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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / June 2005FAP particular filer
Hi, My Peugeot 406 2,0 HDI has a FAP particular filter. I am looking for the fuel additive produced made by the company "Rhodia Electronics & Catalysis" the product is called EOLYS. More information can be found on: http://www.rhodia-ec.com/site_ec_us/catalysis/page_automotive.htm The car has a first generation FAP filter that needs service each 80.000 KM. Where can I buy the EOLYS product online, cheap? TIH > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > TIH you will also need the diagnostic equipment to tell the ecu you have refilled it unless of course you simply want to supply your own no offence.. but you sure it has a p.e.f. on it? a 406 2.0 hdi dw10ated 110 (rhz) in chassis number don't have 'em on. earliest fitted was 607 dw12 and 406 d9 dw12 all dpx 42 .all the best mark Hi, My car has the DW10ATED engine with 107 HP, And yes it has the particular filter, I allready changed it once. But insted of driving 80.000 KM before changing it, the additive tank was refilled af 100.000 KM and the fiter was replaced at 130.000 KM. But why does the ECU need to now how much additiv you added to the tank? Does anyone have experience with refilling the addivite tank? TIH Hi, My car has the DW10ATED engine with 107 HP, And yes it has the particular filter, I allready changed it once. But insted of driving 80.000 KM before changing it, the additive tank was refilled af 100.000 KM and the fiter was replaced at 130.000 KM. But why does the ECU need to now how much additiv you added to the tank? Does anyone have experience with refilling the addivite tank? Must be a odd-ball then cos i work on these bags of sh.t every day of my life ,whats in the chassis number is it rhz?,I wouldn't moan as you have done well to get 100 grand out of it.you ARE supposed to replace the p.e.f. then top-up the tank AT THE SAME TIME.E.c.u needs to know how much cerine is in the tank so in turn then it will know how much has been deposited in the p.e.f.(ive never known cerine run out b4 the service life of the filter has) sounds like you keep a insanely small amount of derv in the tank or you have a problem Hi Mark, The no. is VF38BRHSF 81517234. Another thing i think you can help me with: ok, today the car had starting problems again, after cranking the starter for 3 minutes with out starting, then I disconnected the x3 connecter to the pressure sensor on the Rail it self. Then I tried to start the engine again and it started after trying for 4 sec. almost a normal start, but it was like the engine had a hard time gaining rpm. Then the engine management light ofcause came on, and the display said “Anti Pollution Fault”, while the engine was running I connected the red x3 connector to the pressure sensor again. I then drove the car non stop for about 200KM with out any problems, driving at about 140km/h on the highway. I the reset the engine management warning, by disconnecting the battery for about 1 hour, and the connecting it again and starting the car without any problem, and with not engine management fault. Infact I changed the pressure sensor on the rail just one week ago, so I don’t thin it has anything to do with this sensor. Mark you wrote earlier, that when I disconnected the connector to the Rail sensor, the ECU would adjust the injection duration, what else could effect the duration? TIH Hi again, I just installed a new fuel low pressure pump, without any effect on the starting problems. I think there is a faulty sensor or Vacuum unit, but what can I do? TIH I think this particular filter is called a 'particulate' filter... DW10ATED<< this is a rare engine in your car 406 (d9) in fact ive never seen one!!. I myself have a d9 rhz dw10ated without p.e.f a 53 plate .so my thoughts are yours is an import or one of the very last ones built .when i say rare i just mean rare in the 406 ,but this engine is pretty common in other variants i.e. 307( tons!), 607's(a few),807's (a few) even though now they stopped making this engine type going onto dv6ted (same h/p as ours 110 bhp but less cc 1.6). ok your prob... first of all, please mate don't change any bits untill we are 150% sure what the prob is ,to me it sounds like a fuel pressure problem ,but its hard not physically being at the vehicle.also when you disconnect the battery it doesn't completely erase the fault code it leaves a intermittent fault .if i were you just for the sake of a few £££ take it to the dealer just to get the faults read on the diag/pps machine(diagnostic computers) then we can go from there .where are you based ?, as you could take it to us and i'll read em myself for free as a favour .other things you can check in the mean time if you want are>> when cranking the tacho should flicker on the instrument panel this means the engine mangement e.c.u. is seeing a engine speed sensor signal (a rare fault though on this engine to be honest ,but don't rule it out!!),when switching ign key on you should feel a slight buzz on the fuel filter inlet pipe (white connector) for around 5 secs this means the low pressure pump is working (but the pressure may still be low though) i know you have replaced it but this check then proves the bm34 is working (a relay with a ecu in it). another one is to try easy start take off the air filter and spray it in the engine when some one is cranking the