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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / December 2007

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Alternator Nissan Truck

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R/C Foster - 26 Nov 2007 05:08 GMT
95 nissan truck, New alternator, new battery, will not charge at high idle.
It charges when first started, but as soon as the idle settles down, about a
minute, the alternator quites charging the battery.  cleaned and checked
every thing.  any ideas?  Thanks.
Tim - 26 Nov 2007 06:36 GMT
How do you know when it charge or not charging?  What instrument did you use
to measure the charges?

Did you get 14.0V or above?  If you do then it got to charge.  Usually
Alternator generates so much currents and it charges so quick comparing to
your regular AC charger.  It sounds like you got a bad battery, or your
electrolyte needs changing.  This happened to me once, I thought it was
charger, but I was wrong at that time.

If you get 13.3V then you can help boost the alternator up with a resister
of 80 ohms, there is a line that controls the flow of current, coming down
from instrument cluster.

Good luck.

> 95 nissan truck, New alternator, new battery, will not charge at high
> idle. It charges when first started, but as soon as the idle settles down,
> about a minute, the alternator quites charging the battery.  cleaned and
> checked every thing.  any ideas?  Thanks.
Tim - 26 Nov 2007 06:39 GMT
Sorry for the missing characters.  I think and speak faster than my typing.
There I fixed it.

> How do you know when it charges or not charging?  What instrument did you
> use to measure the charges?
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> down, about a minute, the alternator quites charging the battery.
>> cleaned and checked every thing.  any ideas?  Thanks.
Tim - 26 Nov 2007 08:25 GMT
I forgot to mention, if you want to use an 80ohms resistor to boost the
current, you got to use a 5 watts, it will get warm, but find the line that
is on when ignition is turned on, otherwise it can drain your battery.

I love Nissan and Infiniti's family of Alternators, they are very good
products.  I looked at TOYOTA and MAZDA schematic, they don't have similar
features, SUBARU has similar control like Nissan and Infiniti's so luck is
on your side.

> Sorry for the missing characters.  I think and speak faster than my
> typing. There I fixed it.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>>> down, about a minute, the alternator quites charging the battery.
>>> cleaned and checked every thing.  any ideas?  Thanks.
R/C Foster - 26 Nov 2007 13:04 GMT
the mechanic uses a volt meter I think, when the truck is started, it
measures 14 and above, as soon as the idle goes to normal, about a minute,
the battery measures 12 and below.  We can hear a click in a little blue
unit, there are two of them side by side near the driver fender  when this
unit clicks the battery does not charge.  Both of these little relays are
identical, we switch the wires from one to the other and it is no
difference. ??
Tim - 26 Nov 2007 17:05 GMT
> the mechanic uses a volt meter I think, when the truck is started, it
> measures 14 and above, as soon as the idle goes to normal, about a minute,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> identical, we switch the wires from one to the other and it is no
> difference. ??

According to the million schematic I've seen, I have never seen a single
relay in between the Charger and the battery.  Battery and Alternator are
directly connected, you can verify from Positive pole of the battery to the
Alternator, you should see 0 ohm.  It sounds to me that your mechanic may
have a poor meter connection.  When an alternator is running, it will never
drop below 13.0V.

I have a doubt on how well your new is being called new?  Is this a cheap
rebuilt? Excuse me to say that.
Uwe Brockmann - 26 Nov 2007 20:26 GMT
R/C Foster:
> as soon as the idle goes to normal, about a minute,
> the battery measures 12 and below.  We can hear a click in a little blue
> unit, there are two of them side by side near the driver fender  when this
> unit clicks the battery does not charge.  Both of these little relays are
> identical, we switch the wires from one to the other and it is no
> difference. ??

My 1988 D21 pick-up has a big oval 2-wire plastic connector that plugs
into the rear of the alternator. One wire connects the alternator S
(sense) terminal through a fusible link to the positive terminal of
the battery. The other wire connects the alternator L (lamp) terminal
through the combination meter (charge warning lamp) and a fuse to the
ignition switch.

If the L terminal connection is intermittent charging will be
intermittent. The relay will click each time the connection opens or
closes. If there are no other problems with the charging system the
alternator warning light will also change state each time the connection
opens or closes.

