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Car Forum / Peugeot Cars / August 2008307sw 2004 battery draining?
Hi, My Car is a 307sw 110HDi 2004 pile of crap peugeot. 6 weeks ago the cooling fan wouldn't stop running until the battery was dead. 5 Weeks ago the boot struts stopped holding the boot up. 4 weeks ago the anti pollution fault error kept coming on. 3 weeks ago the Cam belt decided to go south taking £1500 worth of parts and labour with it! I got the car back this week and...... Today I have driven the car a few miles and then stopped. Everything seemed OK. Locked the car and there were no lights left on, Radio etc. A couple of hours later I have come back to the car and the battery is completely dead. I mean completely! The AA came out and jump started the car. There were no warning lights and I drove it around for about 40 minutes to give it a charge. I then went out to the car after about another 2 hours to find that it is completely drained again (to the point where there are no lights on the dash and it will not start pushing down the hill. I have taken the battery out but it is nearly too hot on the sides to handle even though the car has been stood for a few hours (The engine is still fairly hot though and it is a hot day). I am now charging the battery up in the house but my question is ... What could be causing it to drain down to nothing when the car is switched off and I am completely sure that nothing is running including the cooling fan? The AA man told me that the engine was charging the battery OK. Is there anything I can check with a volt metre when the car is switched off to see if it is draining the battery? And how? Cheers Lenny P.S. I notice it also needs 4 new tyres now too but I can't really blame Peugeot for that. :) click on this link and it should tell you all you need to find out what is using your battery power http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain GGJ > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > P.S. I notice it also needs 4 new tyres now too but I can't really blame > Peugeot for that. :) thanks GGJ I have followed those instructions but the Amp power shows 0.04 on my multimeter, well within the amps recommended when switched off. When the battery is connected to both the + and - and a volt meter it connected you can see the volts dropping 12.5, 12.4, 12.3 etc at about a point every few seconds. As soon as I disconnect the + it jumps up a bit and is steady. Another problem that I am also having but is probably not related is that the car will only rev to 2800 rpm. That is in all gears so it seems a bit sluggish the rest of the time too but that might just be my imagination. The Cam belt has just been renewed too but I didn't really notice any problem for the first week or so. > click on this link and it should tell you all you need to find out what is > using your battery power [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] >> P.S. I notice it also needs 4 new tyres now too but I can't really blame >> Peugeot for that. :) Try a new battery, i think the problem is there, if u took both leads of and put the tester on the batt and it dropped thats telling you that it needs replaceing.(i think iam right on this one??) Hi Chris, > Try a new battery, i think the problem is there, if u took both leads > of and put the tester on the batt and it dropped thats telling you that > it needs replaceing.(i think iam right on this one??) I'm coming a bit too late on this one. Possibly the battery has been drained too deeply on the faulty relay event (fans staying on), damaging the elements, which can't stand and keep the electric charge. I would replace the battery too. Moreover if it's the original one, 4 years ain't that bad. (the battery on my 206 is 6 years old, factory fit... I may be a bit lucky) Regards, -- G.T Slight mis-understanding here. When both battery terminal leads are taken off the battery it holds its charge with no problems. It is only when both connections are attached that it drops the charge constantly. To check what is causing this I have done an Amp test. If I leave the + on and take the minus terminal off to add a Amp Meter to the circuit (one wire from the amp meter to the Earth cable and one wire to the minus terminal this should tell me what Amps are being used up and that would be the reason why the battery is draining but the reading on the Amp Meter is 0.04 which is normal. > Hi Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > -- > G.T > Slight mis-understanding here. When both battery terminal leads are taken > off the battery it holds its charge with no problems. It is only when both [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that would be the reason why the battery is draining but the reading on > the Amp Meter is 0.04 which is normal. Just maybe worth confirming that you actually have 40 milliamps? These autoranging multimeters can be difficult to read on occasion. I note that my 306 Diesel has a draw of about 40 milliamps when everything is off. I've no idea where it goes - maybe the central locking remote receiver? Any other ideas? Julian. Hi, > I note that my 306 Diesel has a draw of about 40 milliamps when everything > is off. I've no idea where it goes - maybe the central locking remote > receiver? Any other ideas? I never tried such a measurement yet. Current goes to the radio memory, clock... and the central locking controller. And perhaps some other stuff I forgot to mention. Regards, -- G.T > Slight mis-understanding here. When both battery terminal leads are taken > off the battery it holds its charge with no problems. It