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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / March 2007Just been told my car isn't worth repairing, only bought it 2 weeks ago! 95 405 TD Estate
Well I bought a 405 TD Estate Executive for £700 a couple of weeks ago, I missed a few important things when i test drove it... The clutch judders(Judders in first when warmed up), I took it to a garage and they said the engine is "swimming with oil & fuel leaks" and the clutch is probably getting contaminated, they said its not worth doing as the clutch alone would be £400 and who knows what else could be lurking under the bonnet. The clutch does seem better than when I bought it though. There are a few spots of oil on the ground when I park it overnight. Peering under the car it doesnt look any worse that my last car which leaked for years and never had any other problems (I know you can't really tell by looking) The front part of the exhaust has a hole in it, I guess this is pretty easy to replace. Just sounds odd as you can hear the turbo through it at the moment. The steering is stiff, I was told this is probably the ball joints and the track rod ends would need to come off/be replaced. The parts for this are quite cheap but is it a long job? The car drives well, and is clean, starts within a few turns. It has about 150,000 miles on it but pulls very well. There are a few rattles but nothing horrible... I've only had german cars in the past and these do seem to be more durable, (except a metro which fell apart after 6 months!), i'm wandering if I should try and sell it and buy another 405, or sell it and get a VW Passat, or try to repair it. Tricky knowing what to do, any ideas? i know what i would do and that would be repaire it. if you got the time,£400 for a clutch what is it gold plated? chris addlestone surrey You say the clutch is already better than it was. Perhaps it was standing for some time before you got it. Just drive it for a bit and see. Do you know if basic servicing has been done? Cam belt should by now have been changed for the second time. Has it got a reasonably long MOT? Steering a bit stiff, but it has power steering, so is this working properly? Check the fluid level and top up. It is possible that some of the leaks are power steering fluid. The ball joints are cheap enough, and not so difficult to replace, and the track rod ends are very easily done. £400 for just a clutch sounds quite a lot, worth asking around. But if it's safe to drive, do so and see how it goes. Cool, I've been driving it and it goes really well, bit of smoke at full throttle but I don't really care about that! £400 does seem a lot, I honestly think the guy in the garage doesnt like me.. I saw another car on ebay almost exactly the same and the description said "recently fitted new clutch at a cost of £220". Its not something I want to do myself though as I dont have a garage or tools, it's a bit beyond me. I could have a go at the ball joints/ track rod ends though. I took out about 2 pints of the steering fluid and put a can of seal renewer stuff in and topped up with fresh fluid. I dont think its made much difference but too soon to tell really. I'm going to have a really good look under it as I havent had a chance to do this yet, also get it up on stands and move the steering about to see if anything is stiff. The car has MOT until end Aug and has had a few bits and bobs done, new brake discs, brake lines, glow plugs, receipt for clutch only 15,000 miles ago. The thing thats a bit worrying is it looks like a few things have never been oiled or greased, like the gear linkages and door hinges. Drove it today to work and back and down to the shops at lunch, probably only about 12 miles total but bit of stop start stuff and it hardly shook at all. I think like you say I should drive it for a bit and see. thanks for the replies. If it did have a new clutch fitted 15k miles back, then unless it was done very badly, there is no way you need another one. Peugeot clutches last 100k at least normally, unless the last owner used the clutch pedal as a foot rest, which would wreck the release bearing. (I have known this happen), > If it did have a new clutch fitted 15k miles back, then unless it was done > very badly, there is no way you need another one. Peugeot clutches last 100k > at least normally, unless the last owner used the clutch pedal as a foot > rest, which would wreck the release bearing. > (I have known this happen), Its quite possible that it was just done badly, cant realy tell without taking it apart. I'm concerned that oil is leaking onto the clutch though. My plan of action is to drain a bit of oil out of the sump, Its full right to the high mark at the moment and the manual tells me it's 1.5 litres between the high and low mark. I know that having too much oil in a car can put extra strain on the seals. I'm also going to stick some stop leak additive in to see if this helps, I believe this swells the seals? Worth a shot. Then I'll drive it for a couple of weeks and see what happens. I also have been reading that thicker oil should be used in these engines like 15w40 or 20w40, so thats another thing I could try. On 16 Mar, 18:49, duncan.hask...