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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / February 2005406 ECU tuning
Hi, I have a P406 2.1L Turbo diesel engine, in which I have recentry replaced an air filter with a K&N one. I am now thinking of remapping its ECU, but not quite sure how much of a performance increase I would get. I would be very interested in getting more power over the 3000rpm mark as it seems to just die at this point. Any good places to have this done in or links to some sites also appreciated :) Alex Diesels don`t do POWER at higher rev`s, they are all about TORQUE at low rev`s. Have a read of all - there is a lot - at www.allardturbosport.co.uk. Unfortunately, I have no commercial connection. Happy motoring, Wally. =============================================================== > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Alex Have a look at: www.dieseltuning.nl Rob > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Alex >Have a look at: www.dieseltuning.nl > >Rob Thanks for this. I looked through this site and it seems to be pretty cheap compared to most UK ones. Can the ECU be changed by myself or does have to be done by the garage? Alex > >Have a look at: www.dieseltuning.nl > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Alex You don't have to change the ECU. It's very easy, I have done this on a 307 2.0 HDI. You can mail him for info. Rob >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Alex you can gain about 20% in Bhp and a mere 40Nm on torque before dramatically shortening your engines lifespan If your really take it to the max an increase of 50% can be achieved by then you do need an induction kit ( K&N makes a nice one) an you have to take the Kat out . passing a MOT test is not easy by then.... DO NOT USE the powerbox or whatever, it only opens the injectors for a prolonged time, its rubbish go for ODB remapping/rechipping maybe http://www.angeltuning.co.uk/default.asp is a good start of on your search Hi Marc, > DO NOT USE the powerbox or whatever, it only opens the injectors for a > prolonged time, its rubbish Pretty true on petrol or electronically injected engines, but here we're talking about a 2.1TD, so a XUD11 BTE. For sure it's a fully mechanic injection (possibly with a little electronics control on advance / retarding due to the cat - however I keep in mind that cat'd 205Ds (German specs for example, XUD9/Y) only had a chimic cat (no electronics for it) and an EGR valve). > go for ODB remapping/rechipping I'm afraid there's no ECU map, as there's not any full control ECU (no Bosch EDC or whatever else), so a remapping would be as useless as if I tried with my 205D :-) Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st >Hi Marc, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >EDC or whatever else), so a remapping would be as useless as if I tried with >my 205D :-) i stand corrected, its usefully for a HDI. however if you fiddle around with the pump you could get fair results i got my 305d ( XUD9 )to run 176km/h by turning the fuel ratio up and giving it a RAM air inlet ;-), later on i gave it some extra pressure with two 12 volt axial fans, same top speed, lots more torque, you should have seen the faces of the golf TDI drivers when it kept up with them:-) these day's it is a HDI which in contrary to the XUD9 would not withstand an EFR pulse... i'm sure a 205d can get to the same results PS the ELF feul worked okay :-) 216km/h ( pug clock) on the A39, amsterdam tignes 8h53min including dinner and lots of snow in the Ardennes. did not brake any legs, trip home 234km/h downhill... scary!!! >Regards, >G.T >g.t6@worldonline.fr >205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st Hi, > >I'm afraid there's no ECU map, as there's not any full control ECU (no Bosch > >EDC or whatever else), so a remapping would be as useless as if I tried with > >my 205D :-) > i stand corrected, its usefully for a HDI. Eh eh :-) > however if you fiddle around with the pump you could get fair results > i got my 305d ( XUD9 )to run 176km/h by turning the fuel ratio up and > giving it a RAM air inlet ;-), later on i gave it some extra pressure True, but I wonder if the pump's and / or engine's reliability isn't affected. MPG must be less good, too. The other problem is the emissions test. > with two 12 volt axial fans, same top speed, lots more torque, Kind of forced air inlet ? > you should have seen the faces of the golf TDI drivers when it kept up > with them:-) Must be great :-) My brother used to pass the Golf TDi 90HP with his '91 205DTurbo, he said it was great fun. Oh, the DTurbo is still fine, even better once the pump was overhauled and trimmed, but my brother doesn't drive as fast now. > i'm sure a 205d can get to the same results Yes, of course. When my brother was studying automotive mecanic, he knew a guy which did the same with his 106D (don't ask me if it was a 1.4 or 1.5), damn it was a bullet ! 