Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / May 2005
why the made 405 Turbo 16 ?
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el Generale - 12 May 2005 19:46 GMT Why Peugeot made 405 Turbo 16 if they already had great 205 T16? And for what, only for Paris-Dakar rally?
 Signature Pozdro el Generale www.p405.prv.pl
G.T - 12 May 2005 20:45 GMT Hi,
> Why Peugeot made 405 Turbo 16 if they already had great 205 T16? And for > what, only for Paris-Dakar rally? I'll try to make it simple. There's no point between these cars. The 205 T16 was designed for rallying, the Série 200 (200 road vehicles) was made because of the FIA's B-group rules. 1984 was not only the Apple Macintosh's year :-)
The 405 T16 which ran the Paris-Dakar (and some other rallye-raids) did it between 1988 and 1991 (I may be a bit wrong about the dates), after that it was a ZX Grand Raid (because Peugeot wasn't unable to run the rally once again - and after 3 or 4 victories for Citroën the rules changed once again and Citroën was unable to run. Anyway the ZX was just the 405 with a new bodykit). I won't develop here what I think about this policy and what it brought.
Then, around 1995 (also late 405s) Pug decided to release a "super-Mi16", 4WD, turbocharged. It was the T16, with its 220HP and 250KPH max speed, what we use to call here the "road version".
And in conclusion, no the 405 was not only for the Paris-Dakar (although it was the most popular rally-raid here, in France), it also ran the rally-raid world cup, IIRC. And, not the least thing, the Pikes Peak hillclimb race. A specific 405 was developped for that (Garett custom-made turbocharger, air-air intercooler also watercooled, 1905cc 680HP, 4 wheel drive, all steering wheels. Won two times, in 1988 and 1989, race record in 1988 with Ari Vatanen as pilot (Ari if you ever read these lines, I guess you were a bit mad when driving, but damn that was so good !).
Peugeot made a video about that, which had many prizes, I guess you could find this on P2P networks. I don't know any sites which offers download (I remember having downloaded the 65MB video through a low-speed access). Its title was "Climb Dance".
I hope it's easy to understand and I also hope I answered your request.
Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st
el Generale - 13 May 2005 10:01 GMT > I hope it's easy to understand and I also hope I answered your request. Thanks
 Signature Pozdro el Generale www.p405.prv.pl
Marc - 13 May 2005 11:01 GMT >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >Ari Vatanen as pilot (Ari if you ever read these lines, I guess you were a >bit mad when driving, but damn that was so good !). especially the part where Jan de Rooij took him over in a ...home brewed DAF truck :-) i bet Ari did not believe what was comming up on him but hey those where the day's
>Peugeot made a video about that, which had many prizes, I guess you could >find this on P2P networks. I don't know any sites which offers download (I >remember having downloaded the 65MB video through a low-speed access). Its >title was "Climb Dance". wonderfull video of the pikes peak climb!!! one could find it on some sites
>I hope it's easy to understand and I also hope I answered your request. > >Regards, >G.T >g.t6@worldonline.fr >205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st G.T - 13 May 2005 14:41 GMT Hi,
> >Ari Vatanen as pilot (Ari if you ever read these lines, I guess you were a > >bit mad when driving, but damn that was so good !). > especially the part where Jan de Rooij took him over in a ...home > brewed DAF truck :-) i bet Ari did not believe what was comming up on > him > but hey those where the day's Yeah, that's in Ari's book. Well, De Rooij was an old desert fox, really used to this kind of races. Errr, he was driving a DAF truck, true, IIRC it was one of the wonderful Turbotwin (and IIRC, one of them crashed @ extremely high speeds during a Dakar).
> wonderfull video of the pikes peak climb!!! one could find it on some > sites I've got no idea, I donwnloaded it on a site which is closed now. Pffff, 65MB with a 33.6kbps access isn't great fun :-)
Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st
Marc - 13 May 2005 23:17 GMT >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >was one of the wonderful Turbotwin (and IIRC, one of them crashed @ >extremely high speeds during a Dakar). The daf T twain had some brute 1500BHP engines in it cant remember if he crashed it but he sure did in the last two dakars
his son keeled over forward in 2004 doing 150... jumped of the whole damn cabin
>> wonderfull video of the pikes peak climb!!! one could find it on some >> sites >I've got no idea, I donwnloaded it on a site which is closed now. Pffff, >65MB with a 33.6kbps access isn't great fun :-) http://www.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/%7Esivann/pub/Course%20de%20Pikes%20Peak%20%28Ari %20Vatanen%29.mpeg
http://www.t16.ds.pwr.wroc.pl/%7Esosnek/movie/climb_dance/ClimbDance.mpg
http://www.peugeot-club.cz/galerie/video/ClimbDance.mpg
drivin of to Morvan in a few hours, make my own Dakar :-)
Grrzz
Marc
>Regards, >G.T >g.t6@worldonline.fr >205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st G.T - 14 May 2005 09:10 GMT Hi,
> The daf T twain had some brute 1500BHP engines in it cant remember if > he crashed it but he sure did in the last two dakars Yeah these were really true race trucks (the Perlinis of the Duc team weren't that bad, too).
