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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / May 2005306DT Brakes ain't too good
Hi I recently purchased my first ever car - 1994 306 D Turbo with 117miles on the clock :D Have gradually been getting it into as good a condition as I can. My current project is the brakes. Now, when I got it the discs were badly worn and warped so I replaced them and the pads which stopped the horrible shuddering I was feeling during braking! However, the brakes aren't very effective. Maybe I'm expecting too much as up till now I have been able to drive my parents' much newer cars, but I still think they're inadequate. I have the Haynes manual and I read that I could pump the brake pedal a few times to expel the vaccuum and then restart the engine and feel the pedal give - if it doesn't give then it's a faulty/worn master cylinder. Now, it gave a *bit*, but nothing like what my parents' cars do. The pedal also feels very spongy and travels a good couple of inches, but doesn't creep all the way to the floor, or anywhere close. From looking at the condition of the master cylinder itself (pretty rusty around the seals etc), I would say that it is the original one from '94. My first plan is to change the brake fluid and see if this improves anything as I believe water and air get into it over time and reduce performance, and then I will renew the master cylinder if not. Are there other places I should be looking (calipers etc??) before I spend £50 on a master cylinder to find that it makes no difference!? Thanks in advance Jamie > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Jamie I got one of the same age, and just after it passed the MOT, the master cylender did start to fail. The brakes had never been too good, and I had already replaced the disks and pads. I put in a new master cylender, and all is now much better. The price of a master cylender in the GSF catalogue is £34.50 assuming you don't have ABS. www.gsfcarparts.com It is also worth checking the state of the rear wheel cylenders. They do start to leak fluid after some time, and this contaminates the shoes. If is really bad, you will see the back of the brake plate is wet. Brian. > I got one of the same age, and just after it passed the MOT, the master > cylender did start to fail. The brakes had never been too good, and I had [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Brian. Thanks for your advice. I will have to have a look at the rear brakes, for some reason or other drum brakes have always been a weird thing to me, guess I'll have to have a look at them though with the Haynes out... I don't seem to be losing fluid from the reservoir at all. It has just suddenly come to mind that I noticed that one of my front callipers was a bit gungy when I replaced the discs - I wiped it off so that I could check at a later date if more had accumulated. Would this most likely just be a deteriorated brake hose or could it be the calliper itself? I really don't need the expense of new callipers lol. Thanks for the link to GSF, and you're correct, I don't have ABS. I don't know if this makes sense, but I feel that the brakes are even less effective now that I have the new discs on.... >Thanks for your advice. I will have to have a look at the rear brakes, >for some reason or other drum brakes have always been a weird thing to >me, guess I'll have to have a look at them though with the Haynes out... > I don't seem to be losing fluid from the reservoir at all. If you are not losing fluid, then it's more likely that the auto adjusters have stopped working. That will cause quite a lot of pedal travel to compensate for the wear in the shoes/drums. A quick check before taking the rear brakes apart(1), try jacking the rear of the car up and spinning the wheels. Pull the handbrake up until the brakes *just* start to drag, they should both be about the same, if not then at least one of the adjusters is not working. Also if there is a significant difference in the feel of the pedal between this setting and with the handbrake fully off it is almost certainly the rear brake adjustment. (1) You'll need a 32mm 6-point socket (a 12-point will keep slipping off), a large breaker bar, a torque wrench that does at least 200Nm, new hub nuts and a large collection of swear words. (Guess who's just done his rear brakes :-) >Thanks for the link to GSF, and you're correct, I don't have ABS. I >don't know if this makes sense, but I feel that the brakes are even less >effective now that I have the new discs on.... The new discs and pads may still be bedding in if you haven't driven very far yet. -Mark >>Thanks for your advice. I will have to have a look at the rear brakes, >>for some reason or other drum brakes have always been a weird thing to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The new discs and pads may still be bedding in if you haven't > driven very far yet. I second that. I recently had new discs and pads fitted on the front end of my 406 and noticed the same falling off in efficiency. After a couple of weeks they had bedded in and were fine again.  