is only when both [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that would be the reason why the battery is draining but the reading on > the Amp Meter is 0.04 which is normal. I may be wrong, I often am, but I thought that the Amp Meter should go between the Poss terminal on the battery and the Poss lead to check the power consumption at any given time, always providing that the Amp Meter will read up to about 50 amps, with the engine switched off of course. Bryan yes Bryan, you are wrong about this one. http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain >> Slight mis-understanding here. When both battery terminal leads are taken >> off the battery it holds its charge with no problems. It is only when [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Bryan > yes Bryan, you are wrong about this one. > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> Bryan As I said Lenny, it's not often I'm right, seems I'm wrong again. ;-) Bryan Actually, you are not completely wrong. You can measure the battery drain from the positive terminal of the battery but because there may be more than one cable (not in the same lug) coming from this terminal, it can be more of a problem to connect the ammeter in circuit to all cables. Because there is only one ground cable on the negative terminal of the battery it is far easier to connect the ammeter in series with this lead. That is why this method is usually recommended. :> yes Bryan, you are wrong about this one. :> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] : :Bryan > I may be wrong, I often am, but I thought that the Amp Meter should go > between the Poss terminal on the battery and the Poss lead to check the > power consumption at any given time, always providing that the Amp Meter > will read up to about 50 amps, with the engine switched off of course. Should not matter from an electrical perspective, the same current must flow in one lead and out the other.  Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk Hi, > Should not matter from an electrical perspective, the same current must flow > in one lead and out the other. Yeah. I suppose the "negative lead" mention is due to the risk of big short if you ever touch the + lead with the body / engine. Regards, -- G.T > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Yeah. I suppose the "negative lead" mention is due to the risk of big > short if you ever touch the + lead with the body / engine. Fair enough, if you break the -ve connection to do the test there is nothing to short against. Signaturehttp://www.petezilla.co.uk :Hi, : [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] : :Regards, Why will it matter if you remove the positive lead from the battery and drop it onto chassis? After all, the lead itself is not live - only the positive battery terminal is live wrt chassis. Hi, > Slight mis-understanding here. When both battery terminal leads are taken > off the battery it holds its charge with no problems. It is only when both And it holds for what time ? I'm still in doubt here, come back and tell us if you fixed your car. Regards, -- G.T still not sorted. The charge holder for ever (well for the 24 hours that I have left it anyway) when the plus terminal is disconnected but only the one hour at the most when it is connected. I have started to disconnect the plus everytime I stop. Oh, and the Anti Pollution error has arrived again with a drastic loss of power and the engine management light staying on. I have a feeling that this car is never going to be fixed! > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > G.T > still not sorted. The charge holder for ever (well for the 24 hours that I > have left it anyway) when the plus terminal is disconnected but only the > one hour at the most when it is connected. I have started to disconnect > the plus everytime I stop. Oh, and the Anti Pollution error has arrived > again with a drastic loss of power and the engine management light staying > on. I have a feeling that this car is never going to be fixed! I think you need a new battery. A discharge of about 40 milliamps for 24 hours should not cause a good battery any problems whatsoever. Julian. >> still not sorted. The charge holder for ever (well for the 24 hours that >> I have left it anyway) when the plus terminal is disconnected but only [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Julian. I would take it to a car electrician, you can keep on buying bits in the hope that you can fix it and never come up with the answer. Bryan It sounds its your battery so try and get new batt then go from there. I think some of you can't be reading the posts correctly or I haven't explained it properly (Which is probably more like it!) It isn't the battery that is faulty. It holds its charge just fine, for ever, when it isn't connected to the car. It only looses the charge when it is connected to both the plus and negative leads. Then it looses the charge in under an hour even though the Amp Meter reading shows normal. > It sounds its your battery so try and get new batt then go from there. :I think some of you can't be reading the posts correctly or I haven't :explained it properly (Which is probably more like it!) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] :is connected to both the plus and negative leads. Then it looses the charge :in under an hour even though the Amp Meter reading shows normal. How, exactly, are you determining that the battery "is just fine"? I charged it up and then left it unconnected for over 24 hours. I then placed it onto the car and it started without any problems, turning over fast and strong. If I charge it up fully and then connect it to the car straight away it has lost all its power within 90 minutes (when I say all its power I mean enough so that nothing at all comes on the dash board, the car will not start with a push down hill and there isn't even a spark when shorting the terminals. That is flat!) > :I think some of you can't be reading the posts correctly or I haven't > :explained it properly (Which is probably more like it!) [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > How, exactly, are you determining that the battery "is just fine"? :I charged it up and then left it unconnected for over 24 hours. I then :placed it onto the car and it started without any problems, turning over :fast and strong. This only proves that the battery is not self discharging due to an internal short. It may retain sufficient charge capacity to start the car once, but this is not a good test. When you re-connect the battery, just switch on the headlights without starting the car. If I am correct the lights will get dim very quickly. :If I charge it up fully and then connect it to the car straight away it has :lost all its power within 90 minutes (when I say all its power I mean enough :so that nothing at all comes on the dash board, the car will not start with :a push down hill and there isn't even a spark when shorting the terminals. :That is flat!) It should make no difference whether you charge the battery and immediately connect it to the car, or charge it, leave it disconnected overnight, and then re-connect it. In both cases, if the battery is stuffed, it will discharge if you just leave the car without trying to start it or anything. You have to carry out exactly the same test for both cases if you want to observe the true situation regarding discharge. My bet is that the battery is stuffed. It sounds to me that the batt is holding charge for you to use it once or maybe twice, then after that nothing,stating batt has had it..try and get a diff batt for a couple of days with it connected. Top posting is frowned upon but, as you have started, I will continue. The battery may still be defunct. Agreed after being off the car after charging it still turns the engine over, in your words, fast and strong. However, how long would it continue doing that for. One way of proving whether it is the battery or not would be to put it on another vehicle and see how long it lasts. Limiting factor is of course the availability of another car. The alternative, as suggested elsewhere, is to take it to a vehicle electrics specialist for testing, Ten to one they will find one cell is dead. SignatureKeith W Sunbury on Thames (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living) >I charged it up and then left it unconnected for over 24 hours. I then >placed it onto the car and it started without any problems, turning over [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> >> How, exactly, are you determining that the battery "is just fine"? Hi Keith, I don't know what top posting is. I bought a new battery yesterday and this morning I have arrived at the car to find it completely dead (The battery that is) So I can say 100% that although the other battery wasn't new it certainly isn't the battery that is the problem. Another wasted £70. I have a few error codes now too for all the other problems that I am having but have lost faith in all garages and electrical mechanics now. P1352 P1446 P1445 P1442 > Top posting is frowned upon but, as you have started, I will continue. > The battery may still be defunct. Agreed after being off the car after [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>> >>> How, exactly, are you determining that the battery "is just fine"? Hi, You'll find a list here : http://www.troublecodes.net/OBD2/Pcodes.shtml All these codes begin by P, so they are powertrain-related. As they are P1xxx, they are manufacturer-specific (d'oh !). This means they may not be the right ones, not matching your car (as you'll discover below) or whatever. > P1352 P1352 Ignition Coil A - Primary circuit fault. (I'm in doubt, you have a diesel. May there be a second meaning) > P1446 P1446 Evaporative Vac Solenoid Circuit Malfunction > P1445 P1445 Purge Flow Sensor circuit Input High. > P1442 Secondary Air Injection System Monitor circuit High Voltage. Give Google a try with something like "OBD code list". These codes are standardized. Regards, -- G.T Thanks for that GT. As you mention I believe that these might mean slightly different things on the 307 106hdi diesel car. P1446 Additive quantity; additive minimum level wait. That one would be correct because the additive minimum level error is on. ( I have recently refilled it but not yet had the ECU reset to show that it is now full) > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > -- > G.T Hi, > Thanks for that GT. As you mention I believe that these might mean slightly > different things on the 307 106hdi diesel car. Sure, I don't know where there's an ignition coil on these cars :-) > P1446 Additive quantity; additive minimum level wait. > That one would be correct because the additive minimum level error is on. > ( I have recently refilled it but not yet had the ECU reset to show that it > is now full) That makes sense. I guess the electronics doesn't allow additive to be injected in the particle filter if the minimum level alert is on - you should go and reset this one soon. Or find a way to reset it (but it may well be trivial, if not impossible without the diagbox). BTW, I found a better codes list at http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?content=Peugeot_citroen_fault_codes_em