180KPH on the clock. > PS the ELF feul worked okay :-) 216km/h ( pug clock) on the A39, I knew it would be OK, considering the results on my 205D (and those on my cousin's XAD). Ouch, 216KPH on a motorway, you're damn lucky the speedtraps doen't concern foreign cars ! > amsterdam tignes 8h53min including dinner and lots of snow in the > Ardennes. did not brake any legs, trip home 234km/h downhill... Correct time ! Starting from Burgundy to Tignes, using the fastest way at legal speeds would take 5h29 (according to Michelin Road Atlas 2002). > scary!!! Sure, not often driven under 180KPH, true ? Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >affected. MPG must be less good, too. The other problem is the emissions >test. which was easely taken by turning the screw backwards :-0 and then forwards again after the test >> with two 12 volt axial fans, same top speed, lots more torque, >Kind of forced air inlet ? My very own interpertation of a supercharger :-) it even had a pressure adjustment knob, the presure itself was on and about 800Mbar over normal >> you should have seen the faces of the golf TDI drivers when it kept up >> with them:-) >Must be great :-) My brother used to pass the Golf TDi 90HP with his '91 >205DTurbo, he said it was great fun. Oh, the DTurbo is still fine, even >better once the pump was overhauled and trimmed, but my brother doesn't >drive as fast now. overtaking them was not possible but tailing them sure was fun, then eat them in better cornering, and leaving them dazed >> i'm sure a 205d can get to the same results >Yes, of course. When my brother was studying automotive mecanic, he knew a [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >I knew it would be OK, considering the results on my 205D (and those on my >cousin's XAD). mind you that i fidled aroung with timing, injector window and turbo presure in the ECU, and mounted a K&N filter >Ouch, 216KPH on a motorway, you're damn lucky the speedtraps doen't concern >foreign cars ! You bet, my friend though got a 90 fine for doing 170, rather cheap though if you compare that to Holland ( some 500 and revoking your licence for some time) there AFIAK only speedtraps around thionvile on the A31 I got my self framed though @ the third Sarco in metz, thought there were two :-( did not get the ticket though >> amsterdam tignes 8h53min including dinner and lots of snow in the >> Ardennes. did not brake any legs, trip home 234km/h downhill... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> scary!!! >Sure, not often driven under 180KPH, true ? errhh none! the 234 ( it might be 235 i did not look all that long) was @ a moderate downslope, ti shivered slight ly @ 220, and then went on to the red zone on the rpm gauge Grrzz Marc Hi Marc, > >affected. MPG must be less good, too. The other problem is the emissions > >test. > which was easely taken by turning the screw backwards :-0 and then > forwards again after the test True. Er... I've heard it was easier on a Roto pump than on a Bosch, true ? > >> with two 12 volt axial fans, same top speed, lots more torque, > >Kind of forced air inlet ? > My very own interpertation of a supercharger :-) it even had a It looks like a supercharger, but I didn't want to write this term :-) > pressure adjustment knob, > the presure itself was on and about 800Mbar over normal 800mbar is over the max pressure you get with a DTurbo (600mbar according the the data I've got here). > >Must be great :-) My brother used to pass the Golf TDi 90HP with his '91 > >205DTurbo, he said it was great fun. Oh, the DTurbo is still fine, even > >better once the pump was overhauled and trimmed, but my brother doesn't > >drive as fast now. > overtaking them was not possible but tailing them sure was fun, then He did. > eat them in better cornering, and leaving them dazed Oh, once on a tiny, tight-bended road in the Morvan, he was followed by a Toy MR-2, he said he pushed up to 170KPH between curves, the MR was coming back to him on straight lines, but was relegated far behind in curves (I assume my brother has used his favorite combination of late-braking and fast-cornering, as the DTurbo chassis (same as 1.6GTi) offers this possibility). > >> PS the ELF feul worked okay :-) 216km/h ( pug clock) on the A39, > >I knew it would be OK, considering the results on my 205D (and those on my > >cousin's XAD). > mind you that i fidled aroung with timing, injector window and turbo > presure in the ECU, and mounted a K&N filter Yup, but I meant this fuel offers good performance. > >Ouch, 216KPH on a motorway, you're damn lucky the speedtraps doen't concern > >foreign cars ! > You bet, my friend though got a ?90 fine for doing 170, Possibly with "classic" speedtraps (with cops to stop them), not with automatic speedtraps. > rather cheap though if you compare that to Holland ( some ?500 and > revoking your licence for some time) eeeeeeeeeeek ! > there AFIAK only speedtraps around thionvile on the A31 > I got my self framed though @ the third Sarco in metz, thought there > were two :-( They install speedtraps almost every week. I've heard of a site showing them : www.radarsfixes.com (I got the URL by a friend yesterday, I haven't tried it). All I can tell you is I saw two of them last time I was around Paris, on the highway, no flash no bill :-) > did not get the ticket though Sure you'll never receive it. I read an article saying that the Sarkoboxes "made" 2.1 millions fines, with 700,000 of them for foreign cars, which are not treated due to the lack of an european car plate file. > >Sure, not often driven under 180KPH, true ? > errhh none! the 234 ( it might be 235 i did not look all that long) > was @ a moderate downslope, ti shivered slight ly @ 220, and then went > on to the red zone on the rpm gauge Wow ! Really the max speed, as the red zone is around 5k RPM on this car (from memory, around 5200, but I may be wrong). This amazed me, as the XUD7 (and possibly 9, although I never checked) already has a max revving of 5100RPM (before regulation) - and this can be considered as a fast Diesel. Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st >Hi Marc, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> forwards again after the test >True. Er... I've heard it was easier on a Roto pump than on a Bosch, true ? yup the Roto pump is far more easier, you rip of the sealing ring and then turn it clockwise readjust the stationairy RPM ( it has gone up..) readjust the max rpm ( otherwise you wreck your engine pretty quick) take the stupid round foam filter out and put another one in lube with shel helix ultra 0w30 MPG is as poor as you can get it, passing a MOT test is reseting it to original. >> >> with two 12 volt axial fans, same top speed, lots more torque, >> >Kind of forced air inlet ? >> My very own interpertation of a supercharger :-) it even had a >It looks like a supercharger, but I didn't want to write this term :-) as said it was my own interpretation :-) if worked ok as long as it lasted, no my mum drives my old 305 and she is more into fuel economy so i did put the original parts in >> pressure adjustment knob, >> the presure itself was on and about 800Mbar over normal >800mbar is over the max pressure you get with a DTurbo (600mbar according >the the data I've got here). hmm i always thought it was a little under 1bar for a XUD9TE , thnx for the info also an XUD9TE fits in a 305, making it dangerously fast http://www.peugeot305.co.uk/images.asp?Category=60 mine is also on that site, >> >Must be great :-) My brother used to pass the Golf TDi 90HP with his '91 >> >205DTurbo, he said it was great fun. Oh, the DTurbo is still fine, even [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >fast-cornering, as the DTurbo chassis (same as 1.6GTi) offers this >possibility). yeah the morvan has some great roads to corner, once did Beaune Autun in just over 26 minutes...( dark night) got overteken though by somthing so fast i couldn't tell what it was, it was red though.... maybe your brother :-) ? Eating an MR2 is not an easy task, a friend on me has one and it is damn quick in the corners to >Possibly with "classic" speedtraps (with cops to stop them), not with >automatic speedtraps. yup and pay or stay was the deal :-( told him that ( he has an audi A4 ) doing over 200 the fliques probably wont even have noticed him:-) ( remember scene from TAXI III, where JL Schlesser and Luc Besson baby sit a speedtrap and the Taxi goes to damn fast for the radar to be noticed) >> rather cheap though if you compare that to Holland ( some ?500 and >> revoking your licence for some time) >eeeeeeeeeeek ! I TRY to keep my foot as lite as posible, also the cruise control helps avoiding these speed fines Doing over 50km/h to fast is bey bey drivers license, the max speed on moterway's is 120km/h so you get fined pretty quick :-(((( on the other hand it is almost impossible to drive to fast because of the traffic jam which is almost 24/7 . so i'm genuinely sorry for bulking out the smoke on french moterway's >> there AFIAK only speedtraps around thionvile on the A31 >> I got my self framed though @ the third Sarco in metz, thought there [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >"made" 2.1 millions fines, with 700,000 of them for foreign cars, which are >not treated due to the lack of an european car plate file. So that is a matter of time then:-( got a german "geldstraffe" just two weeks after being flashed, that is even faster then they get it to you if your fined over here, much proof for german punctuality >> >Sure, not often driven under 180KPH, true ? >> errhh none! the 234 ( it might be 235 i did not look all that long) [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >(and possibly 9, although I never checked) already has a max revving of >5100RPM (before regulation) - and this can be considered as a fast Diesel. the DW10 goes redidsh @ 5000, and red around 5200 true, i never hit it though on a flat road the xud9 goes straight trough the roof up to 5600 if you fiddle with the ROTO pump, it sounds like a WWII bomber then. you realy want to limit that to 5000 Grrzz Marc >>> >> with two 12 volt axial fans, same top speed, lots more torque, >>> >Kind of forced air inlet ? >>> My very own interpertation of a supercharger :-) it even had a >>It looks like a supercharger, but I didn't want to write this term :-) you might find this intresting http://www.turbonator.com/faq.html >as said it was my own interpretation :-) if worked ok as long as it >lasted, no my mum drives my old 305 and she is more into fuel economy >so i did put the original parts in > you might find this intresting > > http://www.turbonator.com/faq.html These devices do absolutely nothing whatsoever. They are a scam. Their worthlessness is well documented ! Hi, > >800mbar is over the max pressure you get with a DTurbo (600mbar according > >the the data I've got here). (Sorry, I should have written XUD7T). > hmm i always thought it was a little under 1bar for a XUD9TE , thnx > for the info XUD9TE max pressure is around 950mb. > also an XUD9TE fits in a 305, making it dangerously fast True it fits. And, although I've never heard of such mod, yes it must be fast as hell (hell you won't reach late if you ever forget it's a 305) ! > yeah the morvan has some great roads to corner, once did Beaune Autun > in just over 26 minutes...