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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / March 2005Approx cost of brake work (Pug 306, 1998)
Hi, I just had our 1998 Pug 306 brakes checked at a Nationwide Autocentre branch and found that work needed to be done. I noticed that the rear brake drum was occasionally seizing after applying the handbrake. Seeing as the shoes probably needed replacement (probably overdue) I took it in for check - expected just needing to get the shoes replaced. Well, the cylinders had 'exploded' (looked okay to me, but oily grime was all over the inside of the hub etc. The work they say is needed is - prices are from memory - although total is accurate): Replace front discs (> ?50) Replace front pads (> ?50) Replace rear cylinders (> ?110 per side - Bosch apparently, so 'very expensive') Replace rear shoes (can't remember the figure - but around ?50, give or take ?20 or so) De-lip drums (?32 - else will knacker new shoes) Brake fluid flush (?36) Total ?464 inc VAT etc Does this sound reasonable to people? I wasn't expecting the front stuff to need replacing (pads replaced in mid-2002 by Pug, that was the last brake work done on the car) - although I had noticed that when at walking pace, when applying the brakes gently I had noticed a very feint pulsing in the braking effect co-inciding with wheel revolution - warped discs? I also wasn't expecting the cylinders to be > ?110 per side! Apparently its because they are Bosch ones, whereas if they'd been Lucas etc they'd be more like ?50 each. I felt ripped off (personal feeling, not necessarily fair) as I had not expected such a high price, and was unable to negotiate a better deal elsewhere as they have all the wheels off and say the car is unsafe to drive (probably fair, and understandable). I also need the car for tomorrow (they say it'll be done for 5pm this evening), so no time to check with other garages about prices. I think its more then inability to confirm the prices and the situation (price, timing etc) that makes me feel ripped off. Anyway - does this sound reasonable? In my mind I was expecting more like ?200+ - although I failed to estimate the cost of the cylinders, and wasn't including/expecting any front brake work. Thanks David  Signature> Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > David The last brake work I did on a Peugeot was on a 405, I used pattern parts, prices were; Brake disks ?12 each Brake pads ?12 Brake shoes ?15 Rear cylinders ?8 each Brake fluid for flush ?2 It was all suprisingly easy too, half a day taking it easy. Try a small independant garage, not a fast-fitup type place. SignatureTony Bond / UncleFista www.bradford7.co.uk Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra. Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath. At night the ice-weasels come... > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > David ================== Have a look here for some comparisons: www.gsfcarparts.com The quote for rear cylinders looks very high; I think that different brands are interchangeable BUT check with a local shop to be sure. This seems to be a clear case of shopping around before you buy! Cic. >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Cic. I would normally do this - however in this situation I put it in for a check - not expecting the car to be then classed as unsafe to drive. I'm planning on getting a written quotation from elsewhere (maybe a couple of places - including Peugeot themselves) and if it was obscenely high, I'll try and reclaim the money - for what its worth. ?45 on GSFCarParts vs ?110+ from Nationwide Autocentre. Must admit, no idea of labour charges - I assume they've hidden them in their quoted prices, so may not be directly interchangable. David >>> I felt ripped off (personal feeling, not necessarily fair) as I had >>> not expected such a high price, and was unable to negotiate a better >>> deal elsewhere as they have all the wheels off and say the car is >>> unsafe to drive (probably fair, and understandable). >I would normally do this - however in this situation I put it in for a >check - not expecting the car to be then classed as unsafe to drive. This seems a very common trick amongst the fast-fit places; offer a 'free check' and then claim that they can't release the car until the work is done. I had the Citroen into a fast-fit place for a new clutch the other week (local garages couldn't get within 50 quid, if they'd been closer I'd have given them the work) and I made sure to tick the "no" box on all of the "would you like a free check on..." boxes. It's certainly sharp practice, IMO, but is it legal? SignatureSteve Walker >>>> I felt ripped off (personal feeling, not necessarily fair) as I had >>>> not expected such a high price, and was unable to negotiate a better [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > It's certainly sharp practice, IMO, but is it legal? No, its not legal, no garage has the right to with hold your property (ie) car, even if in there opinion, the car is defective, after examining the car they have a duty to bring it to your attention ,and recommend that you should not drive it due to the defect, but the nominated repairer is your choice, either