I know that my oval plug is bad because I can make the relay click by
wiggling the plug while the engine is running. Voltage across the
battery terminals drops from above 14 V to approx. 12 V (exact lower
voltage depending on battery charge) whenever the relay clicks off.

I was unable to repair the plug by cleaning or bending the contacts or
by applying Stabilant 22a. Replacement plugs are not available from auto
parts stores or Nissan.

However, Northwest Regulator Supply/AmFor (http://www.nwreg.com/), a
maker of alternator test equipment, sells them directly to the public
for most makes and models of cars. I just called them and ordered
an SL-style repair lead (part no. 50-12252) for under $11.00 incl.
shipping.

Does anybody know another source of Nissan alternator connectors/repair
leads? (Auto parts stores only seem to carry Ford and GM alternator
connectors.)

Signature

Uwe Brockmann, uwe@pobox.com

Tim - 28 Nov 2007 05:47 GMT
Hi there you two got me curious.  I went to check the schematic for Nissan
95 truck, I do not see any relay connecting to the Instrument Cluster or to
the Alternator and the battery, maybe the schematic was mislabeled or
something.  I saw the SENTRA schematic, it does have a Relay to stop
charging if the charging circuit sees that the battery is full.  Something
must be wrong with the battery sensing circuit.  There is no way that the L
can be intermittent, if it is so than the owner must see the flashy light on
the dash board.

> R/C Foster:
>> as soon as the idle goes to normal, about a minute,
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> leads? (Auto parts stores only seem to carry Ford and GM alternator
> connectors.)
Uwe Brockmann - 28 Nov 2007 20:32 GMT
Tim:
> I went to check the schematic for Nissan 95 truck, I do not see any
> relay connecting to the Instrument Cluster or to the Alternator and
> the battery, maybe the schematic was mislabeled or something.

I have looked at the schematics for the 1988 and 1996 trucks. Neither
one shows a relay. I suspect that the relay is unrelated to the charging
system. This would explain why it is not shown in the (charging system)
wiring diagram. The relay clicking off is probably just a symptom of
the charging system not working.

> There is no way that the L can be intermittent, if it is so than the
> owner must see the flashy light on the dash board.

My symptoms have varied over time.

At first the alternator V-belt slipped intermittently despite being
overtightened. Turning off the A/C stopped the slipping. The A/C had
to remain off for up to 60 s before it could be turned back on without
causing the V-belt to slip. Sometimes the battery was too weak to turn
over the starter until the driver opened his door and lightly rocked the
vehicle forward or backward in any gear with one foot. Battery and (new)
starter were good.

Then the (dashboard) charge warning lamp stayed off all of the time,
even during the bulb check. Battery terminal voltage was lower with
the engine running than with the engine off. The charge warning light
bulb was good. (I confirmed that the bulb was good by grounding the L
connector of the alternator plug with the ignition on and the engine
off.) Replacing the alternator had no effect. The new alternator was
confirmed good with a bench test before installation. The old alternator
was confirmed good with a bench test after removal. During the bench
test the old alternator, rated at 60 A, delivered 90 A of current
without any V-belt slippage.

Later, just before writing my previous article, wiggling the alternator
plug (with the engine running) had the following effects:

       1. relay clicks
       2. (dashboard) charge warning lamp state changes
       3. voltage changes across battery terminals

Now I am unable to identify the clicking relay because I can no longer
get it to click. I can still toggle battery terminal voltage between
12.5 V and 14.3 V by wiggling the alternator plug. Each change in
battery terminal voltage is accompanied by a change in engine sound.

The changing symptoms consistently indicate a bad alternator plug.

Who would have thought that all of the following symptoms were caused by
a bad alternator plug?

       - slipping alternator V-belt
    - difficulty starting
       - alternator warning lamp bulb check failure
    - charging system failure

Who would have known where (http://www.nwreg.com/) to buy a new
alternator plug?

Signature

Uwe Brockmann, uwe@pobox.com

R/C Foster - 30 Nov 2007 01:49 GMT
After my mechanic went thru the entire truck, connection by connection, put
meters on every electrical connection he could find, tore out part of the
dash, looking for something wrong.  He finally decided it had to be the
alternator or regulator inside the alternator, so he put everything back
together, installed the 5th alternator, new by the way, it is now charging
like it should.
 I think, but did not tell the mechanic, that it was a wire or ground that
he moved or jiggled, not knowing that was the problem all the time.  I don't
think my problem ever was an alternator.  Installing 5 rebuild/new units
does not make sense........any thoughts on this?  Thanks for all the help
from the newsgroup..........
Uwe Brockmann - 01 Dec 2007 05:11 GMT
R/C Foster:
> I think, but did not tell the mechanic, that it was a wire or ground
> that he moved or jiggled, not knowing that was the problem all the
> time.