issions_P14XX, which includes the same specific explainations than yours, if of any help. Regards, -- G.T > Hi Keith, I don't know what top posting is. > > I bought a new battery yesterday and this morning I have arrived at the > car to find it completely dead (The battery that is) So I can say 100% > that although the other battery wasn't new it certainly isn't the battery > that is the problem. Another wasted £70. Try charging it up again and put it back in the car over night again, but this time DISCONNECT the Alternator and see if it goes flat again, if it does NOT go flat then it points to the diode in the alternator. If this is at fault it will be taking the power from your battery and sending it to earth. GGJ :> Hi Keith, I don't know what top posting is. :> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] : :GGJ It was established by the OP early in the saga that the battery drain when the charged battery was connected was in the order of 40mA. If the alternator diodes are faulty then the drain would instantly be much higher when the battery was connected - in the order of many amps. The fact that the new battery drains overnight suggests that the no-load current is not 40mA as the OP says it is, so this in turn begs the question, "is the measuring technique or the interpretation of the meter reading correct?" To summarise: If the ammeter is connected between chassis and the negative terminal of the battery (and there are no other leads connected to the negative terminal), while the car is sitting there doing nothing, and it genuinely reads 40mA, then the alternator diodes are not faulty. And if this is genuinely the case, then the battery can not drain overnight if it is fully charged and has its nominal rated capacity. For a Pug 307 the battery is nominally a 55Ahr rating which means it will sit there for months before the battery will self discharge to a point where no dashboard lamps will light. > It was established by the OP early in the saga that the battery drain when > the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > point > where no dashboard lamps will light. I entirely agree with the above. A good fully charged battery will not be discharged overnight by a 40mA drain, it's simply not possible. A few days ago I asked for confirmation from the OP that his measurement was indeed 40mA. The reason I asked was because the format of his original figure was not one that (say) an auto-ranging DMM provides, and I wondered if there was some mistake. There has not been a specific reply to my question yet.... Julian. Something very obvious must be being over looked here > I entirely agree with the above. A good fully charged battery will not be > discharged overnight by a 40mA drain, it's simply not possible. > Julian. > > Something very obvious must be being over looked here I agree, to run a fully charged battery down over night has got to be something with a large power usage, like a headlight, heated rear window, electric window motor, air con fans running. Its not going to anything like radio memory causing it. GGJ Hi, > like a headlight, heated rear window, electric window motor, air con fans > running. > Its not going to anything like radio memory causing it. I agree. All of these are visible or audible (fans, lights...) excepted one : remove the bulb(s) used for the trunk lighting. It may be a cause, and it was a common fault with some people : they go fishing, leave the boot opened, and in the evening, when they try to get back home, no power. HTH, -- G.T :Hi, : [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] : :HTH, Either a fan or headlight remaining on would be easily detectable but a trunk light would not be so evident. On the 307 the rear seats fold down so it would be easy to check whether a trunk lamp was permanently lit. Even if it were a trunk lamp it would take at least a few days to drain the battery, particularly where the vehicle is being driven periodically. I had a sedan once and a small panelbeating job had to be performed which involved adjustment of a trunk support strut. The repairer used an oxy torch to soften the strut to bend it before repainting the strut. He checked his adjustment by shutting the trunk immediately after the heat treatment and when he opened the lid the lamp was on as expected. But he failed to notice that the retained heat in the strut had melted the nylon plunger on the trunk lamp switch. When he closed the trunk lid again the plunger could no longer open the switch contact and the lamp remained on permanently without anyone being aware of this fact. It took about 8 days for the battery to go flat and I thought it was just the battery getting a bit old. I recharged the battery to get it started but again it was flat within a fortnight. Only then did I start some checking by measuring the standing current drain on the battery. It was over 500mA (6 Watts), which was abnormal, so I did some checking for lighted lamps. When I opened the trunk and felt the bulb immediately it appeared to be excessively hot for only being lit for a few seconds so I checked the switch and saw that the plunger was completely melted away. Hi Lenny. This is top posting. Now scroll down to the bottom. > Hi Keith, I don't know what top posting is. > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] >>>> >>>> How, exactly, are you determining that the battery "is just fine"? And this is bottom posting. Newsgroup etiquette is that you always bottom post so that the story flows and all postings finish up in sequence. Sorry to hear about your unnecessary expense on a battery. I really