> his son keeled over forward in 2004 doing 150... jumped of the whole > damn cabin Ouch... Not better than the Citroën support truck which exploded over a mine around 1996.
> drivin of to Morvan in a few hours, make my own Dakar :-) Eh eh... Have a happy motoring ! Enjoy it, you're sarkophages free :-)
Cheers, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st
Marc - 18 May 2005 19:28 GMT >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Ouch... Not better than the Citroën support truck which exploded over a mine >around 1996. i remember vagely the ravage,
>> drivin of to Morvan in a few hours, make my own Dakar :-) >Eh eh... Have a happy motoring ! Enjoy it, you're sarkophages free :-) yeah sure, got fined for doing well over 190, staying left, following to close and not using my clignoants! le flique was damn pissed of he couldn't keep up ( 306, 1.6) and could not revoke my licence ( not french... ) wouldn't have caught me if it wasn't for the damn barn tower trying to overtake a truck
292 f.cking euro's down the drain, and he didn't even bother having some change around for 300. sure i was speeding, but i use my direction lights, i dont stick and kepping left is much more safer @ those speeds.. :-)
>Cheers, >G.T >g.t6@worldonline.fr >205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st G.T - 20 May 2005 09:06 GMT Hi,
> >> drivin of to Morvan in a few hours, make my own Dakar :-) > >Eh eh... Have a happy motoring ! Enjoy it, you're sarkophages free :-) > yeah sure, got fined for doing well over 190, staying left, following > to close and not using my clignoants! le flique was damn pissed of he At these speeds I'd have lost my driving licence ! Another point, the use of the "flique" (or "flic", correct also) term proves you commonly come to France :-)
> couldn't keep up ( 306, 1.6) and could not revoke my licence ( not > french... ) Damn, a police 1.6 ? I thought they all were Diesels, or S16 on motorways. Some years ago he would have been stuck to your a.s, 405T16 rules !
> wouldn't have caught me if it wasn't for the damn barn tower trying to > overtake a truck Anyway with your plate and car description his mates would have caught you -if needed with the help of some HK5's- and it would have been far more expensive.
> 292 f.cking euro's down the drain, and he didn't even bother having > some change around for 300. sure i was speeding, but i use my > direction lights, i dont stick and kepping left is much more safer @ > those speeds.. :-) Sure, but that's the usual price for speeding 60KPH over ! Some years ago I used to drive between 145 and 155 with my 205D, now I have to drive at 140 max 'cause of these f#cking radars. But I could still drive being drunk (which I never do) while not speeding. What's the most dangerous ?
Regards, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st
Marc - 20 May 2005 22:30 GMT >Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Another point, the use of the "flique" (or "flic", correct also) term proves >you commonly come to France :-) mom lives in a near side town of Autun ( st leger s/ beuvray, le carage) sure i come to France about six times a year and i know damn well the speed limit is 130 on moterway's. But hey one of my favourite films is Luc Besson's Taxi
BTW Beaune town border Autun town border is doable in 26.23 minutes
:-) ( not in a 406 though...) and only late @ night > >> couldn't keep up ( 306, 1.6) and could not revoke my licence ( not >> french... ) >Damn, a police 1.6 ? I thought they all were Diesels, or S16 on motorways. >Some years ago he would have been stuck to your a.s, 405T16 rules ! i asked the accompanying police woman ( damn nice blue eyes :-) and she said it was stuck on 190km/h and her colleague was damned ticked off by it cursing why the hell they left them with a 1.6 so they had to reckon my speed by proxy
>> wouldn't have caught me if it wasn't for the damn barn tower trying to >> overtake a truck >Anyway with your plate and car description his mates would have caught >you -if needed with the help of some HK5's- and it would have been far more >expensive. Not sure if they could have read my plates they must have been standing at one of them service intersections and reading a dutch plate moving over 200 is not an easy task beside that i was about to pull over to take a leak, the exit lane was just 1000 meters or so away so i would well have been reliving myself having them looking for me ahead on the road
then again there is always the peage barrier that slows you down
what is HK5's ? helicopters?