trailer it or tow it away, your choice, Fitzy actually i do believe they can hold your car if it is dangerous to drive it. But the key is dangerous as in will cause someone else harm if driven. As to the cost, face it, you got ripped off. You live and learn. Rear wheel cylinders are ?30 fitted each at my local halfords/kwik fit type centre (Moto-save) for a 205. >>>>> I felt ripped off (personal feeling, not necessarily fair) as I had >>>>> not expected such a high price, and was unable to negotiate a better [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > choice, > Fitzy > > No, its not legal, > > no garage has the right to with hold your property (ie) car, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > nominated repairer is your choice, either trailer it or tow it away, your > > choice, > actually i do believe they can hold your car if it is dangerous to drive it. > But the key is dangerous as in will cause someone else harm if driven. > As to the cost, face it, you got ripped off. You live and learn. Rear wheel > cylinders are £30 fitted each at my local halfords/kwik fit type centre > (Moto-save) for a 205. They may be able to hold your car (which I doubt) but they cannot stop you having it towed away elsewhere. Scottish Peugeot main dealer - 2 X Brake Cylinders (306DT - part numbers VQ793 and VQ794) - £70.26 - supplied and fitted including VAT using overpriced Pug parts. I feel for those getting charged extortionate prices down south. Jim SignatureRemove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html >> > No, its not legal, >> > no garage has the right to with hold your property (ie) car, [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Jim Exactly right Jim, The garage cannot stop you from removing your car , either by tow or trailer, from there premises, even if there is a disputed outstanding bill, the correct procedure would be for the garage to come to a compromise with you, or pursue it through the small claims court, but they cannot withhold your car, ?70-00 to ?80-00 is what I would expect to pay for this repair here in the north west, Fitzy > >> Hi, > >> [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > David ================ It would be well worth getting a quotation as you suggest. There was a case (brought by Trading Standards in Midlands) which broadly stated that a customer is entitled to be charged a 'fair price' for spares. Although this case concerned a plumber / gas fitter I think that the general idea is the same - prices for spares must not be excessively marked up. Cic. >I would normally do this - however in this situation I put it in for a >check - not expecting the car to be then classed as unsafe to drive. I'm [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >David Ah, GSF, nice site. Looks like my garage gave me a fair price for my discs and pads anyway. Anybody know of a similar site for Ford parts? SignatureMike Buckley RD350LC2 http://www.toastyhamster.org BONY#38 The message <qzZa6hm4C0ICFw0t@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> from "mike. buckley" <mike@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words: > Anybody know of a similar site for Ford parts? www.brakeparts.co.uk SignatureSkipweasel. In the beginning was the word. And the word was Aardvark. >The message <qzZa6hm4C0ICFw0t@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> >from "mike. buckley" <mike@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> contains these [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >www.brakeparts.co.uk I meant for all Ford spares, not just brake bits. Thanks anyway. SignatureMike Buckley RD350LC2 http://www.toastyhamster.org BONY#38 "mike. buckley" <mike@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message > Ah, GSF, nice site. Looks like my garage gave me a fair price for my > discs and pads anyway. > > Anybody know of a similar site for Ford parts? Not bad prices here for various motors www.buypartsby.co.uk > I would normally do this - however in this situation I put it in for a > check - not expecting the car to be then classed as unsafe to drive. I'm > planning on getting a written quotation from elsewhere (maybe a couple of > places - including Peugeot themselves) and if it was obscenely high, I'll > try and reclaim the money - for what its worth. IMO, tell them to f.ck right off. They might have been right about the parts needed, they might not. They might be right about the prices (I somehow doubt it, I can uprate my entire 30 year old system with semi custom parts for half that!), but any garage that'd confiscate my car till I paid them to fix it would be on the wrong end of a tirade. Just tell them you are now aware of the risks involved in driving the car, and you are going to simply drive home at a much reduced pace whilst you consider what to do next. Also might be worth having a word with a friendly small MOT place, chuck them a few quid to put it on the tester and ramps while you watch. Plus of course, have a good look yourself, check if the fluid level is low, look for leaks around the rears, etc, just to make sure they're not pulling an ever faster one. >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Total £464 inc VAT etc :-O Get another quote!! 