IMHO, the alternator plug, which is responsible for the S and L
connections, is an electrical weak spot. The other two alternator
connectors are much less likely to go bad because they are screwed on.
In addition they would be easy to clean if that was necessary.

The charging system trouble shooting procedure in the Nissan repair
manual is identical to the generic procedure that was recommended to me
by the experienced alternator rebuilder who sold me my new (rebuilt)
alternator. I followed this procedure exactly. However, it incorrectly
identified the alternator as faulty because the procedure did not have a
faulty alternator plug as a possible outcome.

> Installing 5 rebuild/new units does not make sense........any thoughts
> on this?

The way to know for sure is to have the supposedly bad units
bench-tested. Most auto parts stores have the required equipment and
will test an alternator for you at no charge if you carry it in. Hiring
a mechanic to repair your charging system may put you at a disadvantage
because it may prevent you from having the old alternator tested. The
mechanic will usually want to keep the old alternator in order to
turn it in for a refund of the core charge that he had to pay for the
new/rebuilt unit.

I am glad that I had both of my alternators tested, the new one before
installation and the old one after removal. It greatly helped with
troubleshooting.

Signature

Uwe Brockmann, uwe@pobox.com

shaqtopz - 28 Nov 2007 21:55 GMT
> R/C Foster:
>
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> --
> Uwe Brockmann, u...@pobox.com

Try using DeoxIT on the connections.  Best stuff for improving
connections.
Mike
Uwe Brockmann - 29 Nov 2007 21:49 GMT
shaqtopz:
> Try using DeoxIT on the connections.

I thought that I was well-prepared because I had bought some Stabilant
22A a long time ago. It has helped me in the past but it did not do the
trick this time.

> Best stuff for improving connections.

Does DeoxIT work better than Stabilant 22A?  Maybe.  However, given
that a brand new connector without DeoxIT or Stabilant 22A generally
works well for a long time I assume that the combination of a new
connector and Stabilant 22A will work better than a combination of the
old connector and DeoxIT.

Here somebody recommends a combination of DeoxIT and Stabilant 22A
for use on computer connectors:

       http://mindprod.com/bgloss/contacttreating.html

The ultimate solution for my problem would probably be a combination of
a new connector, DeoxIT, 99% isopropanol, and Stabilant 22A but I hope
that I will not have to go that far.

Signature

Uwe Brockmann, uwe@pobox.com

shaqtopz - 30 Nov 2007 19:08 GMT
> shaqtopz:
>
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> --
> Uwe Brockmann, u...@pobox.com

I would never mix one companies chemical with anothers without
recommendations/approval from both companies.
For computer connectors I use ONLY the Deoxit GOLD.  Works like not
other product on plated connections, especially gold surfaces.  From
what I have read and observed, the Gold stuff penetrates the gold
surface and bonds with the base metal - and seals out oxygen from
getting to the metal.
Like stabilant it enhances the conductivity, unlike stabilant it
dissolves oxidation and is ideal for moving or connectors under
vibration.  Stabilant is more of a grease and needs to be reapplied if
it is removed or moved.  Deoxit is more of a liquid film that moves
and continually re-coats or reseals the surfaces.  Stabilant is also a
good lubricant.
The deoxit site has a lot of tech infomation, www.deoxit.com, and for
computer connections I use the spray (GN5S-6N), the gold pen and gold
wipes.
Good luck.
Mike
Tim - 30 Nov 2007 19:37 GMT
>> shaqtopz:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> For computer connectors I use ONLY the Deoxit GOLD.  Works like not
> other product on plated connections, especially gold surfaces.  From

If you know the basic science,  mixing shouldn't be a problem plus mixing
could save you money(and energy).  It depends on what it is you're trying to
mix.  Connectors that carries low current is not to be too much big deal, I
agree Gold is the best conductance but it won't serve you best by having the
best conductor in about 5% of the whole cable.  Solid Housing is what I
would look for in this case.
 
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