113,000 mile Pug 306, 1.4l noisy valve lifters

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David Hearn - 26 May 2007 09:34 GMT

Our 1998 (S reg) Peugeot 306 1.4l petrol has a bit of a history for
making tapping/knocking noises from the top part of the engine. I've
always assumed it to be the tappets/hydraulic valve lifters. It seems
worse at different times of the year (can't remember if worse in Winter
or Summer) and usually is most noticeable at slow speeds in low gears,
eg. when reversing off the drive.

It recently passed 113,000 miles and I did another oil + filter change
(Castrol GTX, 10w40) and noticed it was a bit noisy again after changes.
A couple of days later, whilst in Halfords, I saw some magic liquid
(yes, I know....) which claimed to improve valve lifter noise. Simply
pour into oil filler hole and it helps clean up the problems which
causes noisy valve lifters. Claims to be able to be kept in the engine
permanently (rather than X days and then do oil change). Thought I
would give it a go, not sure if it would make any difference but thought
it was unlikely to be a problem and at £5, wasn't really a problem if it
didn't make it any better.

Needless to say since doing this the engine has been far far worse at
tappet noise. I can just about notice it driving along at 30mph with
the windows open. Reversing as before the noise is very very noticeable.

A couple of questions. What may be the reason for this noise happening
in the first place? What might this 'snake oil' have done to make it
worse noise (eg. made more or less viscous, thus losing oil between
tappets, thus making a tapping noise).

Finally, would I be better off with a different grade of oil? Would
something like 15W40 be better? I've seen that advertised for 'older
engines'.

Thanks

David

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Conor - 26 May 2007 11:11 GMT

> A couple of days later, whilst in Halfords, I saw some magic liquid
> (yes, I know....) which claimed to improve valve lifter noise. Simply
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> something like 15W40 be better? I've seen that advertised for 'older
> engines'.

ROFL...another one.

If you'd have come here, you'd have been told the best thing to do was
to add a bit of automatic transmission fluid, run for a while then do
an oil change.

Anyhow..

The noise can be caused by low oil pressure, blocked oil galleries,
worn lifters.

The snake oil may have blocked the galleries or it might have cleaned
up the varnish on the inside of lifters and if they were shagged, the
coating of dirt on the insides stopping them from rattling is no longer
there.

Thicker oil makes them rattle more. That's why it was louder in winter
because the oil was cooler, therefore thicker.

There's only one fix and that's to get some engine flush to flush out
the shite you've added, do an oil change and also change the lifters
for some new ones.

Signature

Conor

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........

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Nigel - 26 May 2007 12:31 GMT

>> A couple of days later, whilst in Halfords, I saw some magic liquid
>> (yes, I know....) which claimed to improve valve lifter noise. Simply
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>the shite you've added, do an oil change and also change the lifters
>for some new ones.

However the 1.4 engine doesn't have valve lifters as such. Not
hydraulic ones anyway. They are normal adjustable type, and have
probably never been done. So I would suggest doing that first.
Inlet 20mm Exhaust 40mm
or
Inlet 8 thou Exhaust 16 thou

Done on a cold engine.

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David Hearn - 26 May 2007 12:32 GMT

>> A couple of days later, whilst in Halfords, I saw some magic liquid
>> (yes, I know....) which claimed to improve valve lifter noise. Simply
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> Thicker oil makes them rattle more. That's why it was louder in winter
> because the oil was cooler, therefore thicker.

Okay, so thinner oil would help make things a bit quieter. However,
thinner oil is more likely to leak in an older engine (which already
leaks a bit). The head gasket area has been leaking a little for years
- more 'wet on front of engine' than 'puddle under car' type.

> There's only one fix and that's to get some engine flush to flush out
> the shite you've added, do an oil change and also change the lifters
> for some new ones.

Hmm....

"1. The rocker arm assembly is secured to the top of the cylinder head
by the cylinder head bolts. Although in theory it is possible to undo
the head bolts and remove the rocker arm assembly without removing the
head, in practice, this is not recommended. Once the bolts have been
removed, the head gasket will be disturbed, and the gasket will almost
certainly leak or blow after refitting. For this reason, removal of the
rocket arm assembly cannot be donw without removing the cylinder head
and renewing the head gasket.

2. The camshaft is slid out of the right hand end of the cylinder head,
and it therefore cannot be removed without first removing the cylinder
head, due to lack of clearance."

Another job to get done relating to the head gasket/timing belt which
isn't going to happen for a while! I'm not sure if I have the courage
to do a headgasket myself, but the local garage has suggested £500-£600
for the work - and on this car it's probably 1/3 of it's value. DIY'ing
over 5 days 'holiday' seems a possibility, but not done anything like
this before.

I take it that using engine flush would require a new filter too?

What spec oil would you recommend? Stick with the 10W-40? Castrol say:

Castrol's best oil for your vehicle EDGE 0W-30
Alternative recommendation MAGNATEC 10W-40 A3/B3

Alternative recommendations, Engine, <2000: -30°C to 25°C, 5W-30; -30°C
to 40°C, 5W-40; -20°C to 25°C, 10W-30; -20°C to 40°C, 10W-40; -20°C to
50°C, 10W-50; -15°C to 40°C, 15W-50; -5°C to 50°C, 20W-50

So would going with something like 10W-30 be suitable in the UK? Would
this be thin enough to help improve the tapping but would it be too thin?

Thanks

David

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Conor - 26 May 2007 14:22 GMT

> Hmm....
>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> What spec oil would you recommend? Stick with the 10W-40?

Might as well, it's beyond a different grade in oil making a difference
for the tappets and 0W 30 will just fall out of the gaskets and seals.

> Castrol say:
>
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> So would going with something like 10W-30 be suitable in the UK? Would
> this be thin enough to help improve the tapping but would it be too thin?

TBH, I doubt that anything is going to make sufficient difference save
reconditioning the top end and/or possibly the full motor.

Depends on what your level of skill and confidence is as to whether
you're up to a head job and I can't say either way other than to say
there's nothing frightening as long as you take your time, don't try
shortcutting and have decent tools.

Signature

Conor

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright
until you hear them speak.........

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Chrs - 26 May 2007 14:39 GMT

Well david take note of what Conor has said as this does work .i did
this on my 405 diesel and i dont have any noise from the top end
now.also try that Magetec oil, they say that is very good for old
engines and high mileage engines.

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Tim.. - 27 May 2007 19:55 GMT

> Our 1998 (S reg) Peugeot 306 1.4l petrol has a bit of a history for making
> tapping/knocking noises from the top part of the engine. I've always
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> something like 15W40 be better? I've seen that advertised for 'older
> engines'.

Firstly the 1.4 has adjustable tappets, so your first port of call should be
to have them checked and probably adjusted- it may well be only one or two
causing the noise. Of course the buckets and / or cam lobes may be worn too,
this should be spottable by a trained mechanic... If this is the case,
replacement will be necessary.

Anyhow, Slick 50 et al, is a waste of time. Drop out your current oil, fill
with fresh and about 0.5 litre of ATF. Run the car for 100 miles or so,
avoiding high rpms / load and then change the oil and filter again,
refilling with what the handbook suggests. I would imagine that it could
well recommend 15w-40 as this engine is about as old as the hills, and isnt
designed for the very modern thinner stuff....

Tim..

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