non-profit they make from selling at a loss.

> A person with a Nissan might decide to buy a different brand if they felt
> they were not getting a fair treatment from a Nissan dealer.

and a person with a (insert other brand name here) might buy a
Nissan.

> Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things.

HUH?

> Auto dealerships are NOT some "small business",and are highly profitable.

Explain Oldsmobile to us?  Or Plymouth?  Or maybe Yugo.

How much did Ford LOSE this year?  Or GM?

How many FEWER new car dealerships are there this year than last?

dave
Jim Yanik - 01 Nov 2007 20:54 GMT
>> Do you believe that a business HAS to make a profit on EVERY service
>> and/or part they sell?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> why?  When did losing a key become a warranty issue?

I've read of several new car owners having problems with programmed keys
not working properly. Infant failures and the like. One does not have to
LOSE a key to have key problems that would be covered under warranty.Even
just ONE bad key has to be dealt with if under warranty,thus the need for
support equipment.I suppose you believe that a dealer doesn't need to have
such equipment if the key failure rates are low.They can just tell their
customers to go somewhere else,with your reasoning;it's not profitable to
have that equipment.
>  
>> Sometimes,it's a better business decision to give away or provide
>> service/parts at cost or even a loss in order to better serve their
>> customers and develop brand loyalty.
>
> Yeah, like consumers are loyal to a car dealership.

Often,they are. I've bought new Hondas for decades.I would have again if
1;I had the money,2;they made anything I like,which they don't.

> What color is
> the sky on your planet?
>
>> They can even write off such things.
>
> against the non-profit they make from selling at a loss.

Oh,yeah,dealers always sell autos at a loss....I've never known any new
auto dealership owner to be a poor man.

>> A person with a Nissan might decide to buy a different brand if they
>> felt they were not getting a fair treatment from a Nissan dealer.
>
> and a person with a (insert other brand name here) might buy a
> Nissan.

Unless they read about such service treatment.Look at the domestic auto
companies;they got a reputation for bad service at dealerships,and people
began buying import cars instead.

>> Someone with Nissan's resources can easily afford such things.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Explain Oldsmobile to us?  

Made cars for old farts,couldn't make them at a low cost.
also stuck with inflexible,costly union labor,a MAJOR disadvantage.

> Or Plymouth?  
Same labor problems.

> Or maybe Yugo.

Just a junky product.

> How much did Ford LOSE this year?  Or GM?

they made vehicles people didn't want.

> How many FEWER new car dealerships are there this year than last?
>
> dave


When money is tight due to rising costs,people spend less,keep cars
longer.Or they trade in for more economical cars.

BTW,I've worked in a service industry,dealt with lots of customers,and
compared to other company service centers,I had happier and more loyal
customers,because I gave them good service and good treatment,kept their
repair prices low. I often fixed instruments usually done by other service
centers,and then those customers started sending all their equipment to
me,and not their closer service center.

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

R J Talley - 02 Nov 2007 01:40 GMT
Jim, those guys are obviously not listening or, they are shills for the
industry or maybe they are trolls looking for a fight, who knows. I have a
hard time believing that any reasonable person who has one iota of knowledge
about the predatory nature of car sales could muster too much sympathy for
the major carmakers. Dave and the other guy are coming across as blind
apologists for an industry that views customers as cash-cows; opportunities
to extract as much profit as possible depending on the person's ignorance,
lack of bargaining skills, limited mental faculties, gullibility or
down-right vanity. How many other items in life have no fixed price?
Usually, the full price each must pay is stated right up front on a
purchase. Not so with cars. Only a real neophyte pays the sticker price.
Those with more education or business sense can find out the true dealer
cost, delivered to the dealer, minus special dealer incentives and rewards
and then offer a reasonable profit above that amount, say 6-10% to close the
deal. Those without that skill or knowledge often pay much, much more. A
case in point. Almost every dealership I've seen in CA has something called
ADP added to the sticker price of all new cars. In many cases it's a couple
of thousand dollars. ADP for those who don't know is an acronym for
additional dealer profit. In other words, it is a huge chunk of junk fee
added to the dealer's profit above and beyond his monthly sales bonus, the
kick-back he gets on that model if any and the built in profit already on
the sticker.

Oh well, car dealers are what they are because the public tolerates it. The
really bad ones eventually do go out of business. The marginal ones just go
on and on, raking in the bucks because we really have no alternative to the
automobile and because the average Joe has no real idea how badly he's being
fleeced.

Signature

R J Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
"What? Me Worry? Alfred E Newman

Alan - 27 Jan 2008 17:58 GMT
> OK, here's the bad news. Yes, the dealer can make a new key but programming
> it is gonna cost you. The dealer now has you by the short curlies. Nissan is
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Been there, had that done to me.

I've had 2 copied of my key made by local locksmiths for the purpose of
getting my keys out in case of them being locked in.  Neither worked
with my 05 Altima.
 
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