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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / February 2008407 v 406
Our 406SV is about ten years old and we are looking at 407s or Mercs for a replacement. There have not been many posts about 407s - which may mean that noone is buying them but, hopefully, means that they have been fairly problem-free (if Peugeot monitor this group they will be soldering the air bag leads under the seats on the assembly line). What can group members tell me about the 407? Is it better than the 406? How? And what about the diesel version - plenty of posts about the 406 HDI - no particular drama. There are probably many group members in a similar position to me - lets kick some info around about 406 replacements. I will be test- driving a 407 HDI and a Merc Kompressor on Monday. Stay tuned. And i know what car you will be buying.Merc? > Our 406SV is about ten years old and we are looking at 407s or Mercs > for a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > lets kick some info around about 406 replacements. I will be test- > driving a 407 HDI and a Merc Kompressor on Monday. Stay tuned. I don't have direct personal experience, but my boss has had both, and had far fewer problems with the 406. All the problems he has had with the 407 have been niggling electrical type problems which the dealers can't diagnose. I do know that the 407 is a pretty nice thing to drive, and that the 136Bhp Hdi lump is quite sweet, although not as economical as one might expect. The boot opening on the estate is both quite clever and rather stupid - the two-way opening is quite clever, but the aperture you have when fully open through which to insert camping gear/dogs/washing machines is really quite small. On balance he preferred the 406. I have no experience of the modern mercs, so can't help there :-) > > Our 406SV is about ten years old and we are looking at 407s or Mercs > > for a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > I have no experience of the modern mercs, so can't help there :-) Interesting. The problems with the 407 sound a bit like I experienced with a new Ford - they finally replaced a thing called the 'body control module' and it has been OK. Our 406 occasionally acts up - immobiliser. But it has only happened about three times in 9 years (that is three times too many!). This is one reason why all the vehicles I am looking at on Monday are demos - 3k to 25k kms up. Hopefully they have got any bugs out of them. >> > Our 406SV is about ten years old and we are looking at 407s or Mercs >> > for a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > vehicles I am looking at on Monday are demos - 3k to 25k kms up. > Hopefully they have got any bugs out of them. I wrote about an electrical problem with my 407 around 7 Jan vs. After driving for approx 16 miles the o/s rear window would wind down on its own and the n/s rear window would do the reverse, this would last for a few minutes then stop. The Dealer had the car in for three weeks and in many consultations with Peugeot eventually changed the BSI (Building or Body (?) Service Interface) Unit which appaently all the electirc controls pass through, at Peugeot's suggestion.. Since then all has been ok, so far. One compliment to the Dealer, although a warranty job and he wouldn't have been paid that much by Peugeot my car came back with a full valet service and painted tyre walls. I have also had to have a Xenon bulb changed (would have cos £100 plus labour) and three attempts to get an oil leak repaired. on the auto gearbox. Otherwise it is a lovely car to drive but doesn't have the build quality of a German built vehicle. Vehicle, 407 Executive 2.2 litre auto, petrol model. > Peugeot eventually changed the BSI (Building or Body (?) Service Interface) > Unit which appaently all the electirc controls pass through, at Peugeot's > suggestion.. Since then all has been ok, so far. Let's clear it once for all : BSI stands for "Boîtier de servitude intelligent", and I have no idea about how it has been translated. That's the main node of the mux system, from where all the buses start and where interactions between them (if needed) are done. Every element should be able to work even if the BSI has burnt (limp mode, of course), but changing this element cured some nightmare stories related here. Regards, -- G.T >> Peugeot eventually changed the BSI (Building or Body (?) Service > Interface) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > G.T >Thanks for the explanation G,T Personally it is the first time I have come across the name (Intelligent service box I guess). It was the dealer who used the terms I wrote above. The window could still be wound up, well maybe after a delay, so whatever the problem it wasn't fatal Also I don' understand why window switches need to be multiplexed, it seems to add an unnecessary complication but then I am no electronics expert. Hi, > The window could still be wound up, well maybe after a delay, so whatever > the problem it wasn't fatal This time, for you it wasn't fatal. Sometimes it really was nightmares (esp. on 307s). > Also I don' understand why window switches need to be multiplexed, it seems > to add an unnecessary complication but then I am no electronics expert. OK, I'll give my point here. Multiplexing (muxing in electronics slang) was bought into automotive industry to reach two goals : one was the amount of wiring needed for the car (a 405-class had something like 6km - 4 miles), the other being the invasion of electronis (most of them wanted by the customer himself, commonly called "comfort features") and for a better interaction between the car elements (engine ECU & peripherals for example) - think "pollution reduction". So here we are : comfort and cost reduction. The muxing is (I should write "was" as we could consider it like oldie now, first muxed cars at PSA's being the XM and the 605 - on a lighter integration though) extactly like the relays-to-automates revolution in industrial installations : replacing the horrible number of relays by only one automate (Industrial Programmable Automates ?) and a couple of relays. So we encountered the same nightmare stories due to some hardware and / or software design issues, exactly the same way. Happily, most of issues were only software-related at PSA (I except the first 307s and Picasso's where the BSI itself