32 quid to de lip the drums? Jeez, a quick run round with an angle grinder! Rear cylinders sounds dodgy, but www.eurocarparts.com doesn't seem to list them, so not too sure. Front disks and pads came to about 130 quid when I had mine done at the local garage (not a dealer), so that's not too far off. Sounds pricey anyway. SignatureMike Buckley RD350LC2 http://www.toastyhamster.org BONY#38 The message <002tLqlEuzICFwG0@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> from "mike. buckley" <mike@toastyhamster.freeserve.co.uk> contains these words: > Rear cylinders sounds dodgy, but www.eurocarparts.com doesn't seem to > list them, so not too sure. www.brakeparts.co.uk list several, depending on which model. Some are cheap - some are very expensive. Since he mentions drums I assume it'll be a cylinder not a caliper. Cylinder seem to vary between a tenner and fifteen quid. Whatever, the whole thing sounds like a major rip-off. You can get new drums for not far off the cost they're threatening for grinding. SignatureSkipweasel. In the beginning was the word. And the word was Aardvark. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > as the shoes probably needed replacement (probably overdue) I took it in > for check - expected just needing to get the shoes replaced. The initial problem I would guess is either a sticking handbrake cable, or the levers on the brake shoes seized. > Well, the cylinders had 'exploded' (looked okay to me, but oily grime was > all over the inside of the hub etc. The work they say is needed is - > prices are from memory - although total is accurate): Wheel cyclinder don't 'explode' they leak. If it was me, I'd off been looking to see if the behind the protective boots was wet, as it's known for said garages to soak the rear brakes with some penetrating oil to make it look like they're leakin. > Replace front discs (> ?50) > Replace front pads (> ?50) If this includes labour, it's reasonable. > Replace rear cylinders (> ?110 per side - Bosch apparently, so 'very > expensive') No offense, but WHERE THE f.ck DID THEY FIND THOSE PRICES? most I've ever paid for a wheel cylinder is ?30 a side. > Replace rear shoes (can't remember the figure - but around ?50, give or > take ?20 or so) Reasonable. > De-lip drums (?32 - else will knacker new shoes) For a quick run around with a file, or deburrer in a drill? > Brake fluid flush (?36) On top of replacing the rear cylinders, which they'll have to bleed anyway, i'd be telling them to take a hike on this one. > Total ?464 inc VAT etc > Does this sound reasonable to people? I wasn't expecting the front stuff > to need replacing (pads replaced in mid-2002 by Pug, that was the last > brake work done on the car) - although I had noticed that when at walking > pace, when applying the brakes gently I had noticed a very feint pulsing > in the braking effect co-inciding with wheel revolution - warped discs? Given these symptoms, it's very probably the disks are corroded. > I also wasn't expecting the cylinders to be > ?110 per side! Apparently > its because they are Bosch ones, whereas if they'd been Lucas etc they'd > be more like ?50 each. I'd love to know where they got that price.... > I felt ripped off (personal feeling, not necessarily fair) as I had not > expected such a high price, and was unable to negotiate a better deal > elsewhere as they have all the wheels off and say the car is unsafe to > drive (probably fair, and understandable). The car drove in. As it was a 'free' brake check, there is nothing to stop you from requesting that they put the wheels back. All they can do is advice you that it is unsafe to drive. They have no right to prevent you from removing the car from the garage. If you are that concerned about driving the car, then get a recovery firm to recover it. > I also need the car for tomorrow (they say it'll be done for 5pm this > evening), so no time to check with other garages about prices. I think [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > ?200+ - although I failed to estimate the cost of the cylinders, and > wasn't including/expecting any front brake work. Does not sound reasonable to me, but then again, I'm a mechanic and would be questioning every decision they made. > Replace front discs (> ?50) Could be up to ?40+ for the pair of disks alone. > Replace front pads (> ?50) ?25 for the pads. ?100 for new disks and pads fitted sounds perfectly fine to me, if anything a little low, depending on the spec of the car. > Replace rear cylinders (> ?110 per side - Bosch apparently, so 'very > expensive') <cough>Bollocks</cough> ?15/side for each cylinder. 