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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / March 2005307 and dead battery cell - is somebody having me on
Hi all, December last year my 307 (15 months old at the time) cut out whilst I was driving. All the electronics switched off, stayed off for maybe 2 seconds, then came back on but the car wouldn't run and there was a smell of burning. Turns out it was the starter motor that had burned out - a problem that seems to be not unknown on the 307. The dealer changed the starter motor, but despite my objections did not try to ascertain why the thing had been spinning away in the first place. Last week same thing happens again - well according to me. But the dealer says that the car shut down because it detected a dead cell in the battery. Are they having me on? This would be the first car I've owned that would have this "feature". I can't dispute their findings about the battery but all I'd expect is that the car wouldn't start after stalling or being turned off. As it was the car had started happily enough about 10 minutes prior to the breakdown. And this seems like a pretty dubious "feature". What if I'd been in the middle of nowhere and the car had detected a dud cell in the battery and decided to shut itself down? Hi, > Last week same thing happens again - well according to me. But the > dealer says that the car shut down because it detected a dead cell in > the battery. A dead cell on the battery means that (in the common case of a broken cell) the voltage with no load will be approximatively good, but will drop slightly under load (you just find the nominal voltage of remaining cells, in case of 1 broken element on a 12V batt, it would be ~12V). With the huge load required by starter (over 1500W under 12V, you can plan on 100A) the battery's voltage should be approx. 7V or so (I guess some experienced car electricians will confirm that), anyway not enough to run the starter. > Are they having me on? This would be the first car I've owned that > would have this "feature". I can't dispute their findings about the The 307 brings a lot of electronics (CAN / VAN buses, microprocessors, memories and so on), which usually runs at 5V. Electronic elements don't like too low voltages, which may cause undesired operation & / or data corruption. That's the reason why embeeded electronics often have a voltage monitor which stops the system if the voltage is too low or too high. I don't think that's your problem, as when engine is running there is far enough voltage (approx. 13.5V) run car's electronics. If the car is still under warranty, try to have a replacement battery. Sometime it's just so strange you wouldn't have thought of this. HTH, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > experienced car electricians will confirm that), anyway not enough to run > the starter. And as noted, the car had started just a few minutes earlier. I told them that their explanation didn't fit the facts and that whilst I'm sure the battery is dodgy now that they're fixing the symptom not the problem. Dealer has checked further and now says that something in the car is causing an abnormally high load on the battery. 29111 Ks on the clock and 4th time in the garage (excluding scheduled maintenance). A pity as it's a great car to drive. This is the most trouble I've ever had with a car, and I'm trading this one in once it's fixed. Probably I'll go for the Civic hatch - bland but reliable. Thanks for the reply. > I told them that their explanation didn't fit the facts and that whilst > I'm sure the battery is dodgy now that they're fixing the symptom not > the problem. Dealer has checked further and now says that something in > the car is causing an abnormally high load on the battery. Latest story is "the manufacturer left some bits out of the starter motor". Which is so implausible it might actually be true. However Pegueot are not willing to give a copy of the job card or any kind of service record other than a stamp in the hand book for a 30 000 km service. Which is pretty odd. In case anybody's about to ask - no, I don't have the car back yet. > Hi all, > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > middle of nowhere and the car had detected a dud cell in the battery > and decided to shut itself down? I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. I believe it was said to be a problem in the switch. Pug denied there was a problem but an independent expert said that he would not even park beside one. > I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because > they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. I > believe it was said to be a problem in the switch. Pug denied there was a > problem but an independent expert said that he would not even park beside > one. Wasn't that s much as anything to do with the aluminium bonnet being flammable? I just have a vague memory of it. Androo >> I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because >> they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Wasn't that s much as anything to do with the aluminium bonnet being > flammable? I just have a vague memory of it. WHAT!!! - I owned a volvo 760 estate for 5 years, that has a peugot v6 engine under the hood and an aluminium one at that, that never caught fire. What a load of toss, a car cannot catch fire because it has an aluminium bonnet. More likely because it has french car electrics! Andy > Androo <snip> > More likely because it has french car electrics! > > Andy You could be on to something here.... Teddyboy >>> I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because >>> they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > What a load of toss, a car cannot catch fire because it has an aluminium > bonnet. More likely because it has french car electrics! True. Mined ewe if the car got hot enough the aluminium would burn like magnesium (same periodic table group). I believe that's what happened to some of our ships in the Falklands. So if you see someone with an Exocet...  