SignatureKeith Willcocks (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living!) > >>Thanks for your advice. I will have to have a look at > the rear brakes, [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > After a couple > of weeks they had bedded in and were fine again. Sounds like old brake fluid to me. I’ve just overhauled my brakes and new brake fluid makes a big difference. It needs changing at least every two years because it absorbs water from the atmosphere. Also the "bedding in" makes for strange brake action and it can take a while before the brakes are fully bedded in. I agree with you about drum brakes, there’s something odd about them and I’m glad I don’t have them anymore. Calipers in the scrappy often seem gungy to me, I presume it’s grease on newly reconditioned calipers, I don’t think it’s anything to worry about. > Sounds like old brake fluid to me. I’ve just overhauled my brakes and > new brake fluid makes a big difference. It needs changing at least > every two years because it absorbs water from the atmosphere. I will try changing that then as soon as I get the chance - it looks quite dark in colour which I believe is a sign of age. > I agree with you about drum brakes, there’s something odd about them > and I’m glad I don’t have them anymore. Woo - did you change car or did you do a conversion? How easy would rear discs be to fit on my car? They seem a stupid idea to me - I presume the must be a lot cheaper than discs as this seems the only good reason to fit them in the first place! > Calipers in the scrappy often seem gungy to me, I presume it’s grease > on newly reconditioned calipers, I don’t think it’s anything to worry > about. Ah right, I wondered if it was some collection of brake fluid and brake dust?! But I'm not losing any fluid so I guess not... >Woo - did you change car or did you do a conversion? How easy would >rear discs be to fit on my car? They seem a stupid idea to me - I >presume the must be a lot cheaper than discs as this seems the only >good >reason to fit them in the first place! It was an upgrade. I needed to change the entire rear suspension assembly on my 205 after a shoddy garage replcement of the original. The scrappy had a 1.9GTi assembly and I decided to fit it, mainly as a project and partly because it was in good condition. You’ll need an assembly off a GTi 6 or similar and rear brake inline compensators to stop the rear wheels locking up (check you don’t already have compensators). It takes an hour and a half with practice, or a day if the bolts wont play ball. I would advise caution with this job though cos it could go wrong (i.e. youre rear brakes could lock up causing you to crash). > A quick check before taking the rear brakes apart(1), try > jacking the rear of the car up and spinning the wheels. Pull the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > of the pedal between this setting and with the handbrake > fully off it is almost certainly the rear brake adjustment. Firstly, thanks to everyone for replies. I tell you what I have noticed - if I park up and pull the handbrake on with the footbrake still applied, the brake pedal moves considerably - is this what you mean? > (1) You'll need a 32mm 6-point socket (a 12-point will keep > slipping off), a large breaker bar, a torque wrench that does at > least 200Nm, new hub nuts and a large collection of swear words. > (Guess who's just done his rear brakes :-) Hehe, thanks for that - what do I do once I've taken it all apart? Get the Haynes out? >>Thanks for the link to GSF, and you're correct, I don't have ABS. I >>don't know if this makes sense, but I feel that the brakes are even less >>effective now that I have the new discs on.... > > The new discs and pads may still be bedding in if you haven't > driven very far yet. Ahh, that'll be it! >Firstly, thanks to everyone for replies. I tell you what I have noticed >- if I park up and pull the handbrake on with the footbrake still >applied, the brake pedal moves considerably - is this what you mean? Yes, that would be another symptom. Mine used to do that as well. That means that the rear brake(s) aren't touching the drums, and when you pull on the handbrake the extra space is being taken up. Next time you come to a stop, try pressing harder on the pedal, you'll probably find it sinks a bit more and then doesn't sink any further when you pull the handbrake on. If that is what is happening, I'll guess that you are probably finding it difficult to come to stop without the car jerking at the end, as you are only braking on the front wheels? >Hehe, thanks for that - what do I do once I've taken it all apart? Get >the Haynes out? You'll probably find the adjuster ratchet wheel is siezed with large amounts of brake dust and assorted gunk, which you'll need to free up. I removed the auto adjuster spring from mine, as it will almost certainly stop working again. This allows easier access to the ratchet through the wheel-nut holes so I could manually adjust it. I guess it depends on how lucky you feel. Other than that, do what it says in the haynes manual or have a look at the various threads in uk.rec.cars.maintenance which have discussed servicing drum brakes at great length. -Mark >>Firstly, thanks to everyone for replies. I tell you what I have noticed >>- if I park up and pull the handbrake on with the footbrake still [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > a look at the various threads in uk.rec.cars.maintenance which > have discussed servicing drum brakes at great length. Thanks again - much appreciated. |
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