1-1.5 hours labour for the pair, including fitting the new shoes. > Replace rear shoes (can't remember the figure - but around ?50, give > or take ?20 or so) ?15 for the shoes, have to be removed to do the cylinders anyway. > De-lip drums (?32 - else will knacker new shoes) f.ck my dog. The drums are off anyway. A quick squizz with a linisher or in a lathe. Ten minutes for the pair. > Brake fluid flush (?36) Flush? Yeh, right. As if. The rears will need bleeding anyway, so bleeding through with new fluid's not exactly a vast extra labour - and a very very wise precaution. Perhaps if you'd serviced the car properly in the past, you wouldn't be replacing the rear cylinders now. New fluid every two years - else you get this. > Total ?464 inc VAT etc Bwaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah... > Does this sound reasonable to people? <snigger> <snort> No. > I wasn't expecting the front stuff to need replacing (pads replaced in > mid-2002 by Pug, that was the last brake work done on the car) Three years ago. How many miles? > although I had noticed that when at walking pace, when applying the > brakes gently I had noticed a very feint pulsing in the braking effect > co-inciding with wheel revolution - warped discs? Very probably. > I also wasn't expecting the cylinders to be > ?110 per side! > Apparently its because they are gold plated...? > I felt ripped off > I failed to estimate the cost of the cylinders, Both very understandable... > Hi, > > I just had our 1998 Pug 306 brakes checked at a Nationwide Autocentre > branch Oh dear. > and found that work needed to be done. There's unusual! > Total ?464 inc VAT etc > > Does this sound reasonable to people? Not really. Try to find a trusted "small" garage and ask them to check your brakes for you. Si Mungo "two sheds" Toadfoot wrote: > Not really. Try to find a trusted "small" garage and ask them to > check your brakes for you. I didn't read the last two paragraphs properly - I take it you've had the work done? Next time... :) Si > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > -- The price for the wheelcylinders is madness, the wheel cylinders do contain a pressure release valve and so are rather more expensive than usual ( like about ?30) and they do leak usually at some milage more than 60,000 but before 100,000 and so the shoes etc need changing. The pads are arather too dear too. Try ringing GSF for spares prices ....... or a local Motor Factor ( see yellow pages) ?110 a side ...... the magic mushroom season has begun very early this year steve the grease > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Total £464 inc VAT etc for the following work on a 95 306DT at a Pug main dealer (Hardies in Larbert) new front discs and pads, new rear wheel cylinders and shoes £280 inclusive of labour and VAT This was with genuine overpriced Pug parts. I would suggest they are trying to seriously rip you off. Jim SignatureRemove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html >> Hi, >> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > I would suggest they are trying to seriously rip you off. Hmm, Peugeot in Aldershot just said that would be at least ?400+ for the work, although probably slightly less than the ?464 I paid. I'm going to try again with another Pug dealer but this time not giving them the price I paid before asking the sort of price. I'm not sure if they just said it to placate me (or am I just paranoid??) Thanks David > >> Hi, > >> [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > paid before asking the sort of price. I'm not sure if they just said it to > placate me (or am I just paranoid??) Check out Viking Peugeot in Basingstoke the have a Pug Express Fit dept they might be considerably cheaper. Jim SignatureRemove `spamtrapped` to reply off-list http://jim-mason.fotopic.net/c162491.html > Total ?464 inc VAT etc Blimey, what can I say, somebody put it so well with *Bwahhhhaaaaaahaaaahaaaa* They saw you coming. - Hook, rod, line, sinker and copy of angling times... I replaced on my 406 estate recently with parts from GSF :- new front disks new Front Pads new Front pin-set Full fluid flush with dot5 fluid *Purchased a gunsons easy-bleed* new Full three part hand brake cable set Hand brake lever (Breakers) New Rear disks with centre drum new rear shoes rear callipers (Breakers) - Off a nearly new car, I am not a complete nutter.. new Rear brake backplates (Genuine Peugeot ?90 for two....) 4 new tyres (Conti's) ?180 for set fitted. ......................... All for less than you paid :) Andy - Sorry to be so blunt, but I hate fast-f.ck centres... >> Total ?464 inc VAT etc > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > They saw you coming. - Hook, rod, line, sinker and copy of angling > times... Towards the end of last week I was experiencing the rear drums sticking after applying the handbrake, so I wanted it checked out. Tues/Wed wife needed car to get to work (same every Tues/Wed). Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun I'm unavailable, but need the car to pick things up. Monday lunchtime was the only time I could get it into the garage for a check. Once I noticed a recurring problem with the brakes, I wasn't about to turn a blind eye to it for another week or so. So, I didn't have time to check it myself during the week, and Monday lunchtime was the only available opportunity for getting someone to check it. Now, if I'd known the problem, and the sorts of prices they'd be charging, I'd have done it myself with the advice/help from my Dad who's done brake cylinders etc before. Even paying for their travel + a hotel + new tools and taking unpaid leave would have been cheaper!!! However, once the wheels + drums were all off, and they were saying it was unsafe to drive - it became difficult to see any other option than to just accept the charge and try and sort it