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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / March 2006Identify the Noise - win.. nothing.
Heres a bit of fun amidst my Sunday afternoon anguish at possibly not having a car to commute to work in next week. Take a listen to this clip and see if you can tell me whats wrong with my car (2.0 HDI Engine - Pug 306 '99) This morning, whilst cold and idle, it developed a rattling/tapping sound. It is clearly there throughout the clip but most prominant just after I lift off after revving. http://homepages.which.net/~derek.hawley/carnoise.wav (yes I know, shame I couldn't MP3 it, encoders seem to dislike short wav files) Help appreciated. Cheers, Tom. Timing a notch out > Heres a bit of fun amidst my Sunday afternoon anguish at possibly not > having a car to commute to work in next week. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cheers, > Tom. > Timing a notch out Oh. Does this mean piston/valve damage?.. What can cause this to shift? Worn cambelt? I was coming up to replacing it within the next 5-6k miles. If no damage, would I be right in thinking that this would be a good course of action to rectify the problem as a whole? > > Timing a notch out > > Oh. Does this mean piston/valve damage? If that was the problem, it wouldn't.  SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. >>> Timing a notch out >> Oh. Does this mean piston/valve damage? > > If that was the problem, it wouldn't. If as in "he's wrong" or if as in "its ridiculous to assume thats the problem based on a 20 second audio clip"? I'm not assuming anything, merely trying to work out what the problem is. Still, comforting to know that i'm not (yet) looking at an engine rebuild, so thanks. > >>> Timing a notch out > >> Oh. Does this mean piston/valve damage? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Still, comforting to know that i'm not (yet) looking at an engine > rebuild, so thanks. No, as in if the timing is a tooth out, you'll not have the pistons hitting the valves. For that to occur, we're talking 50+ degrees out, not a handful which a notch out would be. What he is referring to, I think, is the pump timing being out. The pump is run off the belt/chain and you can think of it along the lines of ye olden distributor on petrol engines but with diesel instead of a spark. It has to be set to inject the diesel at exactly the right time. If it's a bit out you get a knocking sound. Likewise in a petrol car, if the ignition timing is out, you can get pinking. If it is out, it means the timing belt has stretched or slipped (unless it had been doing it since the last belt change) - neither of which is a good thing. SignatureConor, Same sh.t, different day. > What he is referring to, I think, is the pump timing being out. The > pump is run off the belt/chain and you can think of it along the lines > of ye olden distributor on petrol engines but with diesel instead of a > spark. It has to be set to inject the diesel at exactly the right time. > If it's a bit out you get a knocking sound. Likewise in a petrol car, > if the ignition timing is out, you can get pinking. And for anyone googling for the exact definition of pinking, please ignore any of Peter Macmillan's posts. Signature"Doctor Fox was on the panel and I asked him why we didn't even get nominated, and he said 'because you're not very good'. <pause> At least I don't practise medicine without a license." - Ricky Gervais on the Sony Radio Awards >> >>> Timing a notch out >> >> Oh. Does this mean piston/valve damage? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >hitting the valves. For that to occur, we're talking 50+ degrees out, >not a handful which a notch out would be. >What he is referring to, I think, is the pump timing being out. The >pump is run off the belt/chain and you can think of it along the lines >of ye olden distributor on petrol engines but with diesel instead of a >spark. It has to be set to inject the diesel at exactly the right time. >If it's a bit out you get a knocking sound. Likewise in a petrol car, >if the ignition timing is out, you can get pinking. it is a common rail, look up the essentials on that and correct your answer.... >If it is out, it means the timing belt has stretched or slipped (unless >it had been doing it since the last belt change) - neither of which is >a good thing. > Heres a bit of fun amidst my Sunday afternoon anguish at possibly not > having a car to commute to work in next week. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Cheers, > Tom. To the untrained ear it sounds like every other diesel on the road :-) SignatureRemove SOMETHINGFISHY to email www.ukwebhost.com > To the untrained ear it sounds like every other diesel on the road :-) True, if I hadn't known what the car normally sounds like i'd probably assume it was normal :)... but like I suspect many others, I am very sensitive to any change in the sound of the engine. I drive a lot more care-free when music is drowning it out, quite frankly. > Heres a bit of fun amidst my Sunday afternoon anguish at possibly not > having a car to commute to work in next week. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Help appreciated. It's hard to say. It's more like something just affecting just the one cylinder. If it had been worse when you revved it, I would of said a leaking exhaust manifold gasket, but I'd hazard a guess at something wrong with either a tappet or injector (the tapping seems to match the engine speed quite closely). Can you tell what area the tapping is coming from? > It's hard to say. > It's more like something just affecting just the one cylinder. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Can you tell what area the tapping is coming from? Its really hard to tell. If I had to describe it i'd say its internal. Its a lot more noticable from inside the car or aside the car when the bonnet's closed. The noise of the vibration with the bonnet open drowns it out. Seems to be coming from the head. >> Heres a bit of fun amidst my Sunday afternoon anguish at possibly not >> having a car to commute to work in next week. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com *** >*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com *** As it's an HDI then the pump timing can not be out. The pump basically just pressurises the diesel into the coomon rail and then to the injectors, which are electrically opened when required. Which is why when the belt is changed you don't need to time the pump. What it sounds like to me, and as you say it is difficult on a short WAV file, is the crank pulley starting to rattle. A friend of mine had the same thing and he was convinced it was an injector, but when I heard it, especially first thing in the morning with the A/C on, I could hear it was coming low down from the pulley area. Shine a light down there and I could see metal filings on the undertray and wing trim. It was by this time pretty noisy. Anyway, have a look at your pulley. It is quite a common fault on HDI's. > What it sounds like to me, and as you say it is difficult on a short > WAV file, is the crank pulley starting to rattle. A friend of mine had [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Anyway, have a look at your pulley. It is quite a common fault on > HDI's. Hmm. Sounds pretty catastrophic. I'm nowhere near experienced enough to even get down to the pulley let alone diagnose whether its the cause of the problem, but reading around the subject this is the most fitting so far. What causes this wear on the pulley? >> What it sounds like to me, and as you say it is difficult on a short >> WAV file, is the crank pulley starting to rattle. A friend of mine had [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >the problem, but reading around the subject this is the most fitting so >far. What causes this wear on the pulley? You don't have to "get down to the pulley". Just look down from above with a good light and see if there are any meatl filings yet. There is a rubber bonding in the pulley and it becomes unbonded and the metal parts rub together and make the rattling noise and the filings. They cost around £120 (Citroen part) or £160 (Peugeot part). I have heard you can get a solid pulley to fit from Peugeot for around £50, but I have never followed this up. Takes no more than an hour to fit. > This morning, whilst cold and idle, it developed a rattling/tapping sound. > It is clearly there throughout the clip but most prominant just after I > lift off after revving. Sound quality is good. I have similar engine in a Citroen Xantia. Must admit that's what it sounds like on cold and frosty mornings. Any difference when hot? Does it run ok? DaveK. >> This morning, whilst cold and idle, it developed a rattling/tapping sound. >> It is clearly there throughout the clip but most prominant just after I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that's what it sounds like on cold and frosty mornings. > Any difference when hot? Does it run ok? On the very cold mornings it has extremely loud diesel rattle but thats perfectly normal and it generally quietens down once the temperature approaches normal. I didn't actually run the engine for long enough today to reach normal running temperature, so not sure, but it felt, to drive, absolutely normal. >> This morning, whilst cold and idle, it developed a rattling/tapping >> sound. It is clearly there throughout the clip but most prominant just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Any difference when hot? Does it run ok? > DaveK. Also sounds exactly like my Xantia until warmed up as well, and it's just had a service including cam belt change. > ...(2.0 HDI Engine - Pug 306 '99) This morning, whilst cold and > idle, it developed a rattling/tapping sound....most prominant just > after I lift off after revving... > http://homepages.which.net/~derek.hawley/carnoise.wav If the Pug 306 '99 is equipped with a knock sensor, then I would not feel easy until I have shown to my satisfaction that the tapping noise is not of rapid engine knocking. The 7 year old car could have enough accumulated carbon deposits to cause this detonation. Before last weekend, the knock sensor was able to produce adequate retardation of the normal ignition advance to eliminate the detonation. While there are other causes of the abrupt appearance of the noise and of the close correlation between frequency/loudness and throttle pressure, a faulty knock sensor can be easily tested and eliminated. SignatureLin Chung [Replace "the Water Margin" with "ntlworld" for e-mail]. Ignore my last post! Just read the update! SignatureLin Chung [Replace "the Water Margin" with "ntlworld" for e-mail]. |
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