SignatureMalc its a vague memory no more .... http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/reports/transport11.shtml > I seem to remember that the 307 made it onto Watchdog on the BBC because > they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. I > believe it was said to be a problem in the switch. Pug denied there was a > problem but an independent expert said that he would not even park beside > one. Yep. They're denying it here (South Africa) too. Crazy... this car had 29111 km when it got to the dealer on Friday and will be on it's 3rd starter - which must be costing somebody money. Why don't they just fix whatever the actual problem is and save some money? Thanks for the reply Bob Hi, > they were catching fire, allegedly due to the starter motor staying on. I > believe it was said to be a problem in the switch. Pug denied there was a There was a problem with the switch (metal particles into the steering lock), which affected almost all 307s built until 2003 IIRC. This caused a recall from Peugeot. Most of times, the fail consisted of a blocked unit (no way to turn the key), sometimes blocked while in D (starter) position. The problem should be corrected for a while. I have to say that a starter staying on (i.e current into the solenoid, this involving the starter to run (like on any car)) makes a terrific noise. And I'm surprised the "victims" just don't hear it ! Just test it if you don't believe me, apply the starter until the engine runs, and keep on running the starter a little while after... 1 second should be far enough. > problem but an independent expert said that he would not even park beside > one. Sometimes, what the independant experts say doesn't worth a penny. Aluminium starts to fond around 600?C (1112?F) if I remember my physics lessons correctly, and the only occasion to have it damaged is when the whole car burns (or the engine burns, as we're talking about the bonnet). My brother told me he saw a stolen Audi A8 which was burnt by the thugs, it was pretty low when it came back to the garage (like the roof at the level of the dashboard). Full aluminium bodikit, of course. Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st The fault is caused by the ignition key switch sticking in the starter "ON" position causing the starter motor to run continually. The very high current heats up the wiring and electrics etc. A fire is then caused. My own 307 was recalled for a new switch before this occured. It should have been done some time ago. Hi, > The fault is caused by the ignition key switch sticking in the starter "ON" > position causing the starter motor to run continually. > The very high current heats up the wiring and electrics etc. A fire is then > caused. Of course. I read my post and saw that I explained the sticky steering lock problem, whitout explaining why a fire can occur. Cheers, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > g.t6@worldonline.fr > 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st You see, more French car electrics! - Why can't French car manufacturers get the electrics correct? There mechanicals are usually top notch. Andy > You see, more French car electrics! - Why can't French car > manufacturers get the electrics correct? How do you mean? Like the british? LOL I grew up with British cars. My father has been driving Jaguar since I was a baby. You know, why the XJ6 had twin fuel tanks and twin fuel pumps? So that normally one of the fuel pumps would work. And if none of them worked, you would have to open the luggage compartment and tap them with a screwdriver or something. That would often help. Only trouble is, that occasionally one of the fuel tanks would leak, and one of the fuel meters didn't work. And it was a little erratic, which faults applied to which fuel tank. As an American once wrote in his signature: Lucas invented the intermittent wiper. And the intermittent headlights, the intermittent starter, the intermittent fuel pump etc. But I can see, you have solved the problem with British car electrics efficiently: By shutting down the entire British car industry. SignatureVenlig hilsen Henrik Münster Esbjerg >> You see, more French car electrics! - Why can't French car >> manufacturers get the electrics correct? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > intermittent wiper. And the intermittent headlights, the intermittent > starter, the intermittent fuel pump etc. The electrics and any other bought-in components on any car, regardless of nationality, are as good as the manufacturer of that car is willing to pay for. Ron Robinson >>> You see, more French car electrics! - Why can't French car >>> manufacturers get the electrics correct? [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > nationality, are as good as the manufacturer of that car is willing to pay > for. And are probably made in China anyway. |
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