@googlemail.com wrote: > > If it did have a new clutch fitted 15k miles back, then unless it was done > > very badly, there is no way you need another one. Peugeot clutches last 100k [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > used in these engines like 15w40 or 20w40, so thats another thing I > could try. The other thing is that the clucth pedal and possibly cable is a bit stiff so I'm going to try and squirt some oil up the cable and onto the lever. > The other thing is that the clucth pedal and possibly cable is a bit > stiff so I'm going to try and squirt some oil up the cable and onto > the lever. Before you do that check the cable isn't plastic running in a plastic outer or going through a plastic bellows somewhere. Spray the wrong sort of lubricant on that and you'll make the problem worse. For plastic you have to use something reasonably inert like a Silicone based spray, not one that's petrochemical based e.g. everybody's favourite... WD40! And that's NOT a lubricant at all, after a few weeks it dries to something sticky and stiffer than whatever gunk was previously in whatever you were trying to free up. You can use a Silicone based spray on either plastic or metal it just doesn't give the same sort of protection to the metal that a metal specific one would do but it works fine as a short term lubricant. Chris On 17 Mar, 00:05, "Chris Dugan" <chrisdotdu...@bloodyobvious.co.uk> wrote: > > The other thing is that the clucth pedal and possibly cable is a bit > > stiff so I'm going to try and squirt some oil up the cable and onto [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Chris Ok, just in time, I was going to spray WD40 on! I'm sure its a plastic outer so I'll look for some silicon. > On 17 Mar, 00:05, "Chris Dugan" <chrisdotdu...@bloodyobvious.co.uk> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Ok, just in time, I was going to spray WD40 on! I'm sure its a > plastic outer so I'll look for some silicon. Certainly all the Peugeot clutch cables I have come across are nylon lined. It is also very difficult to do much to improve a worn cable. Worth trying to get some oil on the pedal pivots though. If you have oil in the clutch, it can only come through the crankshaft oil seal, unless it is gearbox oil which is leaking through the mainshaft seal, but this is less likely. You talk of thicker oil, do you know what is in there at the moment? Certainly the newer synthetic oils do tend to leak out of older engines, and provided you abide by the 6k oil change limit, the normal diesel spec oil is fine. I always go for the 15 - 40, but on a worn engine, 20 - 40/50 might be better. Out 306 TD which has over 150k now, is fine on 15 - 40. >> On 17 Mar, 00:05, "Chris Dugan" <chrisdotdu...@bloodyobvious.co.uk> >> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > better. > Out 306 TD which has over 150k now, is fine on 15 - 40. Just to throw my 4p's worth in: I had 2 405's over a period of about 20years and can confirm the problems of stiff clutches/clutch cables with plastic outer casings, and the pivot bearings in the clutch housing needing lubrication! I was also told by a garage that it was not uncommon for the clutch cable outer to come through the bulkhead through brute force. The later cables are supposed to be sealed for life. I did lubricate the bearings and as a last resort sprayed (a little) WD40 through the release arm aperture which helped. I was told it was also quite common for the clutches to get a bit stiff and rusty over time. And just to confirm longevity of clutches, I sold my last 405 18 months ago and it had 91K on the clock, still with original clutch mostly driven on local roads, but of course it more how its driven than where! > > <duncan.hask...@googlemail.com> wrote in message > >news:1174128308.862202.302930@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > ago and it had 91K on the clock, still with original clutch mostly > driven on local roads, but of course it more how its driven than where! Interesting about the release bearings, I'm not going to start spraying oil anywhere near the clutch, not yet anyway! I put the car on stands and had a good look. Suprisingly there are a couple of inspection holes in the bell housing, not that I know what to inspect! There was a fair bit of oil over everything so I sprayed some degreaser on and cleaned it off a bit, hopefuly this will allow me to see where the oil is coming from. There was a drop of clean golden oil hanging from where I guess the clutch meets the gearbox, so I think perhaps this has come from the gearbox. I put some oil on the gear linkages and a bit on the lever that's moved by the clutch cable. The cable itself appears to have a rubber bung over the end so i can't really lubricate it. I took out some oil (engine now on min mark) to see if this helps the strain on the engine seals. Of course if its gear oil this won't help. I went on a fairly long drive today and the judder is still there, worse when hot I think, but I think I might be able to live with it if I adjust my technique, ie if I rev the engine a bit it doesn't seem to judder as much. One of the bottom ball joints has a hole in the rubber boot so I suspect this needs changing, I think I'll give this a go as I think it's a case of unscrewing it (with special tool) and screwing a new one in. I don't know how much else needs taking off first but I'll have a go. Also the exhaust front pipe has a small hole in it, its very easy to get at so I think I'll just use some exhaust tape as a temporary fix and see if I can hear any other leaks. >>> <duncan.hask...