>> 292 f.cking euro's down the drain, and he didn't even bother having >> some change around for 300. sure i was speeding, but i use my >> direction lights, i dont stick and kepping left is much more safer @ >> those speeds.. :-) >Sure, but that's the usual price for speeding 60KPH over ! well he fined me for two things i'm pretty sure of i didn't do, so if the fine for speeding 60+ is 90 euro's than fine me with that giving another 90 euros for driving not lane shifting and live with that don't lie on your servants hounour
> Some years ago I >used to drive between 145 and 155 with my 205D, now I have to drive at 140 >max 'cause of these f#cking radars. But I could still drive being drunk >(which I never do) while not speeding. What's the most dangerous ? alcohol is definitely the killer application when driving, speeding can be very very dangerous if you don't read the traffic ahead speeding drunk is the most dangerous thing i guess
another ting that i noticed was that they still use the old and very unreliable reagent alcohol tester ( tube with green colouring substance if alcohol present) they also had to wave their hands in many way's to make me follow them as they have no matrix plate that say's suivre moi ( which again i sure would do if it was for that police woman, instead of that twatt)
on the way back passing the a31 sarcophague before Metz i speeded up to 120 ( limit is 110 there) ducked behind the dashbord and waited for the flash
I bet they get puzled when they take a look at that :-)
Grrzz
Marc
>Regards, >G.T >g.t6@worldonline.fr >205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st Keith Willcocks - 13 May 2005 16:36 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > g.t6@worldonline.fr > 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st Came across this site which, apparently, has the video for download http://www.racingflix.com/getvideo.asp?v=152&p=20
 Signature Keith Willcocks (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!)
Malc - 12 May 2005 21:29 GMT > Why Peugeot made 405 Turbo 16 if they already had great 205 T16? And for > what, only for Paris-Dakar rally? Mr Peugeot had this huge box of spare bits left over, so one day he summoned his trusty engineers and said, "Hey lads," (I'm translating from the French here obviously) "Why don't we build this 405 Turbo? Look I've got a spinny round thing here and a bit of exhaust pipe. Why don't we attach them to the wife's car whilst she's out at the shops?"
And so the 405 turbo was born.
HTH
 Signature MAlc
Lee Power - 12 May 2005 21:38 GMT Hi
Which 405 T16 are we talking about then?
The 2 door works rally version or the 4 door road going saloon version that Peugeot sold in 1992 - 1993?
Malc - 12 May 2005 21:49 GMT > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that > Peugeot sold in 1992 - 1993? How should I know, I made it all up on the spur of the moment.
By the way it helps if you include a bit of the text you're replying to so as to get a bit of context.
 Signature Malc
Lee Power - 12 May 2005 22:04 GMT Heres a link that explains a little about the 205 & 405 Turbo 16 rally cars & why Peugeot built the 405 Turbo 16.
http://www.stormloader.com/groupb/peugeot.html
el Generale - 13 May 2005 08:26 GMT > Heres a link that explains a little about the 205 & 405 Turbo 16 rally cars > & why Peugeot built the 405 Turbo 16. > http://www.stormloader.com/groupb/peugeot.html There aren't much but thanks.
 Signature Pozdro el Generale www.p405.prv.pl
G.T - 13 May 2005 11:02 GMT Hi,
I forgot to mention, considering the Turbo16 rallycar, it was made to help the release of the 405 "road version". I have a little story of that, took from Ari Vatanen's book : Pug boys were not convinced about the 405T16 reliability, and said to Ari it may not be the good choice to drive it for the Dakar. As Ari was the lead pilot of what still was the PTS (Peugeot Talbot Sport, now Peugeot Sport), he went to a test drive in Niger to develop the 405T16. When getting out of the plane, he saw a 405 (road version), and a guy explained him it was the first 405 bought in the country, and was owned by one of the richest men of the Niger, which before only drove Mercedes. And Ari concluded "it convinced me on driving the 405 for the next Paris-Dakar". Later in this test drive, full revving on 6th gear he made a 53m (about 165ft) long jump in the sand, and wrote "these are diseases you never get cured".
Cheers, G.T g.t6@worldonline.fr 205 Diesel & turbo-Diesel : http://205d.fr.st
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