think you need to go to an autoelectrics specialist. If you are anywhere near north Surrey or south Middlesex, I can recommend Roy Autoelectrics in Hetherington Road,Charlton Village. Otherwise I think you need to use your Yellow Pages and find one. Good luck. SignatureKeith W Sunbury on Thames (If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living) Or the one in woking which are very helpfull,found then better than that lot over in Charlton Village, which could not find fault with my alternator.took it to the one in woking sprayed it inside and it lasted a few more months,got new one after that cheaper than the mob in charlton quoted me over £200, when i got one for £95 with 3 year wannerity on it . Lenny. Have you checked your ignition switch it might be in there that is giving you problems . remove it all so you have just got the end of the wire loom. so take it off the barrel might be problem that end one of the little bits inside where the key goes into has moved and crossed and thats draining your batt,(just a guess with out seeing the car and testing diff things) :still not sorted. The charge holder for ever (well for the 24 hours that I :have left it anyway) when the plus terminal is disconnected but only the one :hour at the most when it is connected. I have started to disconnect the plus :everytime I stop. Oh, and the Anti Pollution error has arrived again with a :drastic loss of power and the engine management light staying on. I have a :feeling that this car is never going to be fixed! If you are certain that the no load drain is only 40mA then this will not drain a good battery overnight. You also didn't say how you checked the battery after leaving it overnight with the leads disconnected. If you simply used a voltmeter and read 12V then you may have been lead astray. You cannot simply use a voltmeter to determine this fact. Even a flat battery which has only 40% of its capacity left will read 12V on a meter but it won't start the vehicle or light many lamps for very long. I would suggest that you fully charge the battery and leave it disconnected overnight and then connect it back up in the morning and then switch the headlights on. If the lamps become dim in a short time then you know your battery is definitely stuffed. On your Anti-pollution system fault? They can also display a De-pollution system fault - after all it is a diesel. Read the saga of Sgt. Doofey here http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42958&highlight=anti-pollution +system+fault Admittedly his diesel was a later model but the symptoms sound the same as yours. Get them to put a new exhasut pressure sensor in. Here is a UK saga for a similar model to yours (adi66) http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=50341 It seems his FAP wasn't being dosed with Eolys fluid due to a faulty reed switch on the fuel filler cap. The ECU wasn't able to sense the fuel tank refills and didn't get to dose the FAP and it clogged up. > Hi Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > (the battery on my 206 is 6 years old, factory fit... I may be a bit > lucky) Then I am even luckier. My 406 is 10 years old (from first registration) in January and is still on the original battery. I have expected it to die for the last four winters but it's kept on going. SignatureKeith W > > Hi Chris, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > (fans staying on), damaging the elements, which can't stand and keep the > > electric charge. Possibly worth calibrating the meter you are using - use a 120ohms resistor in series with the meter across the disconnected battery - should read 100mA. Regards Al The Heater Plug relay(attached to the outside of the under bonnet fuse box, just behind the front bulkhead) had burnt out. Replaced this and the car stopped loosing it's battery power over night, the warning light went off and the power came back again. > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > P.S. I notice it also needs 4 new tyres now too but I can't really blame > Peugeot for that. :) :The Heater Plug relay(attached to the outside of the under bonnet fuse box, :just behind the front bulkhead) had burnt out. Replaced this and the car :stopped loosing it's battery power over night, the warning light went off :and the power came back again. Did you find the cause of the problem by your own endeavours or did the garage find it? The garage certainly didn't find anything. A friend recommended a mobile auto electrician/mechanic who found it in 10 minutes. > :The Heater Plug relay(attached to the outside of the under bonnet fuse > box, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > garage > find it? :The garage certainly didn't find anything. A friend recommended a mobile :auto electrician/mechanic who found it in 10 minutes. I thought as much. Going on your description of the fault finding ability of the garage "mechanic" (?) I would have been extremely surprised if they had located the fault themselves. I bet you are very happy now that the fault has been found.and also put right,it is always the little things you never think of that give you the problems.(like females some times hahaah) Not yet, If past experience is anything to go by. Lets give it a week and see what error light appears next because you can nearly be sure one will. The car runs very nice when it is working properly though. >I bet you are very happy now that the fault has been found.and also put > right,it is always the little things you never think of that give you > the problems.(like females some times hahaah) |
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