out later. Knowing that I was late back to work after lunch (and had a 30 min walk still to do, not to mention another to pick it up before 5pm) and that the car was needed 7am the next day - I couldn't see me being able to get other quotes, arrange it to be picked up and fixed the same day. What I hoped to be a check to confirm I needed new rear shoes turned out to be a ransom to get the car back. Very annoying as I'm normally someone who gets 3 quotes before any work gets done, and is always very cautious about being ripped off. This time I just didn't have the time! Typical!! Thanks David >>> Total ?464 inc VAT etc >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > David It's called "being over a barrel" and I am sure we've all been there at some time, I know I have, and it always stings the wallet and the pride. Keith >>>> Total ?464 inc VAT etc >>> [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > pride. > Keith My local garage who I normally use is being an absolute star in doing a full quote for the work so I can show them what it should be like - even though they know they won't get a penny for it (except in future work!). Unfortuntately Nationwide Autocentre failed to put parts numbers on their invoice, so they're going to quote on the most expensive items, rather than what they actually put on the car. Peugeot have quoted: Front discs + pads - ?169.99 Rear cylinders + shoes - ?189.99 De-lip rear drums - ?20.56 Brake fluid change - ?24.99 Total = ?405.53 For comparison - I was charged ?464. So even using a Peugeot main dealer using Peugeot parts would have saved me ?60. I expect a bigger saving from my local garage. Next thing is to check out their 'price promise' T&C's and see whether I can make a claim under that (which may make things easier). Thanks David >>>>> Total ?464 inc VAT etc >>>> [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > David You may find, on their paperwork, that they belong to a trade organisation which, in turn, may offer some form of customer arbitration service that you can take advantage of. Otherwise, short of the Small Claims Court there doesn't seem to be much you can do, unless of course they apologise and refund part of your money (flying pig alert!!). Keith >>>>>> Total ?464 inc VAT etc >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > (flying pig alert!!). > Keith Well, my local garage came in with a price of between ?380 (for the cheapest parts) and ?550 (for the most expensive - eg. vented discs etc). Fair enough as without seeing what's fitted to the car orwhat was removed they cannot be sure what's required - eg. cylinder sizes. When I gave them Peugeot's prices they said it sounded like it would be the cheaper end. So - now that I've been told of those prices, I'll see what I can do. All told though, I was ripped off, but not by as much as I originally thought. David As previous posters have said these w.nking 'free tests' are a gimmick to get you in and give you a load of bull about things needing replacing. Once they've got you they'll practically disable the car and give it all the bull about, 'unsafe to let you continue driving it in its present condition' etc. Get one more quote if you can then pop down on a weekend morning about 10.30am (busiest time of the week) and ask to see the manager. Don't get taken into any little rooms, just vent your spleen at the main reception desk questioning their ethics, how come a main dealer is quoting significantly less for the same work, your going to trading standards/local paper etc. It should get you some money back, lose them a few customers and most rewarding of all give you some pride back. I'm sad, but I love going off the deep end when someone's tried to get the missus to part with wads just to change some oil and a filter. Good luck, don't let the gits get away with it. The message <WxjVd.411$QA3.10@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> from "David Hearn" <dave@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> contains these words: > Front discs + pads - ?169.99 Cor - are they gold plated or something? SignatureSkipweasel. In the beginning was the word. And the word was Aardvark. > The message <WxjVd.411$QA3.10@newsfe5-gui.ntli.net> > from "David Hearn" <dave@NOswampieSPAM.org.uk> contains these words: > >> Front discs + pads - ?169.99 > > Cor - are they gold plated or something? If they are, don't use them, they will be rubish at stopping the car over 5mph. Andy >>>Front discs + pads - £169.99 >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Andy At that price I wouldn't use them in case I wore them out! Chris SignatureRemove prejudice to reply Have you tried talking to your local trading standards organisation. They are often aware or rogue practices on these type of organisations. They often will have a word for you or it may be just the last case they need to start a prosecution. Always insist on all the original parts before you have work done and pay the bill. It is quite interesting the reaction you get and often the work is nolonger so urgent. Mike > >>>Front discs + pads - ?169.99 > >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Remove prejudice to reply |
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