was subject to some water getting inside). Errr, I hope it remains easy to understand. Regards, -- G.T Its in plain english, > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > -- > G.T This 'fly by wire' multiplexing thing is taking over the world and we have a long way to go. Cars have, for years, been using it. Homes use it. Boeing 747s use it. In fact my impression is that it started in aircraft. The idea that you can send instructions to odd bits of hardware around the vehicle/premises is great. But if the receiving hardware has a glitch you get things like windows opening and closing for no apparent reason etc. Presumably the receiving hardware becomes more sophisticated over time so that it can identify and correct or ignore nonsense instructions. But it is frightening that, for instance, my first two peugeots - a 504 and a 505 were totally devoid of all this stuff and engine management systems. I understood every detail of the vehicle's operation. No more. Sad!!! I must admit that the 406 I have owned for the last nine year and the 407 I test-drove today are singularly pleasant - user-friendly - comfortable vehicles. And the 406 has only failed to operate about three times in nine years (and came good without any expert intervention). But, having, for most of my driving life, had a fairly complete understanding of what my vehicles were doing (and the ability, in most cases, to diagnose and fix any failures), the current world where I am, instead, driving a sealed 'black box' is, when I think about it, terrifying. > > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] > world where I am, instead, driving a sealed 'black box' is, when I > think about it, terrifying. Further to this, I acquired a silver HDI 407 today and am increasingly impressed as I learn of the improvements over the 406. For instance I just tried out the backing warning - it starts beeping when you are about half a metre from something and doubles the frequency of beeps when you get to about 300 mm (a foot). Allegedly it warns you not only of flat tyres but even underinflated ones! Good things from the 406 - like the windscreen wiper control - are retained. But the wipers themselves are incredible - each one covers more of the screen that both did in the 406. And the general driving situation makes it easy to forget that you are not still driving the 406. Of course it is early days, but this vehicle has 24k km up so any bugs should have been dealt with. And it came with two years warranty. (it will probably take me that long to learn all the new features!) > Our 406SV is about ten years old and we are looking at 407s or Mercs > for a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > lets kick some info around about 406 replacements. I will be test- > driving a 407 HDI and a Merc Kompressor on Monday. Stay tuned. I've had a 407 SE 110 HDI for over 2 and a half years and it's probably the best car I've ever had. It's economical to run (I really can get 55mpg!), reliable and comfortable. Everyone who has been in it has been impressed with the quality and the drive. I haven't had any problems, electrical or otherwise. Maybe I bought a rogue "monday" car! Bob No you have just got a good 407, also i think its how people look after there cars helps, service when they should be and not left to long, like many people out there!! > Our 406SV is about ten years old and we are looking at 407s or Mercs > for a replacement. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > lets kick some info around about 406 replacements. I will be test- > driving a 407 HDI and a Merc Kompressor on Monday. Stay tuned. We are the original Peugeot Family due to a family friend who runs a Peugeot Dealership. I've had 2 x 405's 2 x 406's and a 407 My current cars are 2004 406 HDI 90 S estate (intended as a hack and for son to learn to drive in) and a 2006 407 2.7hdi GT Coupe, my wife has a 2005 307cc. I'll compare the 406 estate with my brother's 407 136 hdi sw The 406 is better for load carrying (the word is get a 307sw if you want load space) but the 407 has better 'toys' and ride. The engine is 16v as well so is smoother with a 6 speed gearbox so more power, economy etc. I think the rear seats are more roomy in a 406 as well and easier to get in to due to roof line. Comparison between 136 sw and coupe, ignoring toys, the engine is in a different league in the coupe. Smooth, powerful and really easy to drive. Interestingly with the rear seats you have the same load length in the coupe as a sw, just not the height. I've taken old doors down the tip in it. The really big difference between old peugeots and new ones is the wiring etc. See recent threads about electrical gremlins, perhaps too clever?. I would not consider buying a newish peugeot without a manufacturers warranty, given if you have a problem before they will look at it they insist on a diagnostic check @£80. e.g. tyre pressure warning failure on 407. To fit new pressure sensor £180! £80 diagnostic, £55 parts, £20 computer reprogram, then fitting £25. Personaly I really like the 406 'cos it's not complicated. The coupe is great fun but just going to the shops is not as easy but for the open road can't be beaten. Which is why I have both.  SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > The really big difference between old peugeots and new ones is the wiring > etc. See recent threads about electrical gremlins, perhaps too clever?. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > new pressure sensor £180! £80 diagnostic, £55 parts, £20 computer > reprogram, then fitting £25. Which begs the question as to whether we could have an international response to pool data on the Peugeot EMS, and thus produce a program running on our PCs that will read the EMS for us? There's no doubt that we've all got the computer power at our fingertips (We're chatting on Usenet, aren't we?!); we merely lack some info and an interface cable. Impossible? No - That is what the Omitec company of Devizes UK do. They don't have confidential arrangements with most of the world's car manufacturers, but tamper with cars at one of the second-hand dealerships in order to reverse engineer the diagnostic codes. If one of the market leaders can do it, then we as an international forum can do it. I've already invented the product code .... "Peugeot Sorted" |
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