( dark night) got overteken though by Not really a long time. 46km, 26min gives an avg speed of 106KPH. Pffffffffff ! > somthing so fast i couldn't tell what it was, it was red though.... > maybe your brother :-) ? Nope, his car is white. See the lightweight bullet at http://205d.fr.st/205d/galerie/dturbo_ago/ :-) And his motorbike is dark green (kind of english green), but I guess it's less effective into curves (Yam 600 Diversion) :-) > Eating an MR2 is not an easy task, a friend on me has one and it is > damn quick in the corners to Perhaps it was just the driver which was too slow on curves :-) > >Possibly with "classic" speedtraps (with cops to stop them), not with > >automatic speedtraps. > yup and pay or stay was the deal :-( Common deal. Sometimes it's just stay here, say goodbye to your licence. > told him that ( he has an audi A4 ) doing over 200 the fliques > probably wont even have noticed him:-) Damn pure french slang, BTW the term of flique(s) can have 2 spellings : flic(s) or flique(s). > ( remember scene from TAXI III, where JL Schlesser and Luc Besson baby > sit a speedtrap and the Taxi goes to damn fast for the radar to be > noticed) This can happen, the 1st radars we had in France (Mesta 102, 1963) was unable to take speeds above 140kph. stop dreaming, they're all out for a while. Then replaced by 206 (don't know when), white barbecue, then again by Mesta 208 (big kaki bullet, less visible of course) which were unreliable above 250KPH. Now, laser radars (like Sagem's Eurolaser) possibly have limitations, but I don't know them. > >> rather cheap though if you compare that to Holland ( some ?500 and > >> revoking your licence for some time) > >eeeeeeeeeeek ! > I TRY to keep my foot as lite as posible, also the cruise control > helps avoiding these speed fines Sure, the cruise control has more success because of politics than because of drivers' choice. > Doing over 50km/h to fast is bey bey drivers license, the max speed on > moterway's is 120km/h so you get fined pretty quick :-(((( Mmmm, same here, 130KPH on motorways, 110KPH when rainy, pretty easy (moreover when rainy). > on the other hand it is almost impossible to drive to fast because of > the traffic jam which is almost 24/7 . so i'm genuinely sorry for > bulking out the smoke on french moterway's Come on, that's not a problem, we pay a specific tax on fuel for that. > >Sure you'll never receive it. I read an article saying that the Sarkoboxes > >"made" 2.1 millions fines, with 700,000 of them for foreign cars, which are > >not treated due to the lack of an european car plate file. > So that is a matter of time then:-( got a german "geldstraffe" just Mmmm, yeah, enjoy it till then ! > two weeks after being flashed, that is even faster then they get it > to you if your fined over here, much proof for german punctuality :-) > >> >Sure, not often driven under 180KPH, true ? > >> errhh none! the 234 ( it might be 235 i did not look all that long) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the DW10 goes redidsh @ 5000, and red around 5200 true, i never hit it > though on a flat road Happily ! > the xud9 goes straight trough the roof up to 5600 if you fiddle with > the ROTO pump, it sounds like a WWII bomber then. you realy want to > limit that to 5000 Having driven my XUD7 up to the "original" 5100/5200RPM (theorically 5100, but never checked that) makes me imagine the noise over 5600. May well be dangerous for the engine / pump. Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Alex Alex, I have this exact car, in estate form. I must say that mine does not stop pulling strongly until just after 4000Rpm, so I suspect you timing is wrong or your valve clearances might need adjusting. Mine has done 144k miles now, it's still limping along, but I suspect the turbo may be on it's last legs. I took the car to a diesel tuner, who for approx ?60, altered the timing of the 'manual' diesel pump to up the power slightly without any smoke (approx 120Bhp I think). *Warning* - It does seem to use slightly more fuel though. (45mpg on a run at *cough* *90'ish*) This car does not have a very fancy ECU, it's a very old design engine, the most technically advanced thing about it is the 12valve head, I think the ECU only controls emissions or something. They are very old design diesels, the HDI unit is far superior technologically, just shame about there fuel lift pumps breaking up... Another good modification is to fit a larger and more efficient Intercooler, or try cleaning yours out as they fill up with leaves and crud, this will give much better 'top end' Andy |
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