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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / March 2006Pug 106 TUD5 diesel pump timing
Hello all I'm in the process of replacing the head on a 106 - 1st time for me, so please bear with me :) Because of the way the engine failed, I was unable to get it to TDC and fix all the sprockets so I'm having to do it after the event. This brings me to the diesel pump... Acording to the haynes manual, you put a pin through the hole in the sprocket, through the hub, into the pump body to lock it. I'm OK with this. The problem I have is that there seem to be 2 holes in the body that a pin will go into (it's difficult to see the holes with the pump in place). There is one at about 7 o'clock and another at 1 o'clock looking from the sprocket end of the pump. Am I missing something? Which one is it? Also, am I in danger of being 1 revolution of the pump out, or is it one complete pump cycle per revolution? Could this also be the case with the camshaft and crankshaft sprockets? Any help here would also be handy :) Thanks for any help Steven. > Hello all > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > being 1 revolution of the pump out, or is it one complete pump cycle > per revolution? 1 cycle per 2 revolutions so you can't be out 180deg. > Could this also be the case with the camshaft and crankshaft > sprockets? Any help here would also be handy :) > > Thanks for any help > > Steven. >> Hello all >> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >1 cycle per 2 revolutions so you can't be out 180deg. Do you mean I CAN be out 180deg? Is there anything I can do to check this? or do I have to just try it? >>> Hello all >>> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Do you mean I CAN be out 180deg? Is there anything I can do to check > this? or do I have to just try it? No, the pump only turns once for every two engine revolutions so you can't get that wrong. >>>> Hello all >>>> [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >No, the pump only turns once for every two engine revolutions so you can't >get that wrong. Ahh the penny has dropped :) Thanks for your help again :) I'm sure I'll be back with more questions before it's done! Steven so by having the pump half a revolution out, he is injecting to cylinders 2 and 3 instead of 1 and 4 and vice versa The engine turns twice to the pump turning once, but the pump does not inject at the top of the exhaust stroke, only at the top of the compression stroke. Your assumption is that the pump fires twice per revolution. The pump has a larger pulley so it only revolves once per two engine revolutions, hence he could be 180 degrees out. > >>>> Hello all > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Steven But you can't get the timing pin in 1/2 a revolution out. > so by having the pump half a revolution out, he is injecting to > cylinders 2 [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> >> Steven >so by having the pump half a revolution out, he is injecting to cylinders 2 >and 3 instead of 1 and 4 and vice versa [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >pump has a larger pulley so it only revolves once per two engine >revolutions, hence he could be 180 degrees out. Thats what I thought :) If you look later on in the thread, mrcheefull explaines which hole is the right one to use. So all should be ok!! I would have had a go at timing it up and turning her over this weekend - but it was freezing out!! Thanks for the input. Steven You cannot do any damage with the pump iming out. But you must ensure cam/crank shafts are correct or you will damage the valves and possibly pistons. > > Hello all > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > > > Steven. > Hello all > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Steven. looking at the pump pulley, there are three bolts and two holes the two holes (with one bolt between) are positioned to the right of centre, the one o'clock hole is the one to use . So looking at all it in the right place, from 12 o'clock going clockwise is pin in hole (1 o'clock), bolt (3 o'clock) , unused hole at just after 6.30 o'clock, bolt at 8 o'clock, bolt at 10.30 you need the timing pin for the flywheel, and the camwheel too mrcheerful On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:46:07 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote: >> Hello all >> [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > >mrcheerful Thats great, thanks for the info :) Any advise on Duncanwood's post? The pump needing 2 revolutions to complete 1 cycle..... How do I know if I'm at the start or the middle of the cycle? Thanks Steven > On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:46:07 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > Steven it doesn't make any difference, the pump (and cam shaft) turns one turn for every two of the crank. there is only one cam position one crank position and one pump position. put them all together with the belt and it will work. (this is because the piston has to come to the top