@googlemail.com> wrote in message >>> news:1174128308.862202.302930@l75g2000hse.googlegroups.com... [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > to inspect! > There was a fair bit of oil over everything Not a good sign! so I sprayed some > degreaser on and cleaned it off a bit, hopefuly this will allow me to > see where the oil is coming from. There was a drop of clean golden > oil hanging from where I guess the clutch meets the gearbox, so I > think perhaps this has come from the gearbox. If, as I think you said earlier, its had a new clutch fitted, the most likely cause is this is engine oil not gearbox and its usually due to the fitter not being careful when re-inserting the gearbox shaft into the back of the flywheel (clutch centering tool required). The sharp edges of the splines can easily damage the rear oil seal on the rear of the engine. I know I have been there and done it! The gearbox oil usually smells a lot different to the engine oil so you should be able to find which it is! > I put some oil on the gear linkages and a bit on the lever that's > moved by the clutch cable. The cable itself appears to have a rubber > bung over the end so i can't really lubricate it. I took out some > oil (engine now on min mark) to see if this helps the strain on the > engine seals. Some engine do not like to be overfilled and may damage seals, I never over fill with oil. That's a lie, I once blew an engine in Belgium, kept it topped up every 15 miles and stuck a screw in the oil filler tube to stop it blowing out! I got back to Calais OK but I think I only had 2 cylinders running when I arrived! Of course if its gear oil this won't help. > I went on a fairly long drive today and the judder is still there, > worse when hot I think, but I think I might be able to live with it if > I adjust my technique, ie if I rev the engine a bit it doesn't seem to > judder as much. If you have that amount of oil on the clutch and the plates are contaminated then it would "bite" (2 flat surfaces and liquid - try separating 2 pieces of greenhouse glass with water in between the panes). > One of the bottom ball joints has a hole in the rubber boot so I > suspect this needs changing, I think I'll give this a go as I think > it's a case of unscrewing it (with special tool) and screwing a new > one in. I don't know how much else needs taking off first but I'll > have a go. If this is the bottom pivot, then normally this is quite a job, you need spring compressors to release the pressure from the suspension leg. Also the exhaust front pipe has a small hole in it, its > very easy to get at so I think I'll just use some exhaust tape as a > temporary fix and see if I can hear any other leaks. Good Luck > > One of the bottom ball joints has a hole in the rubber boot so I > > suspect this needs changing, I think I'll give this a go as I think [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If this is the bottom pivot, then normally this is quite a job, you > need spring compressors to release the pressure from the suspension leg. I have replaced the bottom pivot on a 405, and did not need any sort of spring compressor. True the ball joint is screwed in, but once you have got it off the lower arm, you can unscrew the balljoint with a hammer and drift or blunt chisel. Just work round all the points in turn. Spring compressor to do bottom ball joint on a 405? no where near the spring,some times they are very hard to get off, rust take hold, had to do mine in a vice with a very large of grips and the tool was no good as it was on there well and truely.one side was very easy todo took 40 to do one side and 2hrs todo other side,i think it is just luck. Re source of oil leak. It might be gearbox oil. Some 405s had a very strange filling system with three plugs. The bottom was a drain, the top was a filler, and the middle was for level. You filled through the top and then opened the middle one to drain down to the right level. If someone didn't know this the box got too full and blew the seal and the clutch got all slippy.. I know because it happened after a service and halfway to Cornwall. (Never have a car service before an important trip!). Cost a new clutch. Cheers, >Re source of oil leak. >It might be gearbox oil. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Cost a new clutch. >Cheers, I think someone mistook the vent plug for a filler in your case. The filler is on the end of the case toward the N/S wheel. It's a combined filler and level. You only use the vent if you have difficulty using the end one, but you should take the end plug out and stop when oil comes out of it (around 2 litres). |
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