engine.This sounds a bit mad but if your high pressure pump is weak and not creating enough pressure,the engine will run off the easy start to bring it up to 120 bar which is just enough to start . Try these for now all the best mark Hi Mark, Thanks. The bm34 where is it located on the car? I can see on the electrical diagram, in my haynes manuel, that there should be at "Engine Management multifunction relay" (it should be a 15 pole brown relay). But where the f* is it installed? maybe the DW10ATED does note have one? Maybe the bm34 = to whate haynes calles the "Engine Management multifunction relay" Do you want me to spray diesel in the air intake? br. TIH hi Tih H ,the 406 you have is multiplexed mate. your right the bm34 has taken the place of the 15 pin relay .the bm34 is located right next to the battery and has a black lid on it its around 8" long by approx 5" wide .whip the top off it and it will have a green,black,grey plugs on it (and some others!) and various fuses. if you can wait a day or 2 i'll get you the peugeot wiring diagram file. speak soon mark I forgot to mention yes when the vehicle doesn't start ,try EASYSTART not diesel (LOL) in the air inlet.. as you probably know yourself you can get it from many motor factor places. al the best mark Hi, Ok, I checked out the bm34 visually yesterday. The print of the bm34 is covered with silicon, but on the backside of the print I could not see any visual damage. It is not easy to get a look on the print from the top, because the fuse connectors are part of the top plastic cover. It appears that there is several relay's and transistors installed on the print. Please get the diagram. It would be cool if you also could get some information on how I can test the unit. I have a feeling this is where my problem is. Mark do you know what the price of a new bm34 is? Many be I should try renewing it?. It appears to me, that occasionally the engine start timing is lost, I can se that the bm34/15pin brown relay, controllers the High pressure regulator valve on the high pressure pump, it also controllers the “inertia switch” (what is that?, and where is it located?) and the low pressure fuel pump. Is there anything that controls (or could block) the air supply to the engine during startup? br TIH Hi mark, Do you know, has there been any Engine ECU Software updates to my cars engine since it was produced in June 2002. Maybe it needs a software update, to the newest version? br. Thomas Hi, This morning the car would not start again (ambient temperature about 8 c), after turning the starter for 1 minute, I injected some Diesel Quick start in the Air intake. Then I tried again, and the engine started after 2 seconds. What can I conclude from this? Is my High-pressure pump weak? TIH >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >TIH Sorry for delay in geting back been mega busy.yes it may well be a weak h/p pump ,you'll need to do it quite a few times though to be 100% it is . if you want any wiring diagrams put your e-mail address on and i can e-mail you some.A software download will only alter the software characteristics to improve running of the vehicle and in other cases mostly if its in a recall to help stop vehicle cutting out etc.. . a download will not cure your problem obviously. all the best mark Hi Mark, The e-mail is. tih @ dou . dk This morning i had to use the "Diesel Quick start" again, and the car started without any diff. This weekend I drove the car from Denmark to Zurich and back again, it will go on the german autobann at about 170 km/h for 5 hours without any signes og problems. There is no lack of power problems at all. I covered 2500 km with a aveage of 14,5 km / liter fuel, not bad with that kind og speed. The problem is only there during statup, could it be a Air leak in the fuel system? that only is there when the car and hoses are cold. What else could I do, to verify that it is a HP problem?. br. TIH >Hi Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > >br. TIH Hi just gonna send you a little wiring diagram as a example.If you need a specific one/sensor tell me as they are all individual.You will need to load the prog svg viewer first which is in the folder im gonna send you .Sorry my mistake i thought you were english!, i was right it would be an import to me a left hand drive here's the spec of your car>>>heated seats electric mirrors electric rear windows presence of particle filter rain sensor electric seats with memory sun roof fold-back mirrors cruise control satellite navigation system option front and rear screen wash HIFI (JBL) amplifier present twin-speed fan present door sill illumination odometer ABS connected by wire gearbox speed sensor alarm option CD changer option all the best mark Hi Mark, I need the electrical diagram that shows the all sensors etc. that involves in the fuel supply. including the bm 34. br. Thomas >>Hi Mark, >> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > >all the best mark Hi Mark, Ok, now the starting problem is not periodic anymore. Every morning when I start the car with a cold engine, It will not fire. During the last couple of days I used the “Quick start” in the air intake, and the car started ok. But today I tried something different. As you know, I thought the there was an Air leak in the fuel system, and I wanted to verify this theory. First I tried to starting the car without any special help, after 2 minutes without result I stopped