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Car Forum / Nissan / Nissan Cars / January 2008

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'92 Sentra-Electrical problem

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Plague Boy - 05 Jan 2008 01:52 GMT
Well, I have a new problem with the Nissan. It's been snowed in,
and with temps near zero, I figured even if I dug it out, I would
probably just drain the battery trying to get it to start.

    Yesterday, after work, I dug the car out and tried to start it.
Temp about 14F. It *did* start, after the symptoms describe in
the "cold start" post. So, I let it idle for about 15 minutes to
warm up, with the heater on max and rear defogger.

    When I drove it, I noticed the dash lights seemed a little dim.
I drove it about a mile, tried to keep RPMs up to charge the battery.

    I got to the shopping center and was pulling into the parking
lot when...it died. Engine stopped, warning lights came on. Car
would not start, even when I shut all electrical off. I had to
push it to a parking spot.

    After sitting for a few minutes trying to figure out a course of
action, I turned the key. It fired right up like nothing had
happened. I revved the engine and thought it over. I shut it off.
I restarted it with no problem. So, I got my groceries, came out
and started the car again, no problem. About two blocks later, I
stopped for a stop sign. Oops, car is dead. Would not restart,
just "click click". A passing motorist gave me a jump, and I
tried to drive home without stopping. Didn't make it; trying to
push through an intersection at low speed car stalled again and
would not start. However, I was at the top of a hill, so I pushed
it through, coasted and bump-started. No problem.

    At this point, the car started losing power while driving at
15-20 MPH. I found out that if I turned the headlights off, the
car recovered power *instantly*. So I drove the last miles home
turning the lights on and off to keep the car going while I ran
every stop sign. I slammed into the driveway, cursed the car
liberally, and brought the groceries inside.

    So. What is wrong? I'm not sure. I know the guy I bought the car
from had electrical problems in boston last year. He had a garage
install a new battery and alternator (Nov '06. When I got the
car, I installed a new battery tray and hold down, cleaned  the
battery and added a little distilled water, cleaned the terminals
and clamps and sprayed with anti-corrosive. I switched that
battery for another one I had purchased  in Feb of '07 when I ran
it down trying to start the car in the last cold spell.

    I also checked the alt connections this summer while working on
the car, and they visually looked good. I noticed the starter
connector looked corroded, but it looked had to get at so  I
didn't clean it, which would be my usual "new-to-me" drill.

    After removing the battery tonight after work, I noticed the
negative cable is green and corroded between the lug and the
insulation. This looks like a "single point of failure" to me so
I am going to rehab/replace it tomorrow. I have read many posts
about bad grounds in Nissans.

    I'm thinking maybe it's a "perfect storm" problem-cold temps,
battery discharge, heavy alternator demand. I realized later that
letting it idle with the heaters on probably didn't do it any favors.

    Any specific advice from anybody?

Signature

PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

Codifus - 05 Jan 2008 17:26 GMT
> Well, I have a new problem with the Nissan. It's been snowed in, and
> with temps near zero, I figured even if I dug it out, I would probably
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> into the driveway, cursed the car liberally, and brought the groceries
> inside.

>     So. What is wrong? I'm not sure. I know the guy I bought the car
> from had electrical problems in boston last year. He had a garage
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> had purchased  in Feb of '07 when I ran it down trying to start the car
> in the last cold spell.
 Electrical, like you said. You probably have a bad ground somewhere.
SInce you've replaced the ALT and BATT recently, a bit too frequently as
well, I might add, those connections must be clean, right? I suggest you
nurse the car until you get to warmer temps and replace or clean all
ground connections. For example, follow the negative battery cable from
the battery. It will ground to the chassis. Clean that. Then the cable
will ground again to the transmission or motor. Clean that. Use
something like a stainless steel toothbrush so all your contacts are shiny.

Follow the positive cable from the battery. The cable sortof has 2 sets
of wires coming from it. One side goes to the fusible link/fuses box.
Clean that. The other side goes directly to the starter, I beieive.
CLean those to.

When cleaning the assumption is that the battery is dis-connected and
sitting outside the car to give you room to reach all these connections.

>     I also checked the alt connections this summer while working on the
> car, and they visually looked good. I noticed the starter connector
> looked corroded, but it looked had to get at so  I didn't clean it,
> which would be my usual "new-to-me" drill.

>     After removing the battery tonight after work, I noticed the
> negative cable is green and corroded between the lug and the insulation.
> This looks like a "single point of failure" to me so I am going to
> rehab/replace it tomorrow. I have read many posts about bad grounds in
> Nissans.

Bad grounds are a car thing, not Nissan thing. Another thing to do after
you've totally cleaned everything and put back the battery, all
connections are tight and snug . . . .coat the + and - connection with
vaseline (petroleum jelly) The vaseline provides a protective coating to
prevent corrosion from getting to the terminals.

>     I'm thinking maybe it's a "perfect storm" problem-cold temps,
> battery discharge, heavy alternator demand. I realized later that
> letting it idle with the heaters on probably didn't do it any favors.

Leaving the heater on shouldn't hurt anything. The fan causes minimal
battery drain unless it on full blast. Defogger and headlights, now
that's a battery drain. Got foglights? even more drain.

>     Any specific advice from anybody?

CD
Plague Boy - 07 Jan 2008 04:04 GMT
<snip>

>  Electrical, like you said. You probably have a bad ground somewhere.
> SInce you've replaced the ALT and BATT recently, a bit too frequently as
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> will ground again to the transmission or motor. Clean that. Use
> something like a stainless steel toothbrush so all your contacts are shiny.