twice to complete one 'cycle' of the engine) mrcheerful On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:17:22 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:46:07 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > >mrcheerful Thanks for the confirmation - Duncanwood just posted saying simmilar. How far away from March in CAMBS are you? you may hear the whooping if i get the thing to turn over & start :) Steven > On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:17:22 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Steven Too close, keep the noise down, please. mrcheerful On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 21:10:34 -0000, mrcheerful . <nbkm57@hotmail.com> wrote: >> On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 19:17:22 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > > mrcheerful That's far too close for comfort :-) but the valves will not correspond to the pump if it is not set correctly. > > On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:46:07 GMT, "mrcheerful ." <nbkm57@hotmail.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > mrcheerful Hi I'm trying to do the same thing but I'm not convinced that the crankshaft is in TDC. How do I check this? Following the Haynes manual, I can see a small hole and large hold to the left of it situated on the 'flange'. If I stick a 5mm drill bit into it, and gently check for holes as I turn the crankshaft, I keep finding several holes that the bit fits into... I can't seem to get a 6mm bolt into any of these holes. Without taking the crankshaft sprocket off (again!) I can see a small groove or marking in the outer edge of the sprocket. Should this be pointing up towards/aligned with the camshaft axis (Some history: The engine sounded a little tappety so I checked the valve shims and they were all out. (The head had been redone some time ago). Where the Haynes states 0.30 mm clearance was needed, I had 0.00-0.05 and where 0.15 was required I had 0.30-0.35. Having just spent around £50 on the shims, on starting I got lots of smoke and very erratic running (the engine was very keen on trying to escape out of the engine bay!) I thought that maybe the timing is off or the belt is too loose but the camshaft and pump sprockets are in alignment. The only thing left is I may have lost my crankshaft reference! Can anyone verify the TUD5 valve clearance in Haynes are correct (and opposite to TUD3)? - just in case! ;-) Thank -- Razza Thanks for that By Opposite to TUD3 I mean (from Haynes) TUD3 Ex-In-Ex-In-In-Ex-In-E TUD5 In-Ex-In-Ex-Ex-In-Ex-I Now being a bit slow, even though I thought the clearances were for the wrong valves, I didn't cross-check against the inlet and exhaust manifolds.... just my luck... my TUD5 cam configuration IS TUD5 Ex-In-Ex-In-In-Ex-In-Ex!!! Which means that Haynes is wrong (certainly for my engine). I believe that the engine is (was) a recon anyways What diameter of pin for the flywheel are you using? Do you find that there is only ever one hole in the flywheel that can accomodate this diameter of pin? I take it that I am using the right hole in the flange (?) - it's pretty tight on 6mm (not sure how large the timing hole in the flywheel itself is... Thanks for the advice on using the cam positions... will check Ok, I will re-check the timing, and also recheck the clearances from the original shims... all over again [As a side, if the timing was completely wrong, would you hear metal clattering where the pistons hit the valves? Would the valve clearance now be different to my original clearance? Would you be able to rotate the crankshaft if there was a collision? I'm just a little worried that I might have caused some damage... So many questions.. Thank -- Razza Thanks for that By Opposite to TUD3 I mean (from Haynes) TUD3 Ex-In-Ex-In-In-Ex-In-E TUD5 In-Ex-In-Ex-Ex-In-Ex-I Now being a bit slow, even though I thought the clearances were for the wrong valves, I didn't cross-check against the inlet and exhaust manifolds.... just my luck... my TUD5 cam configuration IS TUD5 Ex-In-Ex-In-In-Ex-In-Ex!!! Which means that Haynes is wrong (certainly for my engine). I believe that the engine is (was) a recon anyways What diameter of pin for the flywheel are you using? Do you find that there is only ever one hole in the flywheel that can accomodate this diameter of pin? I take it that I am using the right hole in the flange (?) - it's pretty tight on 6mm (not sure how large the timing hole in the flywheel itself is... Thanks for the advice on using the cam positions... will check Ok, I will re-check the timing, and also recheck the clearances from the original shims... all over again [As a side, if the timing was completely wrong, would you hear metal clattering where the pistons hit the valves? Would the valve clearance now be different to my original clearance? Would you be able to rotate the crankshaft if there was a collision? I'm just a little worried that I might have caused some damage... So many questions.. Thank -- Razza |
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