trying. I disconnected the pressure sensor one the common rail, and tried to crank the engine again. The car started with some difficulties, slowly gaining rpm. but else It was running ok. After 1 min with the engine running in idle I switched it off. If there was any air in the system it now should have gone. I then reconnected the connector to the rail pressure sensor, and tried to start the engine again. This time the car refused to start. I cranked the engine for 1 minute without results. To verify that it would start again with the pressure sensor disconnected, I then disconnected It again. Then the F* car fired again slowly gaining rpm while the car was running in idle I reconnected the rail pressure sensor connector and took the car for a drive until the engine reached normal operation temperature (The car had no signs of engine problems during the ride). Now I switched the car off, waited for 10 minutes, and tried to start the engine again. The F* engine started like I was brand new. So my conclusion: It can not be an air leak in the fuel system. When I disconnect the rail pressure sensor, the ECU uses a default value for another sensor that has a fault in cold condition. Or Could the High pressure pump be weak?, if so would the engine show other symptoms? I still don’t get any error codes from the ECU, regarding cause of the fault. Mark what could the problem be? Br. Thomas >Hi Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >>all the best mark >Hi Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] >>> >>>all the best mark ok it may well be a weak pump or you may be losing your high pressure from somewhere else.Right when the vehicle doesn't start get a multimeter on the rail pressure sensor(the x3 way red one on the rail) .one pin is 5volts feed from the engine man ecu ,ones a earth,the last one if the output from the sensor ,this is the one we need .At cranking the output should be 1.2/1.3 volts this then we prove the sensor is ok.With it still in the none start state on top of all the injectors you will have rubber leak off pipe .(On all peugeots number 1 cylinder is the flywheel end) On all injectors (EXCEPT CYLINDER 4 INJECTOR) the leak off pipe has 2 outlets one to the left,one to the right.Start with number 1 cylinder injector to the right of it ,it will have a very long return pipe back to the main fuel return pipe ,pull this off from the injector and clamp it off .then on all the other injectors pull of the rubber leak off pipes ,with all the pipes off get someone to crank the engine over then you should get 1/2 drops or slow dripping out of ALL the injectors .check that no injectors are pissing out if one is thats where you are losing your high pressure from .If 1 injector is faulty or more they stand out like a sore thumb .Ive known one to two injectors max to be faulty but no more than this.This is where you may be losing your high pressure from,as it can mask a h/p pump problem which has caught out a few peugeot technicians.... all the best mark Hi Mark, Pressure sensor is ok. I carried the procedure that you described, with the injector return piping. It seems that, only the return hose for the injector mounted on cylinder 1, has a amount of fuel coming out of it. I fact when cranking the engine, there is coming a constant flow of fuel out of it. It is not dripping but more then that. Have we found the fault? Do I need to replace only this injector? Can I repair it? Br. Thomas >>Hi Mark, >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >may be losing your high pressure from,as it can mask a h/p pump problem >which has caught out a few peugeot technicians.... all the best mark >Hi Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Can I repair it? >Thoma Hello mate you need make sure you clamp this one and pull it off no1 injector .As you look at top of injector its the one on the right the long one (gearbox end ).Also its imperative its in the none start stage or else you will get quite a bit of fuel coming out. let me know how you get on ... mark Hi Mark, Ok, Yesterday i replaced the faulty no. 1 injector with a new one. This morning the engine started without any delay or problems :) Mark, thanks a lot for helping me out with this one. Do you think that the other 3 injectors will get the same fault in a short while? Thomas >Hi Mark, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Thomas Hi tih.... n/p any time i don't mind helping people out.Its doubtful the other injectors will just get the same fault to be honest( saying that you never know with cars!) no seriously i haven't had/heard any go faulty in such a short space of time.... keep smiling mark... >> Hi Mark, >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > that you never know with cars!) no seriously i haven't had/heard any > go faulty in such a short space of time.... keep smiling mark... What an excellent thread ! I love it when a plan comes together :D >>> Hi Mark, >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >I love it when a plan comes together :D cheers mate...:-) >>>> Hi Mark, >>>> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> I love it when a plan comes together :D > cheers mate...:-) Mark, are you aware you can post directly to this newsgroup, and bypass the CarKB.com thingy that you're using ? Go get yourself an accuont at http://groups.google.co.uk/ - we are alt.autos.peugeot :) |
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