    Well, I cleaned all the terminals on the battery, clamps,
alternator, and engine ground and drove the car after
re-installing the charged battery. Got about 10 miles from home
and *pow* car dies, fortunately in another parking lot. could not
restart. Switched out the battery for the fully charged spare
from the trunk and everything was fine for the rest of the day.
On the last leg home, it started feeling odd again, although it
did make it home.

    Car would not start this morning, so I jumped it from the brand
new battery (replaced under warranty from PepPartsSuperZone last
night) and drove to work. Car would not start when I left work,
so I swapped in the new battery, drove home, and put the other
battery on the charger.

    So, I am now of the mind it is the alternator, or at least
something in the charging circuit. I will test the voltage and
amps when I have a chance, but I may have to just charge the
battery every night for now.

    Although I believe the party I purchased the car from said he
replaced the alternator, on reflection:
-he doesn't know an alternator from a spark plug
-the alternator says "Nissan" (Hitachi) and looks much older than
November of '06 when he thought it was replaced
-I can't see a small independent garage putting in a Nissan
alternator.

    I have cleaned the alternator main wire, the field wires, and
the ground wire. I have tightened the drive belt. Is there
anything else I could check? Obviously, I will know more after
some electrical tests.

    If I decide to replace the alternator, should I get a rebuilt
from PepZonePartExpress, or one from a Nissan dealer? I'm
guessing we're talking $125 or about $250 so I'm not going to the
dealer without a good reason.

Signature

PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

codifus - 07 Jan 2008 13:30 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 49 lines]
> "I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
> Red Bull generation." - CJW

Got a voltmeter? Test the battery while it is connected to the car.
When the car is off, the battery terminals should read 12 volts. When
the car is on, the battery terminals should read 14.2 volts.

Something tells me your ALT is the original one and is dying.

CD
Plague Boy - 08 Jan 2008 03:35 GMT
> Got a voltmeter? Test the battery while it is connected to the car.
> When the car is off, the battery terminals should read 12 volts. When
> the car is on, the battery terminals should read 14.2 volts.
>
> Something tells me your ALT is the original one and is dying.

    I have read both my shop manuals and Googled, and the only other
suggestion is that there is a 10A fuse somewhere in the circuit.
There should be +12VDC on one of the connections to the alt.

    I have +12V, I could not find a fuse. Voltmeter shows about
12.5VDC on the battery with the ignition off. When I start the
car, it goes *down* to under 12V.

    I put an ammeter in series with the main alternator lead. It
shows about 5 amps charge at idle. It goes up to about 10 amps
when I bump the RPMs up to about 2K. If I turn on the lights,
heater and wiper, it stays the same.

    It seems as if it's putting out enough current to keep the idiot
light from coming on, but not enough to power the car and charge
the battery.

    I don't see much option but to replace the alternator at this
point.  SuperAutoPartsExpress claims to have a rebuilt for under
$100.00

Signature

PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

codifus - 08 Jan 2008 22:10 GMT
When I start the
> car, it goes *down* to under 12V.
....
> --
> PB
> "I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
> Red Bull generation." - CJW

Your alternator is toast, my friend. Specifically, the voltage
regulator is shot. Battery is fine. Replace the ALT and you should be
OK.

FYI, I just replaced my wife's ALT in her 98 Altima. Same symptoms.
12.5 volts with the car off, down to 12.1 with the car on.

I replaced the ALT with a rebuilt one from Autozone. It turned out
that the rebuilt ALT from Autozone IS a rebuilt Nissan ALT. Go figure.

CD
Jim Yanik - 08 Jan 2008 22:37 GMT
codifus <codifus@optonline.net> wrote in news:b336efb3-0059-4c5c-8758-
decd292706e2@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com:

>  When I start the
>> car, it goes *down* to under 12V.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> CD

what else would the "rebuilt" alternator be rebuilt from?

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

codifus - 09 Jan 2008 03:41 GMT
> codifus <codi...@optonline.net> wrote in news:b336efb3-0059-4c5c-8758-
> decd29270...@1g2000hsl.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> at
> kua.net

Autozone used to sell their own brand of Duralast alternators. I
figured it would be one of those. I was happily surprised, and a bit
relieved to see the Nissan logo on mine.

CD
Plague Boy - 09 Jan 2008 04:30 GMT
<snip>

> Your alternator is toast, my friend. Specifically, the voltage
> regulator is shot. Battery is fine. Replace the ALT and you should be
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> I replaced the ALT with a rebuilt one from Autozone. It turned out
> that the rebuilt ALT from Autozone IS a rebuilt Nissan ALT. Go figure.

    I hobbled over to Autozone after work, and bought the rebuilt
alt. Quite a struggle to put it in, about three hours! I think it
took me less than half an hour to put the alt in my '85 Camry.

    Voltage is now about 13.5VDC regardless of RPMs, even with all
accessories on. I presume that this has solved the problem.

    Codifus, thank you for all you advice!

Signature

PB
"I suspect you're an arrogant little pissant who grew up in the
Red Bull generation." - CJW

Codifus - 09 Jan 2008 12:30 GMT
> <snip>
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>     Codifus, thank you for all you advice!

Glad to be of help!

CD
still just me - 08 Jan 2008 22:38 GMT
>    I have +12V, I could not find a fuse. Voltmeter shows about
>12.5VDC on the battery with the ignition off. When I start the
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>point.  SuperAutoPartsExpress claims to have a rebuilt for under
>$100.00

I have no idea what the specs are for that alternator's output... you
should probably get a manual.

One additional test is whether it putting out the right voltage.

Also, you should check the voltage regulator to see what it is doing.
Jim Yanik - 08 Jan 2008 22:59 GMT
>>     I have +12V, I could not find a fuse. Voltmeter shows about
>>12.5VDC on the battery with the ignition off. When I start the
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Also, you should check the voltage regulator to see what it is doing.

I'd guess 45 amps at minimum.

Signature

Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

 
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